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Post by yattongas on Dec 27, 2020 17:08:14 GMT
Great for the kids of hard up families, instead of popping across to France or other EU countries by car or on the train they can fork out and get a plane ticket to the other side of the world to study . Another win 🇬🇧 It's World wide and I assume that will include EU Countries. I think you’ll find it doesn’t 🤔 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 17:25:19 GMT
In all seriousness I can't see the EU surviving in its current format fo 20 years. I think the Euro currency is doomed, I completely disagree with this, but whats new there?  Have they changed the rules then? I thought an application to join the EU included a commitment to join the Euro Zone after a fixed period? Prices rose (or fell) because of the valuation of the national currency at the point of adoption of the Euro. Not because of some inherent product price differential. The biggest issue though goes beyond the points you raise, in my opinion. The problem is the lack of a Central Bank that controls monetary policy for the benefit of all countries in the Euro Zone. Whilst the German economy dominates, and therefore underpins the value of the Euro, it is highly likely that (under normal conditions) interest rates will be too high for the smaller economies as set by the ECB, an ECB controlled by the Germans. As a result of the higher interest rates the Euro as currency is priced to highly which encourages Sovereign Debt in the smaller countries (which they could not do with their previous currency), the markets very willing to lend because the Euro value is all but guaranteed by the Germans. This has led to a democratic deficit where national governments are having to submit their annual budgets for approval by the ECB. (Germany by default) We were very wise to stay out of this, thankfully because Gordon Brown saw this and resisted Tony Blair's emotive desire to do so. To be fair to Osborne he also said that the Eurozone will not truly work until all banking systems are unified under one true central bank. This issue is unresolved and the issue of Brexit and now the pandemic has papered over the cracks in this. One of the reasons the UK enjoyed the support of the smaller nations is because they saw us as big enough, financially, to stand up to the Germans. One of the reasons the Germans supported us is because they saw us allies in resisting the centralised Statist inclinations of the French. By walking away we have thrown the baby out with the bath water though. Given our financial markets pre-eminence and our instincts for free trade we could have been a massive force for good in adapting the rules of the free market, rules we were instrumental in drafting in the first place. But we chose to disappear up our own ass. |
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Post by oldgas on Dec 27, 2020 17:44:03 GMT
In all seriousness I can't see the EU surviving in its current format fo 20 years. I think the Euro currency is doomed, you just can't have one currency and a one size fits all economic policy with such divergent states. The Germans, with the French hanging on their coat tails will bully countries for only so long. Also, the Eastern European countries are more independently minded having not long escaped Soviet pclutches. They aren't keen on the closer integration demanded by Brussels, and I can see a number of nations saying enough, give us more freedom. The EU may in time return to what it should only ever have been, a Common Market for trading between European nations. Nothing wrong and plenty right with that, and it's what I voted for back in 1975. It was lying, cheating, duplicitous PM's of all shades that betrayed us. I'm so glad we're out. PS. I thought we were sh1t today. I completely disagree with this, but whats new there? The Euro seems to be doing fine, I think we'll see less countries adopting the Euro as they join the EU though as typically when countries have adopted it, prices increase quite quickly. The Eastern European countries, having lived in one for 5 years, are pretty pro-EU. They know without the EU funding they'd bee f*cked as there is simply so much corruption there and funds going missing. If you're an eastern European country, if you want to actually compete - you must be an EU country. Otherwise tourism is lower, businesses won't invest/expand into those countries & you cannot attract good workers. Never mind that fact that you have much less buying power as a single nation than the single-market. In fact, a lot of those ex-Soviet countries are more used to being part of a larger community, if anything. Having been in Austro-Hungarian empire, German control, then Soviet. (And before you get in there, no - the EU cannot be compared to either of those). I actually think it'll be the smaller countries that'll drive the EU on as it is needed for many smaller countries. If we end up succeeding quite quickly and another country like Italy leaves, then you may be right - I think a few might consider it. Otherwise, I don't think anything will change at all. Well, I thought we played sh1t yesterday, but disagree if you wish. Greece have been practically raped by the EU with regard to their debt problem, I don't think Italy are that far behind, whilst the Iberian peninsula countries are suffering under the Euro yolk. The Euro was introduced so there would be a common currency with a one size fits all set of financial rules and parameters. Great for an industrial powerhouse like the newly unified Germany, but not so good for other countries. There were supposed to be tests and targets before a nation could join the Euro currency, but they were either stretched or ignored in the main by France and Germany, who wanted everyone in the same boat, thus making then ever reliant on the EU and making closer harmony easier and more likely. You say the smaller countries will drive the EU because they benefit from it the most. I believe our GDP was the equivalent of the 17 smallest nations' GDP. Our leaving will have left a massive hole in EU finances on which these smaller countries rely. They aren't going to be happy receiving less which means the nett contributors will have to pay more money in. If some of the larger EU countries see UK doing well (which we will) you may get a situation where one or more of them might like to go it alone. That is why Brussels wanted us punished so other countries would think 10 times about leaving. It would only take another couple of nett contributors to pack up their tents and leave and the EU, and the Euro currency would be in deep trouble. PS. I thought you guys weren't talking to me any more. |
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Post by oldgas on Dec 27, 2020 17:51:31 GMT
I completely disagree with this, but whats new there? Have they changed the rules then? I thought an application to join the EU included a commitment to join the Euro Zone after a fixed period? Prices rose (or fell) because of the valuation of the national currency at the point of adoption of the Euro. Not because of some inherent product price differential. The biggest issue though goes beyond the points you raise, in my opinion. The problem is the lack of a Central Bank that controls monetary policy for the benefit of all countries in the Euro Zone. Whilst the German economy dominates, and therefore underpins the value of the Euro, it is highly likely that (under normal conditions) interest rates will be too high for the smaller economies as set by the ECB, an ECB controlled by the Germans. As a result of the higher interest rates the Euro as currency is priced to highly which encourages Sovereign Debt in the smaller countries (which they could not do with their previous currency), the markets very willing to lend because the Euro value is all but guaranteed by the Germans. This has led to a democratic deficit where national governments are having to submit their annual budgets for approval by the ECB. (Germany by default) We were very wise to stay out of this, thankfully because Gordon Brown saw this and resisted Tony Blair's emotive desire to do so. To be fair to Osborne he also said that the Eurozone will not truly work until all banking systems are unified under one true central bank. This issue is unresolved and the issue of Brexit and now the pandemic has papered over the cracks in this. One of the reasons the UK enjoyed the support of the smaller nations is because they saw us as big enough, financially, to stand up to the Germans. One of the reasons the Germans supported us is because they saw us allies in resisting the centralised Statist inclinations of the French. By walking away we have thrown the baby out with the bath water though. Given our financial markets pre-eminence and our instincts for free trade we could have been a massive force for good in adapting the rules of the free market, rules we were instrumental in drafting in the first place. But we chose to disappear up our own ass. So what you're saying is that the Euro will only work properly when there is a truly imdependent banking overseer, just like our Bank of England? That means that any country in the Euro currency regime would in fact be completely locked into the EU, without even the power to regulate its own finances, thus each such country would be little more than a separate state orbiting and under full control of Brussels. Thank God we've left. PS I don't expect a response because you're not speaking to me. |
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Post by oldgas on Dec 27, 2020 17:53:56 GMT
Have they changed the rules then? I thought an application to join the EU included a commitment to join the Euro Zone after a fixed period? Prices rose (or fell) because of the valuation of the national currency at the point of adoption of the Euro. Not because of some inherent product price differential. The biggest issue though goes beyond the points you raise, in my opinion. The problem is the lack of a Central Bank that controls monetary policy for the benefit of all countries in the Euro Zone. Whilst the German economy dominates, and therefore underpins the value of the Euro, it is highly likely that (under normal conditions) interest rates will be too high for the smaller economies as set by the ECB, an ECB controlled by the Germans. As a result of the higher interest rates the Euro as currency is priced to highly which encourages Sovereign Debt in the smaller countries (which they could not do with their previous currency), the markets very willing to lend because the Euro value is all but guaranteed by the Germans. This has led to a democratic deficit where national governments are having to submit their annual budgets for approval by the ECB. (Germany by default) We were very wise to stay out of this, thankfully because Gordon Brown saw this and resisted Tony Blair's emotive desire to do so. To be fair to Osborne he also said that the Eurozone will not truly work until all banking systems are unified under one true central bank. This issue is unresolved and the issue of Brexit and now the pandemic has papered over the cracks in this. One of the reasons the UK enjoyed the support of the smaller nations is because they saw us as big enough, financially, to stand up to the Germans. One of the reasons the Germans supported us is because they saw us allies in resisting the centralised Statist inclinations of the French. By walking away we have thrown the baby out with the bath water though. Given our financial markets pre-eminence and our instincts for free trade we could have been a massive force for good in adapting the rules of the free market, rules we were instrumental in drafting in the first place. But we chose to disappear up our own ass. So what you're saying is that the Euro will only work properly when there is a truly imdependent banking overseer, just like our Bank of England? That means that any country in the Euro currency regime would in fact be completely locked into the EU, without even the power to regulate its own finances, thus each such country would be little more than a separate state orbiting and under full control of Brussels. Thank God we've left. Oh, and by the way, we say arse in this country. I know you're an international trader who's run conglomerates in the US of A, but please don't import their crass bastardisation of our language. Leave that at Kennedy airport. PS I don't expect a response because you're not speaking to me. |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 27, 2020 18:50:30 GMT
I completely disagree with this, but whats new there? Have they changed the rules then? I thought an application to join the EU included a commitment to join the Euro Zone after a fixed period? Prices rose (or fell) because of the valuation of the national currency at the point of adoption of the Euro. Not because of some inherent product price differential. The biggest issue though goes beyond the points you raise, in my opinion. The problem is the lack of a Central Bank that controls monetary policy for the benefit of all countries in the Euro Zone. Whilst the German economy dominates, and therefore underpins the value of the Euro, it is highly likely that (under normal conditions) interest rates will be too high for the smaller economies as set by the ECB, an ECB controlled by the Germans. As a result of the higher interest rates the Euro as currency is priced to highly which encourages Sovereign Debt in the smaller countries (which they could not do with their previous currency), the markets very willing to lend because the Euro value is all but guaranteed by the Germans. This has led to a democratic deficit where national governments are having to submit their annual budgets for approval by the ECB. (Germany by default) We were very wise to stay out of this, thankfully because Gordon Brown saw this and resisted Tony Blair's emotive desire to do so. To be fair to Osborne he also said that the Eurozone will not truly work until all banking systems are unified under one true central bank. This issue is unresolved and the issue of Brexit and now the pandemic has papered over the cracks in this. One of the reasons the UK enjoyed the support of the smaller nations is because they saw us as big enough, financially, to stand up to the Germans. One of the reasons the Germans supported us is because they saw us allies in resisting the centralised Statist inclinations of the French. By walking away we have thrown the baby out with the bath water though. Given our financial markets pre-eminence and our instincts for free trade we could have been a massive force for good in adapting the rules of the free market, rules we were instrumental in drafting in the first place. But we chose to disappear up our own ass. Expectation yes, but the actual requirements include several factors including interest rates, exchange rates, inflation, economic stability and will need the approval of Euro member nations and unanimity in the European Council. Plenty of room to manoeuvre if a country wants to manipulate the requirements and stay out. In practice, it's a theoretical requirement to join. |
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Post by yattongas on Dec 27, 2020 20:00:10 GMT
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Post by yattongas on Dec 27, 2020 23:31:23 GMT
Looks like the fisher folk are totally Wee weeed ( ooh that’s been changed ! 😂) off and have realised that Boris has sold them out . Who could possibly of guessed, this really surprises me . Still , there’s some staunch head banging brexiteers who think we’ve won on the fish front .
Personally I feel sorry for them .
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Post by yattongas on Dec 28, 2020 5:06:56 GMT
Tweet from :
Fishing for Leave @fishingforleave
So it continues. The more you read the worse it gets
Bet those folk & Tory MPs who ran to commend the deal without having read anything but the govts spin feel bloody silly now
No coincidence the deals been published mere few days before its voted on!😠
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Post by peterparker on Dec 28, 2020 8:43:13 GMT
Gove spewing his spin and BS everywhere this morning
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Post by trevorgas on Dec 28, 2020 9:09:57 GMT
Haven't the major phone coys stated publicly they have no plans to change rates,particularly as they charge no roaming charges in 70 Countries already. |
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Post by trevorgas on Dec 28, 2020 9:12:45 GMT
Have they changed the rules then? I thought an application to join the EU included a commitment to join the Euro Zone after a fixed period? Prices rose (or fell) because of the valuation of the national currency at the point of adoption of the Euro. Not because of some inherent product price differential. The biggest issue though goes beyond the points you raise, in my opinion. The problem is the lack of a Central Bank that controls monetary policy for the benefit of all countries in the Euro Zone. Whilst the German economy dominates, and therefore underpins the value of the Euro, it is highly likely that (under normal conditions) interest rates will be too high for the smaller economies as set by the ECB, an ECB controlled by the Germans. As a result of the higher interest rates the Euro as currency is priced to highly which encourages Sovereign Debt in the smaller countries (which they could not do with their previous currency), the markets very willing to lend because the Euro value is all but guaranteed by the Germans. This has led to a democratic deficit where national governments are having to submit their annual budgets for approval by the ECB. (Germany by default) We were very wise to stay out of this, thankfully because Gordon Brown saw this and resisted Tony Blair's emotive desire to do so. To be fair to Osborne he also said that the Eurozone will not truly work until all banking systems are unified under one true central bank. This issue is unresolved and the issue of Brexit and now the pandemic has papered over the cracks in this. One of the reasons the UK enjoyed the support of the smaller nations is because they saw us as big enough, financially, to stand up to the Germans. One of the reasons the Germans supported us is because they saw us allies in resisting the centralised Statist inclinations of the French. By walking away we have thrown the baby out with the bath water though. Given our financial markets pre-eminence and our instincts for free trade we could have been a massive force for good in adapting the rules of the free market, rules we were instrumental in drafting in the first place. But we chose to disappear up our own ass. Expectation yes, but the actual requirements include several factors including interest rates, exchange rates, inflation, economic stability and will need the approval of Euro member nations and unanimity in the European Council. Plenty of room to manoeuvre if a country wants to manipulate the requirements and stay out. In practice, it's a theoretical requirement to join. Perhaps it's time to be not concerned about what the EU will do but about what we're going to do.😆 |
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Post by yattongas on Dec 28, 2020 9:23:56 GMT
Gove advices all holidaymakers to get comprehensive travel insurance. Those old Brexit voters with dodgy tickers and other chronic illnesses maybe priced out of going ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 9:30:53 GMT
Expectation yes, but the actual requirements include several factors including interest rates, exchange rates, inflation, economic stability and will need the approval of Euro member nations and unanimity in the European Council. Plenty of room to manoeuvre if a country wants to manipulate the requirements and stay out. In practice, it's a theoretical requirement to join. Perhaps it's time to be not concerned about what the EU will do but about what we're going to do.😆 Fair point. But we cannot stand back and have history, or indeed current affairs, rewritten. But yes, let's move on to what the UK will (intends) to do. |
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Post by trevorgas on Dec 28, 2020 9:36:07 GMT
Perhaps it's time to be not concerned about what the EU will do but about what we're going to do.😆 Fair point. But we cannot stand back and have history, or indeed current affairs, rewritten. But yes, let's move on to what the UK will (intends) to do. I agree Les,away from all this for a moment how are you? |
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Post by peterparker on Dec 28, 2020 9:36:18 GMT
Slight tangent, but if you want a laugh the Torygraph printed this
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Post by oldgas on Dec 28, 2020 9:57:13 GMT
Gove advices all holidaymakers to get comprehensive travel insurance. Those old Brexit voters with dodgy tickers and other chronic illnesses maybe priced out of going ? Who would go abroad and not have holiday insurance? |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 28, 2020 10:22:49 GMT
Expectation yes, but the actual requirements include several factors including interest rates, exchange rates, inflation, economic stability and will need the approval of Euro member nations and unanimity in the European Council. Plenty of room to manoeuvre if a country wants to manipulate the requirements and stay out. In practice, it's a theoretical requirement to join. Perhaps it's time to be not concerned about what the EU will do but about what we're going to do.😆 True, although one of the reasons to leave (certainly on here) was the concern about what the EU was going to become. It's important to compare promises with reality but the corollary of that is looking at the concerns over reality. Useful for when we rejoin 😀 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 10:47:42 GMT
Fair point. But we cannot stand back and have history, or indeed current affairs, rewritten. But yes, let's move on to what the UK will (intends) to do. I agree Les,away from all this for a moment how are you? 👎 |
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Post by yattongas on Dec 28, 2020 10:53:46 GMT
Gove advices all holidaymakers to get comprehensive travel insurance. Those old Brexit voters with dodgy tickers and other chronic illnesses maybe priced out of going ? 28% have no travel insurance at all. A lot of the others have a basic travel insurance policy . |
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