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Post by peterparker on Nov 28, 2020 7:17:13 GMT
Yes, you always present your views in a reasonable way. My comments were aimed mainly at Oldie, falling of his chair in uncontrolled mirth because he imagines I wasn’t aware that Champagne is a French beverage. As for rules imposed from Brussels, surely you don’t need to be reminded about Maastricht, Dublin etc etc. We are largely administered from Europe, and the intention is that their scope widens inexorably until each EU nation is nothing but an inter-dependent state, a bit like an English county is now. Each state will have very limited revenue raising scope, like our present council tax, but how that’s spent, and the raising of the main revenue streams will be decided centrally. We all know that’s the aim, why do you try and deny this? I voted to join the Common Market back in the day. We were lied to and told it was merely an organisation to facilitate trade between, I believe, 6 or 8 friendly European nations. We were never told of the federal aspirations of the organisation, and in the intervening years they have imposed layer after layer of centralised control and chipped away at individual sovereignty. The main beneficiaries of this are Germany and France. Realising the unpopularity being expressed by the people Cameron the Snake promised a referendum. He didn’t think it would happen because he was convinced there would be another Lib/Con government and that Clegg would put a stop to it. He got the surprise of his life when the Tories won outright, and set about spending tax payers money on project fear, trying to frighten people into voting to stay. Fortunately the majority of people had enough sense to see through this and voted to leave. Cameron did what all spineless jellyfish cowards do and ran away, leaving us with that dreadful May woman. In spite of everything the country has held firm and stood up against the EU’ bullying and brow-beating. We’re leaving on Jan 1st. Hooray, Get the CHAMPAGNE on ice. Raise a glass and fall off your chair Oldie! I agree about Cameron's intention to drop it expecting to be in another coalition. He was also emboldened by the PR vote and Scottish independence referendum in that he expected the nuclear option to be rejected. As for the treaties, we've signed up to many over the years, I've used NATO as an example but there are plenty. Neither Maastrict or Lisbon were imposed on us, they were agreed by our Sovereign Parliament who were free to reject them. We probably should have had referenda on them but our laws state Westminster chooses. Same going forward, it remained within our gift to integrate further or not. I was hoping you could give an example of what rules we are forced to follow after Brussels tells us that has had a detrimental effect on you. I'd be surprised if you could list more than three. Thought it is worth higglighting this bit for Oldgas |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 9:29:42 GMT
I agree about Cameron's intention to drop it expecting to be in another coalition. He was also emboldened by the PR vote and Scottish independence referendum in that he expected the nuclear option to be rejected. As for the treaties, we've signed up to many over the years, I've used NATO as an example but there are plenty. Neither Maastrict or Lisbon were imposed on us, they were agreed by our Sovereign Parliament who were free to reject them. We probably should have had referenda on them but our laws state Westminster chooses. Same going forward, it remained within our gift to integrate further or not. I was hoping you could give an example of what rules we are forced to follow after Brussels tells us that has had a detrimental effect on you. I'd be surprised if you could list more than three. Thought it is worth higglighting this bit for Oldgas British Constitutional Law is a thing of mystery to him. |
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Post by oldgas on Nov 28, 2020 10:13:34 GMT
Written by Tom Peek, a politicalsketch writer. Its just the opinion of a diehard Remoaner. |
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Post by oldgas on Nov 28, 2020 10:35:23 GMT
Thought it is worth higglighting this bit for Oldgas British Constitutional Law is a thing of mystery to him. The highlighting is pointless really because Parliament waves through nearly everything Brussels asks, otherwise here would have been little point in signing Maastricht, Dublin etc etc. Youre quite right, we should have held referenda on those treaties, but our cowardly leaders at the time didn’t because they were frightened the people would vote against their wishes. Was it Blair in opposition who said we should have a ref. on Maastricht, but when he won power said it had already been passed so there was nothing he could do? In any case, if the people had voted against it, the EU would only have made us vote again until we got it right, just like they did to other countries. Heres a little selection of rules from the EU we have to obey. None of these have been agreed by THE PEOPLE, hence why we have now got Brexit. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 10:36:24 GMT
Written by Tom Peek, a politicalsketch writer. Its just the opinion of a diehard Remoaner. Which is why I said "You Have to Laugh" It's a joke, a water take. And funny. But taking the water out of Leavers is so easy, it's no longer considered sport. At the next level there is ignorance. Nuff said |
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Post by oldgas on Nov 28, 2020 10:41:11 GMT
Another Trumpian post full of false ascertions and ill formed personal opinion. All of which you are entitled to obviously, but it makes you sound as silly as Trump himself. What is false and what are the ill-formed personal opinions? Oh, and by the way, it’s assertions; seeing as you’ve been so keen to correct my spelling in the past. Check the Cambridge and OED. Oldie. You still haven’t told me what was false and what were Ill-informed personal opinions. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 10:43:26 GMT
British Constitutional Law is a thing of mystery to him. The highlighting is pointless really because Parliament waves through nearly everything Brussels asks, otherwise here would have been little point in signing Maastricht, Dublin etc etc. Youre quite right, we should have held referenda on those treaties, but our cowardly leaders at the time didn’t because they were frightened the people would vote against their wishes. Was it Blair in opposition who said we should have a ref. on Maastricht, but when he won power said it had already been passed so there was nothing he could do? In any case, if the people had voted against it, the EU would only have made us vote again until we got it right, just like they did to other countries. Heres a little selection of rules from the EU we have to obey. None of these have been agreed by THE PEOPLE, hence why we have now got Brexit. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_lawYou are sounding ever less democratic by the day. In our Constitution we mandate executive power through free elections. If your choice loses, you accept it, that's democracy. What you appear to be advocating is disobeying the duly elected executive because you disagree with them. That stuff happens in Marxist and National Socialist countries. Not here is (hopefully). It appears the Tory Party have let you down consistently. Thatcher for being instrumental in devising the single market, Major for agreeing the necessary rules that are required to adjudicate a single market through the ECJ. But you vote for them. |
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Post by oldgas on Nov 28, 2020 10:44:00 GMT
Written by Tom Peek, a politicalsketch writer. Its just the opinion of a diehard Remoaner. Which is why I said "You Have to Laugh" It's a joke, a water take. And funny. But taking the water out of Leavers is so easy, it's no longer considered sport. At the next level there is ignorance. Nuff said Which is why it’s not funny. They’re the rantings of a Remoaner. It’s not funny, it’s tragic. Although Leavers will have the last laugh. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 10:44:09 GMT
What is false and what are the ill-formed personal opinions? Oh, and by the way, it’s assertions; seeing as you’ve been so keen to correct my spelling in the past. Check the Cambridge and OED. Oldie. You still haven’t told me what was false and what were Ill-informed personal opinions. Everything you stated in the post I referred to. |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 28, 2020 11:00:23 GMT
Which is why I said "You Have to Laugh" It's a joke, a water take. And funny. But taking the water out of Leavers is so easy, it's no longer considered sport. At the next level there is ignorance. Nuff said Which is why it’s not funny. They’re the rantings of a Remoaner. It’s not funny, it’s tragic. Although Leavers will have the last laugh. What will the last laugh be ? Just a bit of xenophobic flag waving |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 28, 2020 11:04:46 GMT
British Constitutional Law is a thing of mystery to him. The highlighting is pointless really because Parliament waves through nearly everything Brussels asks, otherwise here would have been little point in signing Maastricht, Dublin etc etc. Youre quite right, we should have held referenda on those treaties, but our cowardly leaders at the time didn’t because they were frightened the people would vote against their wishes. Was it Blair in opposition who said we should have a ref. on Maastricht, but when he won power said it had already been passed so there was nothing he could do? In any case, if the people had voted against it, the EU would only have made us vote again until we got it right, just like they did to other countries. Heres a little selection of rules from the EU we have to obey. None of these have been agreed by THE PEOPLE, hence why we have now got Brexit. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_lawObviously you’ve read that Oldgas . So which laws are you particularly opposed to ? Can’t be difficult to answer surely! |
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Post by oldgas on Nov 28, 2020 11:16:45 GMT
The highlighting is pointless really because Parliament waves through nearly everything Brussels asks, otherwise here would have been little point in signing Maastricht, Dublin etc etc. Youre quite right, we should have held referenda on those treaties, but our cowardly leaders at the time didn’t because they were frightened the people would vote against their wishes. Was it Blair in opposition who said we should have a ref. on Maastricht, but when he won power said it had already been passed so there was nothing he could do? In any case, if the people had voted against it, the EU would only have made us vote again until we got it right, just like they did to other countries. Heres a little selection of rules from the EU we have to obey. None of these have been agreed by THE PEOPLE, hence why we have now got Brexit. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_lawYou are sounding ever less democratic by the day. In our Constitution we mandate executive power through free elections. If your choice loses, you accept it, that's democracy. What you appear to be advocating is disobeying the duly elected executive because you disagree with them. That stuff happens in Marxist and National Socialist countries. Not here is (hopefully). It appears the Tory Party have let you down consistently. Thatcher for being instrumental in devising the single market, Major for agreeing the necessary rules that are required to adjudicate a single market through the ECJ. But you vote for them. Your arguments become more pathetic and pedantic by the day. First you tell me we aren’t forced to follow EU rules, then when I point out that we do, you then fall back on the old democracy argument, which is ironic for a Marxist. I note the speed of your reply, which means you knew exactly how deep we are in the EU’s pocket, because you clearly didn’t even bother to read the attachment, because you know only too well that EU law has primacy. I wasn’t advocating anything. I have taken the view for many years that government, of whatever colour, has wilfully ignored the view of the people. That isn’t democracy. They serially ignored the concerns of the people and waved through nation-changing legislation by ratifying EU treaties which would in time change this country beyond all recognition. We all know the EU aim was to create a centrally-controlled Super State monolith. If Labour or Lib Dems, or a combination of the two had won the previous election there would have been no democratic referendum. We would be even more swallowed up by the EU, would probably be using the Euro as our currency and be on the hook for further untold billions for the EU Covid recovery fund. Please don’t tell me you’re stupid enough to think any of that would be a good idea. As for how I vote, I expect that government, of whatever colour, recognise the people have to be consulted when massive change is contemplated. Eventually we were consulted, almost by default, but we were. The People’s response has shaken Europe to the core, and yet there are still people in this country who tried desperately to overturn the majority decision. You amongst them. You mentioned democracy, I believe. |
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Post by oldgas on Nov 28, 2020 11:17:51 GMT
Oldie. You still haven’t told me what was false and what were Ill-informed personal opinions. Everything you stated in the post I referred to. Stuart. You’re a reasonable man, do you agree with Oldie’s opinion? |
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Post by oldgas on Nov 28, 2020 11:25:20 GMT
The highlighting is pointless really because Parliament waves through nearly everything Brussels asks, otherwise here would have been little point in signing Maastricht, Dublin etc etc. Youre quite right, we should have held referenda on those treaties, but our cowardly leaders at the time didn’t because they were frightened the people would vote against their wishes. Was it Blair in opposition who said we should have a ref. on Maastricht, but when he won power said it had already been passed so there was nothing he could do? In any case, if the people had voted against it, the EU would only have made us vote again until we got it right, just like they did to other countries. Heres a little selection of rules from the EU we have to obey. None of these have been agreed by THE PEOPLE, hence why we have now got Brexit. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_lawObviously you’ve read that Oldgas . So which laws are you particularly opposed to ? Can’t be difficult to answer surely! Yatton, I’m not going to engage in a finger-ticking , tedious exercise over which laws I object to. That was never my point, which I suspect you very well know. My objection is solely on the grounds that the EU has any say in our laws, or how our country is run. That’s why I, and the MAJORITY voted to leave. We decided we wanted to take back control. Which is is what we’re going to do on Jan. 1st 2021. A historic day in the history of our great nation. Britons everywhere, stand with a glass of CHAMPAGNE and drink a toast in celebration at your country’s release from the shackles of the EU. Rejoice! |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 28, 2020 11:27:30 GMT
Obviously you’ve read that Oldgas . So which laws are you particularly opposed to ? Can’t be difficult to answer surely! Yatton, I’m not going to engage in a finger-ticking , tedious exercise over which laws I object to. That was never my point, which I suspect you very well know. My objection is solely on the grounds that the EU has any say in our laws, or how our country is run. That’s why I, and the MAJORITY voted to leave. We decided we wanted to take back control. Which is is what we’re going to do on Jan. 1st 2021. A historic day in the history of our great nation. Britons everywhere, stand with a glass of CHAMPAGNE and drink a toast in celebration at your country’s release from the shackles of the EU. Rejoice! So , you can’t . Why didn’t you just say that in the first place ? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 11:45:43 GMT
Yatton, I’m not going to engage in a finger-ticking , tedious exercise over which laws I object to. That was never my point, which I suspect you very well know. My objection is solely on the grounds that the EU has any say in our laws, or how our country is run. That’s why I, and the MAJORITY voted to leave. We decided we wanted to take back control. Which is is what we’re going to do on Jan. 1st 2021. A historic day in the history of our great nation. Britons everywhere, stand with a glass of CHAMPAGNE and drink a toast in celebration at your country’s release from the shackles of the EU. Rejoice! So , you can’t . Why didn’t you just say that in the first place ? Because that would be an admission. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 11:56:19 GMT
You are sounding ever less democratic by the day. In our Constitution we mandate executive power through free elections. If your choice loses, you accept it, that's democracy. What you appear to be advocating is disobeying the duly elected executive because you disagree with them. That stuff happens in Marxist and National Socialist countries. Not here is (hopefully). It appears the Tory Party have let you down consistently. Thatcher for being instrumental in devising the single market, Major for agreeing the necessary rules that are required to adjudicate a single market through the ECJ. But you vote for them. Your arguments become more pathetic and pedantic by the day. First you tell me we aren’t forced to follow EU rules, then when I point out that we do, you then fall back on the old democracy argument, which is ironic for a Marxist. I note the speed of your reply, which means you knew exactly how deep we are in the EU’s pocket, because you clearly didn’t even bother to read the attachment, because you know only too well that EU law has primacy. I wasn’t advocating anything. I have taken the view for many years that government, of whatever colour, has wilfully ignored the view of the people. That isn’t democracy. They serially ignored the concerns of the people and waved through nation-changing legislation by ratifying EU treaties which would in time change this country beyond all recognition. We all know the EU aim was to create a centrally-controlled Super State monolith. If Labour or Lib Dems, or a combination of the two had won the previous election there would have been no democratic referendum. We would be even more swallowed up by the EU, would probably be using the Euro as our currency and be on the hook for further untold billions for the EU Covid recovery fund. Please don’t tell me you’re stupid enough to think any of that would be a good idea. As for how I vote, I expect that government, of whatever colour, recognise the people have to be consulted when massive change is contemplated. Eventually we were consulted, almost by default, but we were. The People’s response has shaken Europe to the core, and yet there are still people in this country who tried desperately to overturn the majority decision. You amongst them. You mentioned democracy, I believe. For as long as I can remember, my first election I was eligible to vote in was 1970, UK citizens have been free to vote for whom they choose. Nobody forced them to. After the Tory Government got the Maastricht Treaty through our Parliament in the mid 90s, the electorate went on to vote in the most Europhile Government ever, in Tony Blair's Labour Party. By a massive majority, twice. Far from not representing the will of the people, that was the will of the people. So history does not support your assertions (spelt properly), again. You are making it up because you don't agree with what happened. In addition you cannot name one law that our Sovereign Parliament has agreed to put on our Statute book as a result of our EU Treaty that has adversely affected you personally. You cannot put forward one grain of quantifiable, empirical, evidence that shows the people will be better off, economically and socially, as a result of leaving the EU. It's just baseless ranting. |
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Post by oldgas on Nov 28, 2020 12:20:09 GMT
Yatton, I’m not going to engage in a finger-ticking , tedious exercise over which laws I object to. That was never my point, which I suspect you very well know. My objection is solely on the grounds that the EU has any say in our laws, or how our country is run. That’s why I, and the MAJORITY voted to leave. We decided we wanted to take back control. Which is is what we’re going to do on Jan. 1st 2021. A historic day in the history of our great nation. on. I can and I could. However Ihave chosen not to because, as you very well know, my objection is to the fact the EU can impose any law on us, good or bad. Britons everywhere, stand with a glass of CHAMPAGNE and drink a toast in celebration at your country’s release from the shackles of the EU. Rejoice! So , you can’t . Why didn’t you just say that in the first place ? No Yatton, I could very easily, but I chose not to. As I’ve told you time and again I, and 17.39 million other people objected to the EU having ANY say in our law making. If you are unable to comprehend that, there really is little point in talking to you. |
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Post by oldgas on Nov 28, 2020 12:23:10 GMT
Your arguments become more pathetic and pedantic by the day. First you tell me we aren’t forced to follow EU rules, then when I point out that we do, you then fall back on the old democracy argument, which is ironic for a Marxist. I note the speed of your reply, which means you knew exactly how deep we are in the EU’s pocket, because you clearly didn’t even bother to read the attachment, because you know only too well that EU law has primacy. I wasn’t advocating anything. I have taken the view for many years that government, of whatever colour, has wilfully ignored the view of the people. That isn’t democracy. They serially ignored the concerns of the people and waved through nation-changing legislation by ratifying EU treaties which would in time change this country beyond all recognition. We all know the EU aim was to create a centrally-controlled Super State monolith. If Labour or Lib Dems, or a combination of the two had won the previous election there would have been no democratic referendum. We would be even more swallowed up by the EU, would probably be using the Euro as our currency and be on the hook for further untold billions for the EU Covid recovery fund. Please don’t tell me you’re stupid enough to think any of that would be a good idea. As for how I vote, I expect that government, of whatever colour, recognise the people have to be consulted when massive change is contemplated. Eventually we were consulted, almost by default, but we were. The People’s response has shaken Europe to the core, and yet there are still people in this country who tried desperately to overturn the majority decision. You amongst them. You mentioned democracy, I believe. For as long as I can remember, my first election I was eligible to vote in was 1970, UK citizens have been free to vote for whom they choose. Nobody forced them to. After the Tory Government got the Maastricht Treaty through our Parliament in the mid 90s, the electorate went on to vote in the most Europhile Government ever, in Tony Blair's Labour Party. By a massive majority, twice. Far from not representing the will of the people, that was the will of the people. So history does not support your assertions (spelt properly), again. You are making it up because you don't agree with what happened. In addition you cannot name one law that our Sovereign Parliament has agreed to put on our Statute book as a result of our EU Treaty that has adversely affected you personally. You cannot put forward one grain of quantifiable, empirical, evidence that shows the people will be better off, economically and socially, as a result of leaving the EU. It's just baseless ranting. But I do agree with what happened, surely you can see that. We had the referendum, Brexit won. On that basis alone, you’re the one who’s ranting. |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 28, 2020 12:26:58 GMT
So , you can’t . Why didn’t you just say that in the first place ? No Yatton, I could very easily, but I chose not to. As I’ve told you time and again I, and 17.39 million other people objected to the EU having ANY say in our law making. If you are unable to comprehend that, there really is little point in talking to you. Haha pull the other one Oldgas 😂 You can’t , you know you can’t , we know you can’t . You’d be all over it ranting & raving about the injustice of (  ??) law or laws you don’t agree with . This is getting a bit embarrassing for you mate 😕 |
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