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Post by paulpirate on Jan 22, 2018 21:43:40 GMT
clearly that overspending isn’t coming from the pitch because of the salary cap of 60%- it makes you question the whole set up of the club behind the pitch! Nothing’s changed at the mem and the service is still pretty average. Where does it go? By all accounts there has been an increase in backroom staff + development team + Clockwork Gorringe. Wages may have increased as per life in league one. IIRC the breakeven figure under the old board was around 9k, at last reckoning it was 15k(!), I guess all the above factors could account for that increase in running costs totalling 15k crowds every week. The problem is with no increased revenue streams on the horizon how is this need for 15k crowds going to be sustainable in the short term? if it was 15k that would put all l1 clubs in the sh** Just imagine if we had Rochdale or fleetwood crowds
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Post by madgas on Jan 22, 2018 21:44:44 GMT
2 points I want to pick up on... 1) We do actually offer one some of the cheapest tickets in this league. (Rightly so, the facilities are close to the worst). 2) The ‘gifting’ is not as straight forward as mentioned. Clubs ruled to break the rules suffer fines and transfer embargoes. Furthermore, ‘a gift’ is never truely a gift- yes, it is written off in the books, and by virtue no payment is due back. But an ‘on-the-pitch-return’ is expected. Throwing money is not necessarily a guarantee to success. Until we are profitable it is extremely unlikely that such a gift would be forthcoming. Take a gift of a million. What would that buy you? DC has quoted that top end players are asking for up to 6k. That will get you 2 years this player with 375k to buy them. That’s it. The strategy for this club has to longer term, has be about improving turnover and creating a profit. Those calling out for handouts are crazy. yeah like selling our best players for peanuts,they are really heading in the right direction No doubt that is one element we need to work on, but that is a different issue.
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Post by midlandgas213 on Jan 22, 2018 21:49:09 GMT
Here come the excuses for lack of signings
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Post by paulpirate on Jan 22, 2018 21:51:08 GMT
yeah like selling our best players for peanuts,they are really heading in the right direction No doubt that is one element we need to work on, but that is a different issue. it all helps,look what other clubs get for their best players I like wael seems a top bloke who loves football but he and all around him seem to know about as much as previous owners about making the club a success Hope I’m wrong,at the end of the day I go to watch our team win and if they do I’m happy all week We must be the must patient fans in the league by miles
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 22:19:13 GMT
How does a £1M plus loss convince you? How much do the others lose? Tell us? How many clubs at our level are operating at a profit? Of those that are, how many started from a baseline of near zero investment for 25 years (at least) Answers on a post card to..
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Post by Midsomer Murderer on Jan 22, 2018 22:31:13 GMT
I wore my American style flat cap to the Portsmouth match ~ and I got some admiring looks, I can tell you
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 22:46:45 GMT
2 points I want to pick up on... 1) We do actually offer one some of the cheapest tickets in this league. (Rightly so, the facilities are close to the worst). 2) The ‘gifting’ is not as straight forward as mentioned. Clubs ruled to break the rules suffer fines and transfer embargoes. Furthermore, ‘a gift’ is never truely a gift- yes, it is written off in the books, and by virtue no payment is due back. But an ‘on-the-pitch-return’ is expected. Throwing money is not necessarily a guarantee to success. Until we are profitable it is extremely unlikely that such a gift would be forthcoming. Take a gift of a million. What would that buy you? DC has quoted that top end players are asking for up to 6k. That will get you 2 years this player with 375k to buy them. That’s it. The strategy for this club has to longer term, has be about improving turnover and creating a profit. Those calling out for handouts are crazy. Even northern club Rochdale charge more for their terrace than Rovers do for the north and east terraces (over 60% of stadiums capacity That's why Rovers cant compete.
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Jan 22, 2018 22:48:39 GMT
To look at these 'average attendance required to break even' figures a little more closely:
Say it's an average £15 per head.
That's £225K per league game and a total revenue of £5.2 million a year.
The old board's break even figure of 9K would be £135K per game and a total revenue of £3.1 million a year.
That's a colossal difference considering we probably don't pay any more in players wages than we did 5 years or so ago.
Anyone know what our last annual wage bill was?
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Post by paulpirate on Jan 22, 2018 22:55:14 GMT
To look at these 'average attendance required to break even' figures a little more closely: Say it's an average £15 per head. That's £225K per league game and a total revenue of £5.2 million a year. The old board's break even figure of 9K would be £135K per game and a total revenue of £3.1 million a year. That's a colossal difference considering we probably don't pay any more in players wages than we did 5 years or so ago. Anyone know what our last annual wage bill was? we got a extra tent mind
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Post by gashead1981 on Jan 22, 2018 23:13:54 GMT
A salary cap can be increased if the directors gift the club the means in which to do so. Gift yes, but why should they. Its a business or should be like any other To keep people employed and a club moving forward.... Stupid, insignificant small reasons really.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 23:34:51 GMT
I’d day we are probably the joint 16th team in the league when I look at the clubs and my assumption of how big we are based on my limited knowledge of the clubs and their performances league wise and stadium progression and size etc during my lifetime so I don’t know why I expect so much! Got over excited about the Arabs and all the blue prints tbh. Not that I’d settle for that still of course! 🤪 come on you blues! 💙
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 23:39:05 GMT
As D.C. has stated he has lost out on players who have gone to other clubs over the wages (mostly) You could therefore look through all the players that have moved for free or undisclosed fees and guess which ones were targets. There are not that many non loan players so far that have moved.
Im sure somebody could probably put a list up.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 23:52:23 GMT
No doubt that is one element we need to work on, but that is a different issue. it all helps,look what other clubs get for their best players I like wael seems a top bloke who loves football but he and all around him seem to know about as much as previous owners about making the club a success Hope I’m wrong,at the end of the day I go to watch our team win and if they do I’m happy all week We must be the must patient fans in the league by miles So if we had stayed in the conference won most games and just missed out every season you would be happy? Were in league one much quicker than anyone could have imagined with lousy facilities and poor commercial revenue streams.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 23:54:12 GMT
How much do the others lose? Tell us? How many clubs at our level are operating at a profit? Of those that are, how many started from a baseline of near zero investment for 25 years (at least) Answers on a post card to.. The championship is the same most clubs losing large sums of money.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 23:58:33 GMT
To look at these 'average attendance required to break even' figures a little more closely: Say it's an average £15 per head. That's £225K per league game and a total revenue of £5.2 million a year. The old board's break even figure of 9K would be £135K per game and a total revenue of £3.1 million a year. That's a colossal difference considering we probably don't pay any more in players wages than we did 5 years or so ago. Anyone know what our last annual wage bill was? About £2m last season,this season more[probably 2.4m] but nowhere near the £4m wage budget the manager wanted.
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Post by Jomo on Jan 23, 2018 0:00:06 GMT
No doubt that is one element we need to work on, but that is a different issue. it all helps,look what other clubs get for their best players I like wael seems a top bloke who loves football but he and all around him seem to know about as much as previous owners about making the club a success Hope I’m wrong,at the end of the day I go to watch our team win and if they do I’m happy all week We must be the must patient fans in the league by miles I'm sure the fans of Oldham for example would disagree. How long since they last tasted a promotion? 30 years?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 0:53:34 GMT
To look at these 'average attendance required to break even' figures a little more closely: Say it's an average £15 per head. That's £225K per league game and a total revenue of £5.2 million a year. The old board's break even figure of 9K would be £135K per game and a total revenue of £3.1 million a year. That's a colossal difference considering we probably don't pay any more in players wages than we did 5 years or so ago. Anyone know what our last annual wage bill was? About £2m last season,this season more[probably 2.4m] but nowhere near the £4m wage budget the manager wanted. Sounds about right. The above calculation of £15 x 9300(fans) comes to £139,500. times that by the 23 league games you get £3,208,500. 60% of being £1,925,100. Doesn't include cup games. I suspect the average price paid is closer to £12. so £1,540,080 would be 60%.
then add in 60% max of all the other income streams
Clubs like Plymouth charge £21-£23 for adults and £16-£18 for seniors and are getting a few more through the gates than Rovers.
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Post by peterparker on Jan 23, 2018 6:16:38 GMT
Gift yes, but why should they. Its a business or should be like any other To keep people employed and a club moving forward.... Stupid, insignificant small reasons really. I think they are usually called directors loans, but you knew that
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Post by blueridge on Jan 23, 2018 6:44:50 GMT
How much do the others lose? Tell us? How many clubs at our level are operating at a profit? Of those that are, how many started from a baseline of near zero investment for 25 years (at least) Answers on a post card to.. So why did Investment Bankers take us over?
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Post by peterparker on Jan 23, 2018 8:06:58 GMT
some simplistic figures you/we can use to guestimate
2015 2016 Turnover 3,552,105 4,740,293 Players/Staff 2,805,682 3,601,892
also for some info Dwane Sports at 30 June 2016 had 'loaned' (obviously we don't know what will happen to this going forward) £6,211,355 to finance settlement of loans which is probably all part of the purchasing of the club and repaying the directors etc
s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-prod/docs/5zgFEDry-e6ctLGgnWxLvDKC_6oka-HSL67f4HwQpg0/application-pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=ASIAJ3KCVGCKK2BMAIYA&Expires=1516694357&Signature=%2Fws5qKi70azYDQB4tgziJFPGjAc%3D&x-amz-security-token=FQoDYXdzEEAaDGGWljVo8%2F9ihWSrkyK3AyIauiTY8ffRkKAN6jbAa0eQd5FEyJpvc3gTZRNiK3x%2FSjJPRmSzH9ApnOeYqihmDHSnR0YlYIXKfAJR8ECGFQp3%2BWbQ%2BDNBxImJ50Xqi9LW4EDJUtujvUMBnIdZEYrgYGJtf%2FPY97xLg1c%2Bl5u2gMVXnunTW4TPfdXmld1ctFG6lxqsnbxlRz%2FqVifIwIxCgYUupaw6ms0xp0%2BxoAA1YQXG11phibgu9M0zAyh0c6V9GErA9f4DU7E9EFEyQgLKDn2m6CFiypzGMbbctp%2BGq9GMtoB8mnV8uR8Fh6J6zhBtaVi6I%2Fz7Vr%2BqiQLpe%2B%2BtFvweGHMtT8qwgKaVCUokQg2FmeDtOuA6gjspGr5ocOS9WSJnh2o%2BFpBBauiF75A3%2FNEydeB9rknS5WWHKB5UXlQBo7uHBsNmRz6zHlt4WhJgBRGIRM1I3v7FU0vctcMAArdDh%2Bj0yElBDGU0nQcDjexiC2TY%2FYVXXWLIlupVEQ5oZEb%2BfeTGjd8YhrGV%2Ba0BLd%2B2%2FTQO5qPd2q0cijphTPH6k9uxUayGfrYnaM54vNbWINCOmBFLPuQKAJD%2FOLHZSj7Tmnmq198omr%2Bb0wU%3D
will be interesting not only to see the next set of accounts, but the staffing numbers etc that are also included
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