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Post by mftc on Oct 8, 2018 13:30:41 GMT
The very wise Yoda once said something along the lines of "failure is a great teacher".
Francis had a terrible start at Exeter, Buckle and Atkins had much success before joining us. Who would you rather have?
DC has done an unbelievable job. He has had a lot of success and with his hands effectively tied by having to sell his best players.
Personally, I think when Parts and Sercs are fully fit we will look a much better team and this experience will help DC be a better manager.
With a bit more fortune we could have beaten Rochdale and Walsall (not saying we deserved it) but a couple of inches were all that cost us.
I do worry about Marcus recruitment as I heard he recommended Gosling and Nichols.
Hopefully one or stickers can nick a goal tomorrow and boost their confidence.
If not DC has to have the funds to get someone like Stockley. I heard he was a major target but we just couldn't afford him.
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Post by blueblood1883 on Oct 8, 2018 14:42:19 GMT
I often wonder if there is a disruptive split in the dressing room. Obviously the old DC team will have worked with DC's rotation week on week, but the newcomers won't and I'm beginning to wonder if this might just be part of the problem. It's worth mentioning that only part of DCs squad seem to be subject to the squad rotation policy whereas others seem to play week in/week out regardless of form. That's bound to cause issues. I think that's a good point, but whichever way you look at it his squad rotation has got us promoted in successive seasons and two respectable finishes in league one.. Say what you like about Harrison but he was a character in the changing room and in my opinion I believe Payne is the exact opposite, don't want to single just him out but his attitude just appears all wrong for a paid professional.. and as mentioned, could this be part of the problem?...
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Post by tomylil on Oct 8, 2018 14:53:25 GMT
It's worth mentioning that only part of DCs squad seem to be subject to the squad rotation policy whereas others seem to play week in/week out regardless of form. That's bound to cause issues. I think that's a good point, but whichever way you look at it his squad rotation has got us promoted in successive seasons and two respectable finishes in league one.. Say what you like about Harrison but he was a character in the changing room and in my opinion I believe Payne is the exact opposite, don't want to single just him out but his attitude just appears all wrong for a paid professional.. and as mentioned, could this be part of the problem?... The problem is that DC simply didn't have the budget to be too choosy about recruits. No idea if there is a rift in the dressing room, but i'm not aware of a queue lining up to sign all of our players so a good number owe DC for playing in the football league and should therefore pull their fingers out. DC cuts a miserable figure and has done for a while now. He probably regrets not taking up the Leeds offer, and you have to wonder what promises were made that ultimately kept him here, and which have clearly not been honoured. I can't think of anyone else who could do as good a job as him with the resources available to be honest.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 15:08:18 GMT
I think that's a good point, but whichever way you look at it his squad rotation has got us promoted in successive seasons and two respectable finishes in league one.. Say what you like about Harrison but he was a character in the changing room and in my opinion I believe Payne is the exact opposite, don't want to single just him out but his attitude just appears all wrong for a paid professional.. and as mentioned, could this be part of the problem?... The problem is that DC simply didn't have the budget to be too choosy about recruits. No idea if there is a rift in the dressing room, but i'm not aware of a queue lining up to sign all of our players so a good number owe DC for playing in the football league and should therefore pull their fingers out. DC cuts a miserable figure and has done for a while now. He probably regrets not taking up the Leeds offer, and you have to wonder what promises were made that ultimately kept him here, and which have clearly not been honoured. I can't think of anyone else who could do as good a job as him with the resources available to be honest. How much was DC budget?
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Oct 8, 2018 15:39:11 GMT
Interesting comparisons between DC and Paul Trollope here. We now seem to be in a similar position to the one PT found himself in during his fourth season in L1, and he was sacked before Christmas. DC is in his third season in L1 and we are in a relegation position. PT managed an 11th place in his third season. PT gave us one promotion, a Wembley final and an FA Cup quarter final. DC has given us two promotions. DC is a legend and must not be sacked even if we go down, according to some. PT was useless after LL left and was ripe for sacking, according to some. In fact most posters seem to share this view. My opinion is that owners and fans are far too quick to decide that managers should be sacked, without giving them a chance to turn things around. I agree with the opinion that DC should not be sacked, even if we go down this season. He should be given the chance to prove he can get us promoted again, and if we do get relegated, I would not even think about replacing him until December 2109, and then only if we are clearly not going to get promoted. I also think the Board were far too quick to sack PT. He had managed to get us a promotion and the other things I mentioned, and should not have been dumped in December 2010 when we had plenty of time to turn things around. It went well after he left, didn't it? I just compare the two men and wonder why one is dismissed as a footnote and the other is a legend. And I know many will say Lennie Lawrence was the man who made PT successful. But PT wasn't given the time to prove he could do it on his own. A brief visit here. If we go down, do you think our crowds would stay decent ? We are losing the support that stared to come back when we got promoted twice but now they are drifting away already. We are losing circa 2 million a year with the gates we have now. I fear relegation would be probably see us closer to there not being a Rovers, as is now. The fact is that DC is very obviously angry and has been pulled up on it. A more cynical poster could deduce that he was trying to get sacked but I can only say as I see & we are in a place where, for the first time in DC’s time, this is HIS team yet he constantly sets up with players sitting deep, this encourages opposition teams to come at us. I see players heads go down when we concede now yet the previous teams would run through bricks, for the shirt. Only the true tinted spectacle wearers couldn’t deny that there is something dreadfully wrong and, since DC has his first full season in charge, we are seeing players not play up to potential let alone overachieve. Yes, there are multifaceted reasons one could use to try to rationalise this but we are just toothless, try to walk the ball into the net and we are often just physically not up to it. We are a small team and it’s why we have had more headers and set piece goals scored against us. No one is bigger than the club and that includes the manager. I’m sad to say it but this is totally his team, for the first time, they are just not working out and, like it or not, the manager has set us up to play this way. I fear January could see us much further adrift as I see no bite in the team & if given the choice then I’d take the conference side over this lot but that is just my opinion. For some reason, we are coming up short and you could use one of DC’s post match interviews and it wouldn’t be very different to the others. I really don’t want us to go back to the revolving door of different managers but I’d give it 5 more games then take it from there. Hopefully we will see improvement and this will go away
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Post by tomylil on Oct 8, 2018 15:41:13 GMT
The problem is that DC simply didn't have the budget to be too choosy about recruits. No idea if there is a rift in the dressing room, but i'm not aware of a queue lining up to sign all of our players so a good number owe DC for playing in the football league and should therefore pull their fingers out. DC cuts a miserable figure and has done for a while now. He probably regrets not taking up the Leeds offer, and you have to wonder what promises were made that ultimately kept him here, and which have clearly not been honoured. I can't think of anyone else who could do as good a job as him with the resources available to be honest. How much was DC budget? Good question.I assume next to nothing as I can't see much evidence to suggest the Harrison money has all been spent on players, and most pf the new boys have been recruited on frees.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 16:51:54 GMT
Good question.I assume next to nothing as I can't see much evidence to suggest the Harrison money has all been spent on players, and most pf the new boys have been recruited on frees. We're losing £2m a year so it's a given player sales won't be ploughed back in to the transfer kitty. What is clear is that DC has had reasonable financial backing to develop the squad, including over £500k on a two strikers who barely look Football League standard at this point in time. Clearly major mistakes have been made on the recruitment side. Upson, Rodman, Payne etc won't be on insignificant wages. I'd still back DC to put things right however. He's the best man to turn this around and I certainly wouldn't want us to go down the route of changing the manager, regardless if we got relegated.
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Post by lpgas on Oct 8, 2018 18:47:48 GMT
Ok so there are some go's and some stays. Question is "if we are in the bottom 4 at Christmas" do we get rid so that a new manager can bring in some players OR do we leave it like Higgs did until the window is closed, then sack him? I truly believe this is his last season, Lets face it the third season in league one and what do we have? A squad that is unbalanced with too many central midfielders, a squad with too many mediorcre players, a squad that in my opinion is far too big, and a squad that is worse than the one we came up with. You've forgotten the third and best option...back him in January to turn it around. How can you back him? He has already reached the EFL limit, so unless someone comes in and buys a few player then he cannot bring in anymore, he has maxed out the limit
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Post by lpgas on Oct 8, 2018 18:50:41 GMT
The very wise Yoda once said something along the lines of "failure is a great teacher". Francis had a terrible start at Exeter, Buckle and Atkins had much success before joining us. Who would you rather have? DC has done an unbelievable job. He has had a lot of success and with his hands effectively tied by having to sell his best players. Personally, I think when Parts and Sercs are fully fit we will look a much better team and this experience will help DC be a better manager. With a bit more fortune we could have beaten Rochdale and Walsall (not saying we deserved it) but a couple of inches were all that cost us. I do worry about Marcus recruitment as I heard he recommended Gosling and Nichols. Hopefully one or stickers can nick a goal tomorrow and boost their confidence. If not DC has to have the funds to get someone like Stockley. I heard he was a major target but we just couldn't afford him. Yes Stewart recommended Nichols, lets hope he never becomes manager. We could have afforded Stockley if, we had put in Nicholls as part-ex and not wasted money on more central midfielders
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Post by orgasmic on Oct 8, 2018 19:12:18 GMT
You've forgotten the third and best option...back him in January to turn it around. How can you back him? He has already reached the EFL limit, so unless someone comes in and buys a few player then he cannot bring in anymore, he has maxed out the limit It's based on projected turnover which is due to increase as the summer projects will be paid off.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 19:26:47 GMT
You've forgotten the third and best option...back him in January to turn it around. How much time does he want to turn it around and why are we in this situation to start with Because we are in a period of transition. We've come a very long way in a short time (because of DC) and it was inevitable that it would catch us up and we would level out at some stage. Did we really believe that three promotions was achievable? Add that to the loss of his best three strikers, and it's understandable why we are struggling àt present. How long does he need? I'd say he's earned the right for a lot longer. This is the first spell of danger he's faced in this league. I think he deserves some slack.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 19:32:39 GMT
You've forgotten the third and best option...back him in January to turn it around. How can you back him? He has already reached the EFL limit, so unless someone comes in and buys a few player then he cannot bring in anymore, he has maxed out the limit I admit to not knowing that. Is that true? Even if that is the case and there's genuinely no money to spend, sacking him in January or afterwards is not the answer. His record with free transfers isn't exactly bad, so as long as he's prepared to work here, I'd back him as the best man for the job.
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Post by lpgas on Oct 8, 2018 19:54:15 GMT
Good question.I assume next to nothing as I can't see much evidence to suggest the Harrison money has all been spent on players, and most pf the new boys have been recruited on frees. There is no such thing as a free transfer. Firstly they will want a signing on fee, about £25k, then they will want help with moving, or at least putting up in a hotel, then there is insurance and that is very high, especially if you have a history of injuries, then there is N.I tax, bonus payments ect
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Post by lpgas on Oct 8, 2018 19:55:09 GMT
How can you back him? He has already reached the EFL limit, so unless someone comes in and buys a few player then he cannot bring in anymore, he has maxed out the limit I admit to not knowing that. Is that true? Even if that is the case and there's genuinely no money to spend, sacking him in January or afterwards is not the answer. His record with free transfers isn't exactly bad, so as long as he's prepared to work here, I'd back him as the best man for the job. Thats why Mensah was sent out on loan so we could get a goalie in
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Oct 8, 2018 19:56:06 GMT
You've forgotten the third and best option...back him in January to turn it around. How can you back him? He has already reached the EFL limit, so unless someone comes in and buys a few player then he cannot bring in anymore, he has maxed out the limit The owners will have to donate some money then.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 20:00:31 GMT
How can you back him? He has already reached the EFL limit, so unless someone comes in and buys a few player then he cannot bring in anymore, he has maxed out the limit The owners will have to donate some money then. Not to worry Pirate I am sure the enquiries for TN have been flooding in already. The proverbial stick is simply not big enough to beat them all away. We will have funds.
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Post by blueblood1883 on Oct 8, 2018 20:15:30 GMT
I think that's a good point, but whichever way you look at it his squad rotation has got us promoted in successive seasons and two respectable finishes in league one.. Say what you like about Harrison but he was a character in the changing room and in my opinion I believe Payne is the exact opposite, don't want to single just him out but his attitude just appears all wrong for a paid professional.. and as mentioned, could this be part of the problem?... The problem is that DC simply didn't have the budget to be too choosy about recruits. No idea if there is a rift in the dressing room, but i'm not aware of a queue lining up to sign all of our players so a good number owe DC for playing in the football league and should therefore pull their fingers out. DC cuts a miserable figure and has done for a while now. He probably regrets not taking up the Leeds offer, and you have to wonder what promises were made that ultimately kept him here, and which have clearly not been honoured. I can't think of anyone else who could do as good a job as him with the resources available to be honest. And I absolutely agree with you and the points you make...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 20:21:23 GMT
I admit to not knowing that. Is that true? Even if that is the case and there's genuinely no money to spend, sacking him in January or afterwards is not the answer. His record with free transfers isn't exactly bad, so as long as he's prepared to work here, I'd back him as the best man for the job. Thats why Mensah was sent out on loan so we could get a goalie in Not doubting you as I probably just missed it, but how do you know this?
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Oct 8, 2018 20:28:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 20:31:13 GMT
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