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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 1, 2018 14:31:47 GMT
There is no such thing as an unbiased news outlet.
What they should do is take the shackles off all news and allow to "report" as it chooses but by law have them disclose their bias.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 14:37:38 GMT
I don't think anybody has had a problem with Europeans coming to the UK and working. Really? Immigration was not a major theme? Control of our borders, etc. Of course Immigration was a major point, but it wasn't about people who actually worked. It was more to do with the ones that arrive just to claim benefits ! Yes, controlling the borders and allowing people with needed skills to come, while keeping out the wasters was a major talking point.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 14:39:13 GMT
Personally I always listen to people like him and left frustrated because he states a case but doesn't make it. Take the first 8 minutes of this video. He bangs on about CNN, and in fact he is largely correct, they are biased. As is Fox etc. So surely the onus is on us, the general population, to challenge and not accept things on face value. Which loops us back to Brexit. False statements on all sides at the point of voting. Now as facts emerge the challenge is to pro Brexit folks to answer and make the case. But they never do. Because they cannot. So the Sun, Express and the Mail does it for them with thundering headlines of no value and people actually believe it. When you challenge that you get the usual "oh, you are a guardian reader" as if that's a bad thing. I would challenge anyone to buy an issue of the Guardian and one of the three mentioned and do a side by side, like for like comparison. You could not, the depth of analysis and well argued opinion in any of those three is so shallow you would be unable to find it. I get what you are saying, I don't think that he is trying to make a case. He's just trying to offer up some starting points for people to go away and think for themselves. I am not sure that is his intention, but that most certainly would be a good outcome
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 14:43:07 GMT
Really? Immigration was not a major theme? Control of our borders, etc. Of course Immigration was a major point, but it wasn't about people who actually worked. It was more to do with the ones that arrive just to claim benefits ! Yes, controlling the borders and allowing people with needed skills to come, while keeping out the wasters was a major talking point. So we, by treaty, allowed circa 1.5 million people to migrate to the UK since 2005. Remind me, what is the unemployment rate in total, as a %? Record lows I hear you say, correctly. So pray, explain, where are those 1.5m on the unemployed register?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 14:45:44 GMT
Of course Immigration was a major point, but it wasn't about people who actually worked. It was more to do with the ones that arrive just to claim benefits ! Yes, controlling the borders and allowing people with needed skills to come, while keeping out the wasters was a major talking point. So we, by treaty, allowed circa 1.5 million people to migrate to the UK since 2005. Remind me, what is the unemployment rate in total, as a %? Record lows I hear you say, correctly. So pray, explain, where are those 1.5m on the unemployed register? You will always have a base number of unemployed. The reality is that the vast majority of those people are either unemployable, or have no intention of being employed!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 14:54:58 GMT
So we, by treaty, allowed circa 1.5 million people to migrate to the UK since 2005. Remind me, what is the unemployment rate in total, as a %? Record lows I hear you say, correctly. So pray, explain, where are those 1.5m on the unemployed register? You will always have a base number of unemployed. The reality is that the vast majority of those people are either unemployable, or have no intention of being employed! I agree with you. But back to your contention that immigrants came here, or enough do to cause concern, to claim benefits. How is that reflected in the unemployment statistics?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 15:03:21 GMT
You will always have a base number of unemployed. The reality is that the vast majority of those people are either unemployable, or have no intention of being employed! I agree with you. But back to your contention that immigrants came here, or enough do to cause concern, to claim benefits. How is that reflected in the unemployment statistics? No idea. I'd rather use my own eyes and listen to the experiences of real people than concentrate on unemployment figures.
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Post by williambloke on Aug 1, 2018 17:24:01 GMT
I'm confused. Are immigrants taking all our jobs or all our benefits?
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 1, 2018 17:46:14 GMT
I'm confused. Are immigrants taking all our jobs or all our benefits? Both. Send them all home. Except the ones we want. They can stay. We like those ones.
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Post by jaggas on Aug 1, 2018 18:21:20 GMT
43 years on and project fear is the same now as it was then.Peter Shore a Labour politician had it bang on and his words ring true now.
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Post by jaggas on Aug 1, 2018 18:45:32 GMT
It's a bit difficult for me to surround myself with like-minded people, as a lot of Germans are against Brexit, including my dear wife. In fact, we avoid talking about Brexit now, as it is obvious that your average German hasn't a clue about the EU and how it operates. In Germany, not once have the people been asked about anything regarding the EU. Everything has been done by the politicians without any mandate from the people. Replacing the Deutschmark with the Euro? It just happened. The point I am trying to make is that there has never been a serious debate within Germany regarding the EU. The one thing that has come out of the whole Brexit issue is that I think the British have a greater understanding of the EU, compared to most other countries in the EU. As an example, most Germans think that the EU Parliament make all the decisions! They don't ask questions, they don't probe, they just follow what their 'leaders' tell them to do....even to this day. My feedback from friends who are nationals of other EU countries is that they are more likely to see themselves as European and happy to do so. The lack of "connection" with their national governments just highlights the issues with national democratic institutions. It's exactly the same in the UK. I would argue that UK nationals have no more an understanding of the workings of the EU than any other country. What we do have is virulent anti EU press, which is just quoted verbatim by Brexiteers. Exactly in the manner Stuart has indicated in his post. What countries would these be Oldie? I am sure if the UK was a country that was subsidised by more successful richer nations because we were poor we would think the EU is great and wouldn`t understand the fuss if a country that subsidised every other country were fed up with it and wanted out......We holiday in Portugal every year and have done for the last 15 years for 2 weeks over the whitsun period.A couple of years ago just before the referendum while in Portugal many people were talking about the referendum and the Portugese folk had no idea that all the EU investment into Portugal came from UK and German taxpayers and for paying all that money in the UK was told what it could and couldn`t do regarding fishing, farming,driving and many other things...........Why would people like your friends living in one of 26 nations that are subsidised by the UK wonder what all the fuss is about when they are not paying?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 18:49:03 GMT
For diabetics amongst us, Type 1 specifically, there is no insulin produced in the UK. So we import from the EU. After March 19, as it stands, imports will be held up for customs checks. Good innit. Is there some licensing arrangement with the pharmaceutical industry that only EU countries can produce insulin? If not we can presumably import from elsewhere?
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Aug 1, 2018 18:50:43 GMT
I don't think anybody has had a problem with Europeans coming to the UK and working. Really? Immigration was not a major theme? Control of our borders, etc. It was a major theme but is suspect a lot of leavers voted to keep out Somalians and Syrians. Get your head round that.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Aug 1, 2018 18:51:45 GMT
Really? Immigration was not a major theme? Control of our borders, etc. Of course Immigration was a major point, but it wasn't about people who actually worked. It was more to do with the ones that arrive just to claim benefits ! Yes, controlling the borders and allowing people with needed skills to come, while keeping out the wasters was a major talking point. who is arriving and Just claiming benefits then how does that work? Because when my foreign wife finished uni she couldn't get a penny in benefits until she had a job.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 19:00:25 GMT
For diabetics amongst us, Type 1 specifically, there is no insulin produced in the UK. So we import from the EU. After March 19, as it stands, imports will be held up for customs checks. Good innit. Is there some licensing arrangement with the pharmaceutical industry that only EU countries can produce insulin? If not we can presumably import from elsewhere? Of course. China as has already been pointed out and under WTO rules and tariffs. Given what happened when we went "cheap" in the 70s and 80s with blood products, you trust that??
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 19:01:17 GMT
Really? Immigration was not a major theme? Control of our borders, etc. It was a major theme but is suspect a lot of leavers voted to keep out Somalians and Syrians. Get your head round that. I know. We know what that is don't we
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 19:04:01 GMT
My feedback from friends who are nationals of other EU countries is that they are more likely to see themselves as European and happy to do so. The lack of "connection" with their national governments just highlights the issues with national democratic institutions. It's exactly the same in the UK. I would argue that UK nationals have no more an understanding of the workings of the EU than any other country. What we do have is virulent anti EU press, which is just quoted verbatim by Brexiteers. Exactly in the manner Stuart has indicated in his post. What countries would these be Oldie? I am sure if the UK was a country that was subsidised by more successful richer nations because we were poor we would think the EU is great and wouldn`t understand the fuss if a country that subsidised every other country were fed up with it and wanted out......We holiday in Portugal every year and have done for the last 15 years for 2 weeks over the whitsun period.A couple of years ago just before the referendum while in Portugal many people were talking about the referendum and the Portugese folk had no idea that all the EU investment into Portugal came from UK and German taxpayers and for paying all that money in the UK was told what it could and couldn`t do regarding fishing, farming,driving and many other things...........Why would people like your friends living in one of 26 nations that are subsidised by the UK wonder what all the fuss is about when they are not paying? Mainly, France, Holland, Belgium and a few in Germany. Does that answer your question?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 19:06:14 GMT
I agree with you. But back to your contention that immigrants came here, or enough do to cause concern, to claim benefits. How is that reflected in the unemployment statistics? No idea. I'd rather use my own eyes and listen to the experiences of real people than concentrate on unemployment figures. Ha ha ha. Classic. The numbers don't support my argument so I will make it up. Trump would love you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 19:11:34 GMT
I'm confused. Are immigrants taking all our jobs or all our benefits? Virtually none of our benefits. The comment by the owners of the hotel in Stratford on Avon is a fair reflection of the reality on jobs. Unless of course you have evidence to the contrary?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 19:24:22 GMT
Is there some licensing arrangement with the pharmaceutical industry that only EU countries can produce insulin? If not we can presumably import from elsewhere? Of course. China as has already been pointed out and under WTO rules and tariffs. Given what happened when we went "cheap" in the 70s and 80s with blood products, you trust that?? Yes I do have trust. I make that statement despite being on permanent medical treatment through eight weekly intravenous infusions and three other daily drugs so totally take this issue seriously and not use it as a political football. I have total belief that anything imported from outside your beloved EU will be of adequate standard.
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