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Post by Officer Barbrady on Oct 1, 2020 11:09:09 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong eric, aren't they doing this because we broke the agreement you voted for? In terms of 'punishment', surely you didn't believe that when we left we would be afforded all the same privileges as members? I didn’t expect us to be able to cherry pick any benefits of EU membership and retain those the same as the poor buggers left in. I didn’t necessarily expect them to be so obstructive to the point where they will damage the trading abilities of their remaining states to give us our just desserts. I dont know, I see most of this as fairly predicable, albeit dismissed early on as 'project fear'. It would be naive to think that they wouldn't do anything to protect against further membership losses dont you think? 'I didnt expect leopards to eat MY face' sobs woman who voted for Leopards eating faces party.
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Post by peterparker on Oct 1, 2020 11:12:46 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong eric, aren't they doing this because we broke the agreement you voted for? In terms of 'punishment', surely you didn't believe that when we left we would be afforded all the same privileges as members? I didn’t expect us to be able to cherry pick any benefits of EU membership and retain those the same as the poor buggers left in. I didn’t necessarily expect them to be so obstructive to the point where they will damage the trading abilities of their remaining states to give us our just desserts. lol. The Eu have dozens of Trade Agreements. Will are but a small part. Right now an EU Trade deal is a bigger thing for The UK than the other way around, whatever the Bravado of Digby Jones and German Car Manufactures demanding a deal. Meanwhile it seems the UK are slowly conceding on fishing and Car Parts etc. So if a deal is signed who is losing out?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2020 11:16:17 GMT
I didn’t expect us to be able to cherry pick any benefits of EU membership and retain those the same as the poor buggers left in. I didn’t necessarily expect them to be so obstructive to the point where they will damage the trading abilities of their remaining states to give us our just desserts. I dont know, I see most of this as fairly predicable, albeit dismissed early on as 'project fear'. It would be naive to think that they wouldn't do anything to protect against further membership losses dont you think? 'I didnt expect leopards to eat MY face' sobs woman who voted for Leopards eating faces party. If the EU has evolved to the point where they are effectively holding member states prisoner do you think that is a good thing? I’m not sure I ever want to be part of an organisation that works in that manner. Surely a better position is where there are so many positives to membership that nobody would ever consider leaving in the first place? Like I’ve said before if it had remained a purely trading organisation then there would never have been a referendum in the first place.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Oct 1, 2020 11:35:35 GMT
I dont know, I see most of this as fairly predicable, albeit dismissed early on as 'project fear'. It would be naive to think that they wouldn't do anything to protect against further membership losses dont you think? 'I didnt expect leopards to eat MY face' sobs woman who voted for Leopards eating faces party. If the EU has evolved to the point where they are effectively holding member states prisoner do you think that is a good thing? I’m not sure I ever want to be part of an organisation that works in that manner. Surely a better position is where there are so many positives to membership that nobody would ever consider leaving in the first place? Like I’ve said before if it had remained a purely trading organisation then there would never have been a referendum in the first place. who are they holding prisoner sorry?
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 1, 2020 11:46:16 GMT
I dont know, I see most of this as fairly predicable, albeit dismissed early on as 'project fear'. It would be naive to think that they wouldn't do anything to protect against further membership losses dont you think? 'I didnt expect leopards to eat MY face' sobs woman who voted for Leopards eating faces party. If the EU has evolved to the point where they are effectively holding member states prisoner do you think that is a good thing? I’m not sure I ever want to be part of an organisation that works in that manner. Surely a better position is where there are so many positives to membership that nobody would ever consider leaving in the first place? Like I’ve said before if it had remained a purely trading organisation then there would never have been a referendum in the first place. Still not sure which bits were a problem but that is a moot point now. If we are looking at a simple trade deal, what do we want? Presumably something that protects jobs so that means minimum standards, no tariffs or quotas and an acceptable arbitration body. Sounds simple.
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Post by baggins on Oct 1, 2020 12:14:37 GMT
If the EU has evolved to the point where they are effectively holding member states prisoner do you think that is a good thing? I’m not sure I ever want to be part of an organisation that works in that manner. Surely a better position is where there are so many positives to membership that nobody would ever consider leaving in the first place? Like I’ve said before if it had remained a purely trading organisation then there would never have been a referendum in the first place. Still not sure which bits were a problem but that is a moot point now. If we are looking at a simple trade deal, what do we want? Presumably something that protects jobs so that means minimum standards, no tariffs or quotas and an acceptable arbitration body. Sounds simple. We'll be fine.
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Post by devonblue on Oct 1, 2020 21:17:22 GMT
Brexshit really does mean Brexshit
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2020 8:56:59 GMT
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Post by trevorgas on Oct 2, 2020 9:11:30 GMT
The consensus even ineed Brussels is that yesterday's action was purely administrative as they had 30 days to lodge at the appropriate Court. Also it takes years for case's of this sort to come before the European Court and even if that happens it is unlikely that any sanction would be enforceable as we are outside the Courts jurisdiction .
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Post by baggins on Oct 2, 2020 11:48:32 GMT
The consensus even ineed Brussels is that yesterday's action was purely administrative as they had 30 days to lodge at the appropriate Court. Also it takes years for case's of this sort to come before the European Court and even if that happens it is unlikely that any sanction would be enforceable as we are outside the Courts jurisdiction . How does that work then? You can break binding contracts but not answer to any law?
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 2, 2020 11:57:48 GMT
The consensus even ineed Brussels is that yesterday's action was purely administrative as they had 30 days to lodge at the appropriate Court. Also it takes years for case's of this sort to come before the European Court and even if that happens it is unlikely that any sanction would be enforceable as we are outside the Courts jurisdiction . How does that work then? You can break binding contracts but not answer to any law? Nobody has broken the law yet. The bill, if passed, will only come into effect if no agreement is reached. The letter from the EU is not yet formal proceedings but requesting a response first. It's just a game at the moment, both are threatening each other with hypotheticals as a prelude to a compromise they can sell to their own constituents. Unless Boris really does want a no deal then something will give on both sides by 15 October.
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Post by baggins on Oct 2, 2020 12:00:52 GMT
How does that work then? You can break binding contracts but not answer to any law? Nobody has broken the law yet. The bill, if passed, will only come into effect if no agreement is reached. The letter from the EU is not yet formal proceedings but requesting a response first. It's just a game at the moment, both are threatening each other with hypotheticals as a prelude to a compromise they can sell to their own constituents. Unless Boris really does want a no deal then something will give on both sides by 15 October. I see. Sort of. Does that essentially mean, we go up against the entire EU, in court, should we get worst case scenario?
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 2, 2020 12:36:24 GMT
Nobody has broken the law yet. The bill, if passed, will only come into effect if no agreement is reached. The letter from the EU is not yet formal proceedings but requesting a response first. It's just a game at the moment, both are threatening each other with hypotheticals as a prelude to a compromise they can sell to their own constituents. Unless Boris really does want a no deal then something will give on both sides by 15 October. I see. Sort of. Does that essentially mean, we go up against the entire EU, in court, should we get worst case scenario? As I understand it, yes. In that scenario I'd have thought we'd simply say we don't feel we are bound by the ECJ as a third party and present more theatrics. All whilst still trying to do deals both with the EU and world wide. It's not a good look, even if it doesn't come to pass, others will be wary that we are even contemplating reneging on an agreement freely entered into especially by those who actually supported it in the first place.
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Post by baggins on Oct 2, 2020 12:39:30 GMT
I see. Sort of. Does that essentially mean, we go up against the entire EU, in court, should we get worst case scenario? As I understand it, yes. In that scenario I'd have thought we'd simply say we don't feel we are bound by the ECJ as a third party and present more theatrics. All whilst still trying to do deals both with the EU and world wide. It's not a good look, even if it doesn't come to pass, others will be wary that we are even contemplating reneging on an agreement freely entered into especially by those who actually supported it in the first place. No post Brexit deals and a good chance we'll get done in court for breaking the law? We'll be fine.
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 2, 2020 12:41:07 GMT
As I understand it, yes. In that scenario I'd have thought we'd simply say we don't feel we are bound by the ECJ as a third party and present more theatrics. All whilst still trying to do deals both with the EU and world wide. It's not a good look, even if it doesn't come to pass, others will be wary that we are even contemplating reneging on an agreement freely entered into especially by those who actually supported it in the first place. No post Brexit deals and a good chance we'll get done in court for breaking the law? We'll be fined. Fixed, free of charge.
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Post by baggins on Oct 2, 2020 12:43:16 GMT
No post Brexit deals and a good chance we'll get done in court for breaking the law? We'll be fined. Fixed, free of charge. Still, Christmas just round the corner.
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 2, 2020 14:00:15 GMT
From today's FT: "Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president, is to hold talks with Boris Johnson on Saturday following an inconclusive round of trade negotiations in Brussels. The two sides will speak on the phone following the final scheduled round of future relationship talks, due to wrap up on Friday afternoon, with time for a deal growing short and progress in the discussions still uneven. EU officials said Brussels had received mixed messages from the UK this week, with progress in some areas such as EU access to British fishing waters but a continued lack of momentum on the critical issue of state aid." www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/e1e457a7-e464-4db2-adb5-1504a91e0eafSo progress on fishing but still none yet on state aid, neither of which is usually a concern to the Conservative Party. Be fun (?) to see what Macron does if the fishing side is not sufficient from a French point of view with Presidential elections in 2022.
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 2, 2020 14:03:43 GMT
Still, Christmas just round the corner. Will Father Christmas need to wear PPE and can we still leave out a mince pie for him?
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Post by matealotblue on Oct 2, 2020 14:08:46 GMT
Still, Christmas just round the corner. Will Father Christmas need to wear PPE and can we still leave out a mince pie for him? Does he need a Grotto this year.....?
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Post by trevorgas on Oct 2, 2020 15:51:19 GMT
The consensus even ineed Brussels is that yesterday's action was purely administrative as they had 30 days to lodge at the appropriate Court. Also it takes years for case's of this sort to come before the European Court and even if that happens it is unlikely that any sanction would be enforceable as we are outside the Courts jurisdiction . How does that work then? You can break binding contracts but not answer to any law? Same as in Criminal justice you can break a law in one jurisdiction and if your in another where that court ruling doesn't apply it's not enforceable. Different Countries being a prime example
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