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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jun 2, 2019 13:39:56 GMT
Probably unintended, but I thought this statement from Al perfectly described the Leaver argument. "I completly agree Officer its exactly what I've been saying on this thread we have to come down on the side of reality because facing reality makes us stable even when we don't know what reality is." đď¸ââď¸ On the contrary Oldie that is my point we don't know the reality of Brexit or anything else until we do it. Its Remainers who know it will be awful because the fortune tellers, (journalists) have been giving predictions (opinions) I personally face the reality that we don't know because human beings can't predict the future no matter what the 'experts' on both sides say. Jounalists as if. More like Economic experts. Anyway, I personally I only trust the word of leave campaigners. That's why I'm expecting things to 'be a bit tricky for 30-50 years'. I'll be nice and dead by then so it matters not to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2019 17:49:24 GMT
On the contrary Oldie that is my point we don't know the reality of Brexit or anything else until we do it. Its Remainers who know it will be awful because the fortune tellers, (journalists) have been giving predictions (opinions) I personally face the reality that we don't know because human beings can't predict the future no matter what the 'experts' on both sides say. So, in summary, you are always in favour of making decisions, or taking an action, when you have no idea of what the outcome will be? So I guess you see no problem with taking out a mortgage at twice the value of your property, on the basis that the outcome of doing so cannot be predicted? Throwing it back at you Oldie......so, what is the endgame for the EU? What is going to happen with the EU? I bet you don't know. So, you are doing the exact same thing that you are claiming is wrong in that you support something where you don't know what is going to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2019 18:59:43 GMT
So, in summary, you are always in favour of making decisions, or taking an action, when you have no idea of what the outcome will be? So I guess you see no problem with taking out a mortgage at twice the value of your property, on the basis that the outcome of doing so cannot be predicted? Throwing it back at you Oldie......so, what is the endgame for the EU? What is going to happen with the EU? I bet you don't know. So, you are doing the exact same thing that you are claiming is wrong in that you support something where you don't know what is going to happen. I do believe that walking away from the largest trading block in the world, that ditching treaties with 60 other countries or groups of countries on top of that, cannot be anything but negative for our economy. To take a blind leap of faith into a world where we have a madman in the White House, a President who will tear up a treaty on a whim regardless, two fascists in Moscow and Beijing, is an act of vandalism. I would very much be willing to listen a well put together economic argument for doing the above, but I have not read one. Anywhere. As far as the future of the EU, they signed the death warrant to the original dreams of unity with the introduction of the Euro without a properly constituted Central Bank. Its inevitable (in my opinion of course) that the political pressures born of fiscal constraints will cause the Euro zone to shrink, leaving the periphery States in a different tier of membership. We could be at the centre of this necessary realignment. But no, it looks like we are to jump into a free fall, both economically and politically (internationally). And on what basis? some half assed vision by some gobby nationalists which does not stand up to any form of scrutiny or objective analysis. None of us can guarantee a future, but what we can do is obviate the very obvious risks.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 9:31:05 GMT
Throwing it back at you Oldie......so, what is the endgame for the EU? What is going to happen with the EU? I bet you don't know. So, you are doing the exact same thing that you are claiming is wrong in that you support something where you don't know what is going to happen. I do believe that walking away from the largest trading block in the world, that ditching treaties with 60 other countries or groups of countries on top of that, cannot be anything but negative for our economy. To take a blind leap of faith into a world where we have a madman in the White House, a President who will tear up a treaty on a whim regardless, two fascists in Moscow and Beijing, is an act of vandalism. I would very much be willing to listen a well put together economic argument for doing the above, but I have not read one. Anywhere. As far as the future of the EU, they signed the death warrant to the original dreams of unity with the introduction of the Euro without a properly constituted Central Bank. Its inevitable (in my opinion of course) that the political pressures born of fiscal constraints will cause the Euro zone to shrink, leaving the periphery States in a different tier of membership. We could be at the centre of this necessary realignment. But no, it looks like we are to jump into a free fall, both economically and politically (internationally). And on what basis? some half assed vision by some gobby nationalists which does not stand up to any form of scrutiny or objective analysis. None of us can guarantee a future, but what we can do is obviate the very obvious risks. No one is walking away from any trading bloc. Trade will still go on. A madman in the White House? He is the first US President who hasn't started a war since....(take your pick). You admit the EU is heading towards a breakdown, and you still think it would be good to be a part of that? Wow ! Gobby Nationalists........nice.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 3, 2019 10:02:31 GMT
I do believe that walking away from the largest trading block in the world, that ditching treaties with 60 other countries or groups of countries on top of that, cannot be anything but negative for our economy. To take a blind leap of faith into a world where we have a madman in the White House, a President who will tear up a treaty on a whim regardless, two fascists in Moscow and Beijing, is an act of vandalism. I would very much be willing to listen a well put together economic argument for doing the above, but I have not read one. Anywhere. As far as the future of the EU, they signed the death warrant to the original dreams of unity with the introduction of the Euro without a properly constituted Central Bank. Its inevitable (in my opinion of course) that the political pressures born of fiscal constraints will cause the Euro zone to shrink, leaving the periphery States in a different tier of membership. We could be at the centre of this necessary realignment. But no, it looks like we are to jump into a free fall, both economically and politically (internationally). And on what basis? some half assed vision by some gobby nationalists which does not stand up to any form of scrutiny or objective analysis. None of us can guarantee a future, but what we can do is obviate the very obvious risks. No one is walking away from any trading bloc. Trade will still go on. A madman in the White House? He is the first US President who hasn't started a war since....(take your pick). You admit the EU is heading towards a breakdown, and you still think it would be good to be a part of that? Wow ! Gobby Nationalists........nice. Willfully making it harder by quite a magnitude. Nixon*, Ford, Carter? Give him time. Realignment, something I have mentioned too. *Depends whether Laos and Camodia were an extension to the existing Vietnam war or separate.
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Post by peterparker on Jun 3, 2019 10:46:29 GMT
I do believe that walking away from the largest trading block in the world, that ditching treaties with 60 other countries or groups of countries on top of that, cannot be anything but negative for our economy. To take a blind leap of faith into a world where we have a madman in the White House, a President who will tear up a treaty on a whim regardless, two fascists in Moscow and Beijing, is an act of vandalism. I would very much be willing to listen a well put together economic argument for doing the above, but I have not read one. Anywhere. As far as the future of the EU, they signed the death warrant to the original dreams of unity with the introduction of the Euro without a properly constituted Central Bank. Its inevitable (in my opinion of course) that the political pressures born of fiscal constraints will cause the Euro zone to shrink, leaving the periphery States in a different tier of membership. We could be at the centre of this necessary realignment. But no, it looks like we are to jump into a free fall, both economically and politically (internationally). And on what basis? some half assed vision by some gobby nationalists which does not stand up to any form of scrutiny or objective analysis. None of us can guarantee a future, but what we can do is obviate the very obvious risks. No one is walking away from any trading bloc. Trade will still go on. A madman in the White House? He is the first US President who hasn't started a war since....(take your pick). You admit the EU is heading towards a breakdown, and you still think it would be good to be a part of that? Wow ! Gobby Nationalists........nice. no he hasn't started a war (yet), just threatend to wipe Iran off the map
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 10:54:45 GMT
No one is walking away from any trading bloc. Trade will still go on. A madman in the White House? He is the first US President who hasn't started a war since....(take your pick). You admit the EU is heading towards a breakdown, and you still think it would be good to be a part of that? Wow ! Gobby Nationalists........nice. no he hasn't started a war (yet), just threatend to wipe Iran off the map But, he hasn't started a war.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 3, 2019 11:03:29 GMT
no he hasn't started a war (yet), just threatend to wipe Iran off the map But, he hasn't started a war. Do trade wars count?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 11:04:43 GMT
But, he hasn't started a war. Do trade wars count? Nope.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 3, 2019 11:20:41 GMT
Of itself I agree, but if handled baldly will set in motion the causes of one. The parallels with the 1930s is uncanny.
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Post by althepirate on Jun 3, 2019 11:41:42 GMT
On the contrary Oldie that is my point we don't know the reality of Brexit or anything else until we do it. Its Remainers who know it will be awful because the fortune tellers, (journalists) have been giving predictions (opinions) I personally face the reality that we don't know because human beings can't predict the future no matter what the 'experts' on both sides say. So, in summary, you are always in favour of making decisions, or taking an action, when you have no idea of what the outcome will be? So I guess you see no problem with taking out a mortgage at twice the value of your property, on the basis that the outcome of doing so cannot be predicted? No Oldie we all take calculated risks not wreckless ones, you know that you little tease đ
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 11:48:35 GMT
So, in summary, you are always in favour of making decisions, or taking an action, when you have no idea of what the outcome will be? So I guess you see no problem with taking out a mortgage at twice the value of your property, on the basis that the outcome of doing so cannot be predicted? No Oldie we all take calculated risks not wreckless ones, you know that you little tease đ So is leaving the EU "calculated? You think?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 11:52:53 GMT
No Oldie we all take calculated risks not wreckless ones, you know that you little tease đ So is leaving the EU "calculated? You think? Oldie - Your calculation says that the EU is heading towards meltdown, and you think we should be part of that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 11:55:37 GMT
So is leaving the EU "calculated? You think? Oldie - Your calculation says that the EU is heading towards meltdown, and you think we should be part of that. If you are going to quote me, them use my words. Let Al answer, he talks about taking calculated risks, which I agree with. So, Al, is leaving the EU calculated?
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Post by althepirate on Jun 3, 2019 12:11:04 GMT
Oldie - Your calculation says that the EU is heading towards meltdown, and you think we should be part of that. If you are going to quote me, them use my words. Let Al answer, he talks about taking calculated risks, which I agree with. So, Al, is leaving the EU calculated? Of course my friend a greater risk is we may beaten up and abused by the Liberal Dictators if we make a decision which is different to them. Oh yes I almost forgot we are all racists, nice group of people those Liberals
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Post by peterparker on Jun 3, 2019 12:38:23 GMT
So is leaving the EU "calculated? You think? Oldie - Your calculation says that the EU is heading towards meltdown, and you think we should be part of that. but we aren't in the Eurozone
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 12:40:14 GMT
If you are going to quote me, them use my words. Let Al answer, he talks about taking calculated risks, which I agree with. So, Al, is leaving the EU calculated? Of course my friend a greater risk is we may beaten up and abused by the Liberal Dictators if we make a decision which is different to them. Oh yes I almost forgot we are all racists, nice group of people those Liberals Leaving out the silliness, Is leaving the EU a calculated risk? Yes/No?
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 3, 2019 12:44:25 GMT
Did anyone see Ian Hislop's comments on HIGNFY last week?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 12:46:13 GMT
Did anyone see Ian Hislop's comments on HIGNFY last week? Remind us?
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 3, 2019 12:57:58 GMT
Did anyone see Ian Hislop's comments on HIGNFY last week? Remind us? His comments on Boris were bleeped out for legal reasons and he described WTO as rather than taking back control, we say we give up.
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