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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 14, 2018 8:42:34 GMT
Another suspicious death yesterday, the deadline for a response has now passed and the US Secretary of State sacked after publically backing us (although this has been brewing for some time and is most likely a coincidence).
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Post by baggins on Mar 14, 2018 12:58:13 GMT
And what exactly are we going to do about it?
Nothing.
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Post by William Wilson on Mar 14, 2018 12:59:28 GMT
There are two separate security reviews going on at the moment. I suspect an increase in the defence and cyber security budgets will be forthcoming. In terms of options, we are limited. Hopefully we can get allies on board for some further sanctions, maybe expel certain Embassy staff and restrict visas, plus seize assets in London. May looked very serious today and her language was as close to the diplomatic niceties as she could, short of saying it was an act of war. Can't say I would like to go to the World Cup, though. England`s new kit for the World Cup.  |
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Post by gasstrictband on Mar 14, 2018 14:55:19 GMT
I never believed in life after death till I saw Theresa May.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 18:31:10 GMT
So, my knowledge of Nerve Agents and all that malarky is just based on my NBC training while employed by Queen Liz, so I am no expert and my knowledge may be well out of date.
I've heard that Novichok is a 'persistent' agent. Basically, NA's fall into two categories, persistent or non-persistent. A non-persistent agent is one that when deployed, disappears pretty quickly. A persistent agent is one that say, falls to the ground and stays there for long periods, meaning people could still be affected a long time after the agent was deployed. I think this is the reason why we are still seeing a clean-up operation underway. Don't forget, in liquid form just one drop of this stuff on your skin can kill you, unless you are carrying something like Atropine which you inject into your thigh to counteract the agent, and to be fair Atropine is not the sort of stuff you can pick up at Boots. Oh, word of warning. If you do get hold of some Atropine, and you think you are under Nerve Agent attack, then please do use it. Be aware though, that if you do use it and you are not under Nerve Agent attack, the Atropine will probably kill you ! It's a dodgy game eh!
Did the Russians do it? Well, if they are innocent, wouldn't you think that they'd try to identify how the agent came to be used in the UK, and how someone got hold of it? Instead of ramping up International tension, don't you think they'd say, "hey, hold on. Let's work together to find out how this happened!". From the Russian reaction I don't think there is any doubt that they did this.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 18:32:06 GMT
I never believed in life after death till I saw Theresa May. Try going to Chaser's on a Friday night ! It's like an episode from the Walking Dead ! |
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Post by Russgas on Mar 14, 2018 18:55:43 GMT
And what exactly are we going to do about it? Nothing. Apparently we are... A number of Russian diplomats are set to be thrown out of the UK in response to the attempted murder of ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter in Salisbury. Theresa May has announced that 23 diplomats have a week to leave the country, making it the single biggest expulsion of diplomats for over 30 years. She described the diplomats as “undeclared intelligence officers”. The Prime Minister added the UK was suspending high-level contacts with Russia and that dignitaries, including members of the royal family, will not attend this summer’s World Cup. London had given Moscow until midnight on Wednesday to explain whether it was behind the attack or had lost control of the nerve agent used. The Russian Foreign Office refused to give a response unless it was given access to samples of the Novichok poison used. Full UK response to Salisbury attack:•23 Russian diplomats expelled. •Creating new power to detain those suspected of Hostile State Activity at the UK border. •Increase checks on private flights, customs and freight. •Freeze Russian State assets wherever we have the evidence that they may be used to threaten the life or property of UK nationals or residents. •Suspend all planned high level bi-lateral contacts between the UK and Russia, including revoking the invitation to Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov to visit to the UK. •No attendance by Ministers - or indeed Members of the Royal Family - at this Summer’s World Cup in Russia. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 19:08:09 GMT
Mmmm, Russgas.......is your username a giveaway? Is your real name Vladimir? Are you from Kolonostok (or somewhere like that)? Are you a real person, or are you a bot? I think we should be told.
The PM should have gone further.
Revoke all visas for any future Russians planning to visit the UK.
Freeze all Russian State assets in the UK. Don't bother with that 'threat to life or property' nonsense, just freeze them !
Don't increase checks on private flights etc, just ban the flights!
Should have expelled the whole Russian Embassy, including the Ambassador. If there are no Russians visiting the UK there is no need for an Embassy.
Should have broken off all Diplomatic relations with Russia.
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Post by William Wilson on Mar 14, 2018 19:13:03 GMT
Did the Russians do it? Well, if they are innocent, wouldn't you think that they'd try to identify how the agent came to be used in the UK, and how someone got hold of it? Instead of ramping up International tension, don't you think they'd say, "hey, hold on. Let's work together to find out how this happened!". From the Russian reaction I don't think there is any doubt that they did this. Why attempt to kill him now? He was in a Russian prison for four years. He could have disappeared then, faster than you can say Lavrenti Beria. There`s more to all this, than Putin ordering a hit on an ex spy. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 19:33:18 GMT
Did the Russians do it? Well, if they are innocent, wouldn't you think that they'd try to identify how the agent came to be used in the UK, and how someone got hold of it? Instead of ramping up International tension, don't you think they'd say, "hey, hold on. Let's work together to find out how this happened!". From the Russian reaction I don't think there is any doubt that they did this. Why attempt to kill him now? He was in a Russian prison for four years. He could have disappeared then, faster than you can say Lavrenti Beria. There`s more to all this, than Putin ordering a hit on an ex spy. It's a long-term thing. No point just making him disappear in prison. That doesn't achieve much. Use him in a spy swap, get some of your own people back, and then top him. Plus, the use of the NA was sending a loud, clear message. If you betray us, we will find you eventually. This was the message to all traitors. Secondly, it was a loud, clear message to all governments. We'll do what we want, and there is nothing you can do to stop us. The Russians KNEW that the NA would be identified. They wanted it to be identified. They want to World to know that they did this. Two weeks ago, Putin announced that they had new nuclear missiles that could not be intercepted. He then claimed that Russian were now the leading nuclear power in the world. Putin is flexing his muscles. He is using the UK to send a message to the US, the EU and to anyone who is listening, "don't feck with us". He has invaded the Crimea, the Ukraine and Georgia, and apart from a few letters written in a harsh font, nobody has done a thing to stop him. Two stories that have done the rounds over the years. In Lebanon, when people were getting kidnapped (Terry Waite etc), the first time a Russian was 'lifted' the Russians sent a Spatznet team into Lebanon, and they found the kidnappers, and killed every one they could find. No other Russians were kidnapped. The second story concerns Iran when they were holding the Americans in Tehran. Apparently, so the story goes, the Russian Ambassador went to see Ayatollah Whathisname, and while they were talking the Russian took off his watch, put it on the floor, and stamped on it, smashing it. He then told the Iranians that if they kidnapped any Russians that that is what would happen to one of their cities. No Russians were held by the Iranians. |
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Post by William Wilson on Mar 14, 2018 20:19:21 GMT
Why attempt to kill him now? He was in a Russian prison for four years. He could have disappeared then, faster than you can say Lavrenti Beria. There`s more to all this, than Putin ordering a hit on an ex spy. It's a long-term thing. No point just making him disappear in prison. That doesn't achieve much. Use him in a spy swap, get some of your own people back, and then top him. Plus, the use of the NA was sending a loud, clear message. If you betray us, we will find you eventually. This was the message to all traitors. Secondly, it was a loud, clear message to all governments. We'll do what we want, and there is nothing you can do to stop us. The Russians KNEW that the NA would be identified. They wanted it to be identified. They want to World to know that they did this. Two weeks ago, Putin announced that they had new nuclear missiles that could not be intercepted. He then claimed that Russian were now the leading nuclear power in the world. Putin is flexing his muscles. He is using the UK to send a message to the US, the EU and to anyone who is listening, "don't feck with us". He has invaded the Crimea, the Ukraine and Georgia, and apart from a few letters written in a harsh font, nobody has done a thing to stop him. You may well be right, but I still have doubts. I was planning a trip to the Crimea, for early September. A week in Yalta and a week in Balaklava, looking round Alma, Inkerman etc. It was going to be problematic enough before, but now? It`s about as likely as Benjamin Netanyahu converting to Islam. |
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Post by Russgas on Mar 14, 2018 20:30:45 GMT
Mmmm, Russgas.......is your username a giveaway? Is your real name Vladimir? Are you from Kolonostok (or somewhere like that)? Are you a real person, or are you a bot? I think we should be told. The PM should have gone further. Revoke all visas for any future Russians planning to visit the UK. Freeze all Russian State assets in the UK. Don't bother with that 'threat to life or property' nonsense, just freeze them ! Don't increase checks on private flights etc, just ban the flights! Should have expelled the whole Russian Embassy, including the Ambassador. If there are no Russians visiting the UK there is no need for an Embassy. Should have broken off all Diplomatic relations with Russia. Perhaps the PM can't/wont go further, ....she will not want to rock the boat too much in re to UK businesses and the stock market in particular. BP has a 20% stake in Russian oil,there are telecommunications companies etc and UK property holdings with vast amounts of Russian money involved. She has to be seen to do something,but maybe there is just to much at stake here. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 20:59:21 GMT
Mmmm, Russgas.......is your username a giveaway? Is your real name Vladimir? Are you from Kolonostok (or somewhere like that)? Are you a real person, or are you a bot? I think we should be told. The PM should have gone further. Revoke all visas for any future Russians planning to visit the UK. Freeze all Russian State assets in the UK. Don't bother with that 'threat to life or property' nonsense, just freeze them ! Don't increase checks on private flights etc, just ban the flights! Should have expelled the whole Russian Embassy, including the Ambassador. If there are no Russians visiting the UK there is no need for an Embassy. Should have broken off all Diplomatic relations with Russia. Perhaps the PM can't/wont go further, ....she will not want to rock the boat to much in re to UK businesses and the stock market in particular. BP has a 20% stake in Russian oil,there are telecommunications companies etc and UK property holdings with vast amounts of Russian money involved. She has to be seen to do something,but maybe there is just to much at stake here. She has been dealt a really tricky hand. She knows there will be a reaction from Vlad, but she cannot go too far, as saving face is a huge thing for him. She cannot push him too far as we just don't know what he will do in response. May has to balance retaliation with the risk of escalation. The Russians pride themselves on their ability to soak up punishment and return it with interest. Putin cannot afford to look weak. He will have to respond. May has to find a middle ground between hurting Putin enough to make him back off, without forcing him into a scenario where he does something really nasty just to save face.....I think. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 21:00:49 GMT
Why attempt to kill him now? He was in a Russian prison for four years. He could have disappeared then, faster than you can say Lavrenti Beria. There`s more to all this, than Putin ordering a hit on an ex spy. It's a long-term thing. No point just making him disappear in prison. That doesn't achieve much. Use him in a spy swap, get some of your own people back, and then top him. Plus, the use of the NA was sending a loud, clear message. If you betray us, we will find you eventually. This was the message to all traitors. Secondly, it was a loud, clear message to all governments. We'll do what we want, and there is nothing you can do to stop us. The Russians KNEW that the NA would be identified. They wanted it to be identified. They want to World to know that they did this. Two weeks ago, Putin announced that they had new nuclear missiles that could not be intercepted. He then claimed that Russian were now the leading nuclear power in the world. Putin is flexing his muscles. He is using the UK to send a message to the US, the EU and to anyone who is listening, "don't feck with us". He has invaded the Crimea, the Ukraine and Georgia, and apart from a few letters written in a harsh font, nobody has done a thing to stop him. Two stories that have done the rounds over the years. In Lebanon, when people were getting kidnapped (Terry Waite etc), the first time a Russian was 'lifted' the Russians sent a Spatznet team into Lebanon, and they found the kidnappers, and killed every one they could find. No other Russians were kidnapped. The second story concerns Iran when they were holding the Americans in Tehran. Apparently, so the story goes, the Russian Ambassador went to see Ayatollah Whathisname, and while they were talking the Russian took off his watch, put it on the floor, and stamped on it, smashing it. He then told the Iranians that if they kidnapped any Russians that that is what would happen to one of their cities. No Russians were held by the Iranians. I forgot to add that this was also a hit against MI6, as now who will want to sell them secrets if they know that MI6 cannot protect them? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 14, 2018 23:03:48 GMT
An elected leader turns dictator, uses a false grievence to reunite by force a disparate people and lands that were once theirs.
Their economy is weakened and he uses propaganda to strengthen his position including manufacturing enemies.
He then makes his opponents disappear or are killed off, anyone outspoken is a target. He also rebuilds his military.
Europe is divided and has cut defence because there is "no threat" of war, it simply cannot happen again.
The US had become isolationist. Britain is involved in a constitutional issue.
What year is it?
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Post by William Wilson on Mar 15, 2018 7:40:07 GMT
An elected leader turns dictator, uses a false grievence to reunite by force a disparate people and lands that were once theirs. Their economy is weakened and he uses propaganda to strengthen his position including manufacturing enemies. He then makes his opponents disappear or are killed off, anyone outspoken is a target. He also rebuilds his military. Europe is divided and has cut defence because there is "no threat" of war, it simply cannot happen again. The US had become isolationist. Britain is involved in a constitutional issue. What year is it? History repeating itself. I`ve just finished reading, "The noise of time", by Julian Barnes. It gives you a good idea of what it was like to live in the Soviet Union in the 30s. There were two types of people. Those who were afraid. And those who were dead. |
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Post by William Wilson on Mar 15, 2018 7:47:12 GMT
It's a long-term thing. No point just making him disappear in prison. That doesn't achieve much. Use him in a spy swap, get some of your own people back, and then top him. Plus, the use of the NA was sending a loud, clear message. If you betray us, we will find you eventually. This was the message to all traitors. Secondly, it was a loud, clear message to all governments. We'll do what we want, and there is nothing you can do to stop us. The Russians KNEW that the NA would be identified. They wanted it to be identified. They want to World to know that they did this. Two weeks ago, Putin announced that they had new nuclear missiles that could not be intercepted. He then claimed that Russian were now the leading nuclear power in the world. Putin is flexing his muscles. He is using the UK to send a message to the US, the EU and to anyone who is listening, "don't feck with us". He has invaded the Crimea, the Ukraine and Georgia, and apart from a few letters written in a harsh font, nobody has done a thing to stop him. Two stories that have done the rounds over the years. In Lebanon, when people were getting kidnapped (Terry Waite etc), the first time a Russian was 'lifted' the Russians sent a Spatznet team into Lebanon, and they found the kidnappers, and killed every one they could find. No other Russians were kidnapped. The second story concerns Iran when they were holding the Americans in Tehran. Apparently, so the story goes, the Russian Ambassador went to see Ayatollah Whathisname, and while they were talking the Russian took off his watch, put it on the floor, and stamped on it, smashing it. He then told the Iranians that if they kidnapped any Russians that that is what would happen to one of their cities. No Russians were held by the Iranians. I forgot to add that this was also a hit against MI6, as now who will want to sell them secrets if they know that MI6 cannot protect them? To be fair, it can`t be easy to protect an ex Russian spy, who chooses to live in an English community under his own name. He might as well have advertised his services in the Yellow Pages, under E for espionage. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 8:00:30 GMT
The Yellow Pages? You are so 1970's.
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Post by William Wilson on Mar 15, 2018 9:35:54 GMT
The Yellow Pages? You are so 1970's. Wait until flared trousers and kipper ties make a comeback. We`ll see who`s laughing then. |
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Post by baggins on Mar 15, 2018 11:12:50 GMT
The Yellow Pages? You are so 1970's. Wait until flared trousers and kipper ties make a comeback. We`ll see who`s laughing then. Everyone not wearing them. |
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