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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 10, 2020 8:40:01 GMT
So Boris has fone to intervene and arguably made it worse I don't see how he's made it worse,what you mean is he didn't capitulate. In the end the UK and EU have different principles which neither side are prepared to water down. Difficult one, where could the compromise come from? I have the feeling that to the EU, the Single Market is worth more than our tariff free business and our 'sovereignty' is worth more to us. There really is a good chance nothing will be done in time and we enter WTO on 1 January. I don't agree with that view but I think that is where we are at. So, tariffs on everything now or some tariffs on some items potentially at some point in the future. Business versus politics. |
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Post by peterparker on Dec 10, 2020 9:19:14 GMT
So Boris has fone to intervene and arguably made it worse I don't see how he's made it worse,what you mean is he didn't capitulate. In the end the UK and EU have different principles which neither side are prepared to water down. maybe not worse, but it's not exactly Boris riding in to save the day. As Stuart says, where is the compromise going to come from, from either side, if there is to be one We are a few weeks away and it all boils down essentially to the same arguments from years ago and what people warned about. The integrity of the single market, whatever Vote Leave, Gove, Davis, IDS etc, tried to sell as being easy, better etc, etc |
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 10, 2020 10:01:56 GMT
With Tesco warning about prices, Honda 'coincidentally' stopping production due to suppliers and now the CBI, I wonder which side is getting pressured by external factors more. Certainly France over fishing, who else?
From the Indy
‘Difference between deal and no deal’ matters to businesses, says CBI boss
A leading British businessman has urged negotiators to get a Brexit deal over the line, warning “we have to be in ‘getting to yes’ mode”.
Confederation of British Industry director-general Tony Danker told BBC Radio 4’s Today show on Thursday that the “prize of a deal is real, the cost of a no-deal is significant”.
“Every business person knows that when you negotiate a contract, when you negotiate a deal, you have to have clauses for worst-case scenarios - but they are worst-case scenarios,” he said, before adding: “Most of a good deal involves mechanisms for dispute resolution.”
“The difference between a deal and no-deal is incredibly real in GDP terms, it’s incredibly real for businesses - particularly in certain sectors - so we have to be in ‘getting to yes’ mode,” he said.
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Post by peterparker on Dec 10, 2020 10:22:46 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 10, 2020 10:27:26 GMT
But they need us more than we need them and the German car industry will lean on Merkel. 🤔 |
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Post by peterparker on Dec 10, 2020 10:29:56 GMT
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Post by trevorgas on Dec 10, 2020 10:41:20 GMT
I don't see how he's made it worse,what you mean is he didn't capitulate. In the end the UK and EU have different principles which neither side are prepared to water down. Difficult one, where could the compromise come from? I have the feeling that to the EU, the Single Market is worth more than our tariff free business and our 'sovereignty' is worth more to us. There really is a good chance nothing will be done in time and we enter WTO on 1 January. I don't agree with that view but I think that is where we are at. So, tariffs on everything now or some tariffs on some items potentially at some point in the future. Business versus politics. I would agree with you Stuart,there are fundamental philosophical differences which are very hard to compromise on and my guess is that will only happen when there is "pain" and it will depend on who feels the greater pain first. |
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Post by trevorgas on Dec 10, 2020 10:44:37 GMT
I don't see how he's made it worse,what you mean is he didn't capitulate. In the end the UK and EU have different principles which neither side are prepared to water down. maybe not worse, but it's not exactly Boris riding in to save the day. As Stuart says, where is the compromise going to come from, from either side, if there is to be one We are a few weeks away and it all boils down essentially to the same arguments from years ago and what people warned about. The integrity of the single market, whatever Vote Leave, Gove, Davis, IDS etc, tried to sell as being easy, better etc, etc Genuine question do you think folk believed it would be an easy deal,I always thought that it would very difficult as both sides red lines are diametrically opposed to any sort of compromise. |
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Post by Gassy on Dec 10, 2020 10:56:23 GMT
Tariffs, paperwork to show finances and compliance with standards or animals and foodstuffs. Extra border guards, cost of implementing checks, physical infrastructure......and so on. I though leaving was meant to save money and reduce red tape. A Trade Deal with the EU should be very easy to settle, as things stand, the current UK standards are the very same as the EU standards ! Typed in 'easy' in the thread and first page came up with Nobby saying that a trade deal should be easy. This was in 2018, never mind during pre-referendum. I think a lot of people thought it would be easy because too many ill-educated people thought they needed us more than we needed them and the EU would come begging. |
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Post by peterparker on Dec 10, 2020 10:57:06 GMT
maybe not worse, but it's not exactly Boris riding in to save the day. As Stuart says, where is the compromise going to come from, from either side, if there is to be one We are a few weeks away and it all boils down essentially to the same arguments from years ago and what people warned about. The integrity of the single market, whatever Vote Leave, Gove, Davis, IDS etc, tried to sell as being easy, better etc, etc Genuine question do you think folk believed it would be an easy deal,I always thought that it would very difficult as both sides red lines are diametrically opposed to any sort of compromise. That's hard to answer I guess, however there are plenty of examples of people who have not understood what leave means. That is not to say they are thick or unintelligent, but those people have clearly bought in to the cruel and corrupt EU telling us what to do narrative, whilst not being able to name a single thing that has negatively affected them It was always a complex issue and Vote leave did a better job of simplifying their argument, however misleading or untrue it was or wasn't than remain did of selling the positives. "Taking Back Conrtol", "Fish" "Australia" and all the other buzzwords and slogans. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 10, 2020 10:58:05 GMT
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Post by peterparker on Dec 10, 2020 10:58:28 GMT
A Trade Deal with the EU should be very easy to settle, as things stand, the current UK standards are the very same as the EU standards ! Typed in 'easy' in the thread and first page came up with Nobby saying that a trade deal should be easy. This was in 2018, never mind during pre-referendum. I think a lot of people thought it would be easy because too many ill-educated people thought they needed us more than we needed them and the EU would come begging. A Trade deal could be easy based on current standards and regulations. That isn't the problem though |
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 10, 2020 11:03:18 GMT
maybe not worse, but it's not exactly Boris riding in to save the day. As Stuart says, where is the compromise going to come from, from either side, if there is to be one We are a few weeks away and it all boils down essentially to the same arguments from years ago and what people warned about. The integrity of the single market, whatever Vote Leave, Gove, Davis, IDS etc, tried to sell as being easy, better etc, etc Genuine question do you think folk believed it would be an easy deal,I always thought that it would very difficult as both sides red lines are diametrically opposed to any sort of compromise. It depends on whose terms, had we agreed the Single Market and/or Customs Union then yes, it would have been easy. As soon as we ruled out both then it became almost incompatible. |
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Post by trevorgas on Dec 10, 2020 11:08:22 GMT
Genuine question do you think folk believed it would be an easy deal,I always thought that it would very difficult as both sides red lines are diametrically opposed to any sort of compromise. That's hard to answer I guess, however there are plenty of examples of people who have not understood what leave means. That is not to say they are thick or unintelligent, but those people have clearly bought in to the cruel and corrupt EU telling us what to do narrative, whilst not being able to name a single thing that has negatively affected them It was always a complex issue and Vote leave did a better job of simplifying their argument, however misleading or untrue it was or wasn't than remain did of selling the positives. "Taking Back Conrtol", "Fish" "Australia" and all the other buzzwords and slogans. Yep I would agree with that,the real issue for me is that Cameron etc al couldn't articulate the benefits of staying and all Osborne could do was try to frighten people and I suspect he drove many undecided folk in to the Leave campaign by adopting a type of negative campaign. Hey ho my view is its going to be bumpy however,come what may we will find a way through and I will be interested in seeing stuff like whether we start consuming more of our food etc rather than importing/exporting which doesn't help the environment. Also,if we can start generating products on a more regional basis rather than the mass movement of goods etc we currently see. In the short term product choice may be restricted but I don't think that's a bad thing. |
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Post by Gassy on Dec 10, 2020 11:08:26 GMT
Typed in 'easy' in the thread and first page came up with Nobby saying that a trade deal should be easy. This was in 2018, never mind during pre-referendum. I think a lot of people thought it would be easy because too many ill-educated people thought they needed us more than we needed them and the EU would come begging. A Trade deal could be easy based on current standards and regulations. That isn't the problem though Well standards is still an issue I believe? I think the point is that the whole process was oversimplified and people thought it would be easier, thats for sure. For some reason, people thought we were coming from a position of power, when in reality we don't have as much power here as everyone thinks. Pretty much every leave politician was telling everyone how easy it would be, now 4 years later we're going to be told that no one actually believed that line? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, it used to be called project fear. |
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Post by Gassy on Dec 10, 2020 11:30:49 GMT
If we leave with no deal UK citizens will be barred from entering the EU, due to Covid.
Only reasons not considered non-essential will be:
Aid work, care workers, diplomats, healthcare professionals, military personnel, seasonal farm workers and transport workers. Entry for study, transit and urgent family reasons is also permitted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 11:37:49 GMT
If we leave with no deal UK citizens will be barred from entering the EU, due to Covid. Only reasons not considered non-essential will be: Aid work, care workers, diplomats, healthcare professionals, military personnel, seasonal farm workers and transport workers. Entry for study, transit and urgent family reasons is also permitted. You can bet the brexiteers unable to escape to their chateaus in the south of France in January and February will be complaining like f**k with no sense of irony. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 10, 2020 11:47:37 GMT
If we leave with no deal UK citizens will be barred from entering the EU, due to Covid. Only reasons not considered non-essential will be: Aid work, care workers, diplomats, healthcare professionals, military personnel, seasonal farm workers and transport workers. Entry for study, transit and urgent family reasons is also permitted. Hang on, what's this bit here? You mean Brussels isn't actually dictating? 🤭 "Alternatively, individual member state countries could decide to override the EU rules and create a corridor with the UK." www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55256248 |
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Post by Gassy on Dec 10, 2020 11:50:13 GMT
If we leave with no deal UK citizens will be barred from entering the EU, due to Covid. Only reasons not considered non-essential will be: Aid work, care workers, diplomats, healthcare professionals, military personnel, seasonal farm workers and transport workers. Entry for study, transit and urgent family reasons is also permitted. Hang on, what's this bit here? You mean Brussels isn't actually dictating? 🤭 "Alternatively, individual member state countries could decide to override the EU rules and create a corridor with the UK." www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55256248No, I don’t believe it. That would make them........... Sovereign nations 😳 |
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 10, 2020 12:31:26 GMT
A year since the election, what a year it's been.
Can't see the EU changing anything at the Summit, but you never know.
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