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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 7, 2018 21:50:11 GMT
Interesting comparisons between DC and Paul Trollope here. We now seem to be in a similar position to the one PT found himself in during his fourth season in L1, and he was sacked before Christmas. DC is in his third season in L1 and we are in a relegation position. PT managed an 11th place in his third season. PT gave us one promotion, a Wembley final and an FA Cup quarter final. DC has given us two promotions. DC is a legend and must not be sacked even if we go down, according to some. PT was useless after LL left and was ripe for sacking, according to some. In fact most posters seem to share this view. My opinion is that owners and fans are far too quick to decide that managers should be sacked, without giving them a chance to turn things around. I agree with the opinion that DC should not be sacked, even if we go down this season. He should be given the chance to prove he can get us promoted again, and if we do get relegated, I would not even think about replacing him until December 2109, and then only if we are clearly not going to get promoted. I also think the Board were far too quick to sack PT. He had managed to get us a promotion and the other things I mentioned, and should not have been dumped in December 2010 when we had plenty of time to turn things around. It went well after he left, didn't it? I just compare the two men and wonder why one is dismissed as a footnote and the other is a legend. And I know many will say Lennie Lawrence was the man who made PT successful. But PT wasn't given the time to prove he could do it on his own. Did you go to Walsall during PT's last season? It was pretty obvious to anybody who did go PT had completely lost the changing room and there's no way he would have turned us around. At the moment DC's team are still battling for him, we just need the rub of the green. If we'd had a bit of the Accrington promotion game luck we'd have beat both Rochdale and Walsall this week!
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Post by aghast on Oct 7, 2018 22:08:10 GMT
Did you go to Walsall during PT's last season? It was pretty obvious to anybody who did go PT had completely lost the changing room and there's no way he would have turned us around. At the moment DC's team are still battling for him, we just need the rub of the green. If we'd had a bit of the Accrington promotion game luck we'd have beat both Rochdale and Walsall this week! Well that's your opinion and I respect it. But plenty of others are saying that DC has lost the plot completely, and one poster has already suggested there are two camps in the side - the old DC team and the newcomers - who are not working together. And of course midland and tbone would have his head on a stake. So what you say about PT is what others are saying about DC now. I don't mean this to turn into a historical PT thread, but the example of what happened when we dumped him too soon, and then landed in the Conference, might persuade some that dumping DC might have a similar effect.
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Post by blueblood1883 on Oct 8, 2018 4:49:59 GMT
Did you go to Walsall during PT's last season? It was pretty obvious to anybody who did go PT had completely lost the changing room and there's no way he would have turned us around. At the moment DC's team are still battling for him, we just need the rub of the green. If we'd had a bit of the Accrington promotion game luck we'd have beat both Rochdale and Walsall this week! Well that's your opinion and I respect it. But plenty of others are saying that DC has lost the plot completely, and one poster has already suggested there are two camps in the side - the old DC team and the newcomers - who are not working together. And of course midland and tbone would have his head on a stake. So what you say about PT is what others are saying about DC now. I don't mean this to turn into a historical PT thread, but the example of what happened when we dumped him too soon, and then landed in the Conference, might persuade some that dumping DC might have a similar effect. I often wonder if there is a disruptive split in the dressing room. Obviously the old DC team will have worked with DC's rotation week on week, but the newcomers won't and I'm beginning to wonder if this might just be part of the problem.
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Post by blueblood1883 on Oct 8, 2018 4:56:51 GMT
Well that's your opinion and I respect it. But plenty of others are saying that DC has lost the plot completely, and one poster has already suggested there are two camps in the side - the old DC team and the newcomers - who are not working together. And of course midland and tbone would have his head on a stake. So what you say about PT is what others are saying about DC now. I don't mean this to turn into a historical PT thread, but the example of what happened when we dumped him too soon, and then landed in the Conference, might persuade some that dumping DC might have a similar effect. I often wonder if there is a disruptive split in the dressing room. Obviously the old DC team will have worked with DC's rotation week on week, but the newcomers won't and I'm beginning to wonder if this might just be part of the problem. Edit.. Just to confirm I believe the manager will sort this mess out..
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 8, 2018 6:38:13 GMT
Well that's your opinion and I respect it. But plenty of others are saying that DC has lost the plot completely, and one poster has already suggested there are two camps in the side - the old DC team and the newcomers - who are not working together. And of course midland and tbone would have his head on a stake. So what you say about PT is what others are saying about DC now. I don't mean this to turn into a historical PT thread, but the example of what happened when we dumped him too soon, and then landed in the Conference, might persuade some that dumping DC might have a similar effect. I often wonder if there is a disruptive split in the dressing room. Obviously the old DC team will have worked with DC's rotation week on week, but the newcomers won't and I'm beginning to wonder if this might just be part of the problem. It's worth mentioning that only part of DCs squad seem to be subject to the squad rotation policy whereas others seem to play week in/week out regardless of form. That's bound to cause issues.
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Post by madgas on Oct 8, 2018 6:57:45 GMT
Sacking DC would be stupid. His squad, he put it together for a reason, and he’ll best utilise it. As of yet, (although I hold faith) there’s little suggestion that this group of players are capable of too much more. Unfortunately, that’s it.
We have 4 strikers that between them have less than 60 career FL goals. There aren’t many managers that could change that and I feel DC is most likely.
Admittedly, It’s his recruitment and he deserves credit for the good ones, and critique on the bad ones. Overall, I see good but he’s failed to replace Taylor. He’s had 3/5 windows to do it. (5 if your harsh and include Luke James, as DC said he was bought in to replace him. 3 if you’re generous and discount the deadline day window he was sold) Getting a goal scorer is hard. Given the likely budget it’s probably harder than 12 other teams. But that’s the error he’s made.
I think a question may be raised in the summer. DC and the board need to find a 15+ striker, whilst he is net + transfer spend it’s a lie to say he’s had nothing. Not utilising loan players somewhat makes them redundant. Can’t help but think we’d be better on additional non league punt.
For the first time, his position is possibly something we need to review in the summer because unless he can address the goal threat we’re declining.
To note: I believe we’ll end up playing a 4-5-1. Abd this system will eventually see us click.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 7:23:08 GMT
Interesting comparisons between DC and Paul Trollope here. We now seem to be in a similar position to the one PT found himself in during his fourth season in L1, and he was sacked before Christmas. DC is in his third season in L1 and we are in a relegation position. PT managed an 11th place in his third season. PT gave us one promotion, a Wembley final and an FA Cup quarter final. DC has given us two promotions. DC is a legend and must not be sacked even if we go down, according to some. PT was useless after LL left and was ripe for sacking, according to some. In fact most posters seem to share this view. My opinion is that owners and fans are far too quick to decide that managers should be sacked, without giving them a chance to turn things around. I agree with the opinion that DC should not be sacked, even if we go down this season. He should be given the chance to prove he can get us promoted again, and if we do get relegated, I would not even think about replacing him until December 2109, and then only if we are clearly not going to get promoted. I also think the Board were far too quick to sack PT. He had managed to get us a promotion and the other things I mentioned, and should not have been dumped in December 2010 when we had plenty of time to turn things around. It went well after he left, didn't it? I just compare the two men and wonder why one is dismissed as a footnote and the other is a legend. And I know many will say Lennie Lawrence was the man who made PT successful. But PT wasn't given the time to prove he could do it on his own. Did you go to Walsall during PT's last season? It was pretty obvious to anybody who did go PT had completely lost the changing room and there's no way he would have turned us around. At the moment DC's team are still battling for him, we just need the rub of the green. If we'd had a bit of the Accrington promotion game luck we'd have beat both Rochdale and Walsall this week! Sorry to rain on the anti PT narrative but Dave Penney was in charge for Walsall away that season, not PT. A dire performance for sure but not one PT oversaw. The comparisons seem very fair at the moment.
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Post by Jomo on Oct 8, 2018 7:48:01 GMT
Interesting comparisons between DC and Paul Trollope here. We now seem to be in a similar position to the one PT found himself in during his fourth season in L1, and he was sacked before Christmas. DC is in his third season in L1 and we are in a relegation position. PT managed an 11th place in his third season. PT gave us one promotion, a Wembley final and an FA Cup quarter final. DC has given us two promotions. DC is a legend and must not be sacked even if we go down, according to some. PT was useless after LL left and was ripe for sacking, according to some. In fact most posters seem to share this view. My opinion is that owners and fans are far too quick to decide that managers should be sacked, without giving them a chance to turn things around. I agree with the opinion that DC should not be sacked, even if we go down this season. He should be given the chance to prove he can get us promoted again, and if we do get relegated, I would not even think about replacing him until December 2109, and then only if we are clearly not going to get promoted. I also think the Board were far too quick to sack PT. He had managed to get us a promotion and the other things I mentioned, and should not have been dumped in December 2010 when we had plenty of time to turn things around. It went well after he left, didn't it? I just compare the two men and wonder why one is dismissed as a footnote and the other is a legend. And I know many will say Lennie Lawrence was the man who made PT successful. But PT wasn't given the time to prove he could do it on his own. Blimey, by 2109 I think even I would admit that DC is past it
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Post by lpgas on Oct 8, 2018 9:11:31 GMT
Ok so there are some go's and some stays. Question is "if we are in the bottom 4 at Christmas" do we get rid so that a new manager can bring in some players OR do we leave it like Higgs did until the window is closed, then sack him? I truly believe this is his last season, Lets face it the third season in league one and what do we have? A squad that is unbalanced with too many central midfielders, a squad with too many mediorcre players, a squad that in my opinion is far too big, and a squad that is worse than the one we came up with.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 9:45:00 GMT
Ok so there are some go's and some stays. Question is "if we are in the bottom 4 at Christmas" do we get rid so that a new manager can bring in some players OR do we leave it like Higgs did until the window is closed, then sack him? I truly believe this is his last season, Lets face it the third season in league one and what do we have? A squad that is unbalanced with too many central midfielders, a squad with too many mediorcre players, a squad that in my opinion is far too big, and a squad that is worse than the one we came up with. You've forgotten the third and best option...back him in January to turn it around.
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Post by GasLass on Oct 8, 2018 10:04:40 GMT
I don't want to see DC go yet at all, but at the same time, I think the question maybe should be asked in the coming months.. could someone else do a better job?
Thing is... we haven't got off to the best of starts admittedly (like every season in recent years), but it could be worse..... we were very unlucky to concede last minute on Saturday, and yes we may as well start putting up missing posters in terms of goals, but is it all DC's fault? Is it sacking worthy?
There's been A LOT of pressure from the Board, the team have been somewhat unmotivated in places, and I think DC is feeling the stress of it all.
But there's only so much you can say to the team, they have to listen and apply that on the pitch.
On the other side, he has been making some questionable choices recently, mainly being the constant change in team sheets and always starting Nichols. (Not that I don't like Nichols, but there are strikers much more deserving of that starting position)
As DC said though after Walsall, he's not Houdini, if you have to sell your best players you gotta make best with what you have! That's not to discredit the boys, but Bodin (RM) and Harrison (ST) two of our main contributor in terms of goals last season.. GONE, and we haven't in my opinion replaced them or the people we've got to replace them haven't reached their potential yet. I think DC just needs to kick himself up the backside and start playing the players that are showing promise - because playing good players, getting a good performance out of them and then benching them the following game does NOTHING for their confidence and sends mixed messages.. effecting moral
I think he made a good decision starting Reilly on Saturday, but Jakubiak should've been up there with him from the start, not Nichols!
I would've started Bonham, Kelly, Clarke, Broadbent, Partington, Sercombe, Clarke, Lines, Matthews, Jakubiak, Reilly - that's just my opinion of course and obviously if Lockyer was fit I'd be playing him instead of Kelly and put Clarke in Kelly's position But I do honestly feel we would've done much more with that set up, we need more strength and MUCH MORE WIDTH!! I was soooo frustrated watching them all in one cluster on the east stand side of the pitch for 85% of the game
Our attack is lacking and I think that's the main problem at the moment, but its also something that can be fixed, it's still early doors, I think we're being to pre-emptive here
I'm on one today guys, I'm sorry!
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Post by midlandgas213 on Oct 8, 2018 10:12:47 GMT
Ok so there are some go's and some stays. Question is "if we are in the bottom 4 at Christmas" do we get rid so that a new manager can bring in some players OR do we leave it like Higgs did until the window is closed, then sack him? I truly believe this is his last season, Lets face it the third season in league one and what do we have? A squad that is unbalanced with too many central midfielders, a squad with too many mediorcre players, a squad that in my opinion is far too big, and a squad that is worse than the one we came up with. You've forgotten the third and best option...back him in January to turn it around. How much time does he want to turn it around and why are we in this situation to start with
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Post by gashead1981 on Oct 8, 2018 11:06:22 GMT
You've forgotten the third and best option...back him in January to turn it around. How much time does he want to turn it around and why are we in this situation to start with 1. More than 15 games, less than 30. 2. He isn’t perfect and won’t always get it right with the crap budget and facilities he has to work with. We have no Devine right to be top 6 every year. How’s your manager replacement hunt going btw?
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 8, 2018 11:17:29 GMT
I don't want to see DC go yet at all, but at the same time, I think the question maybe should be asked in the coming months.. could someone else do a better job? Thing is... we haven't got off to the best of starts admittedly (like every season in recent years), but it could be worse..... we were very unlucky to concede last minute on Saturday, and yes we may as well start putting up missing posters in terms of goals, but is it all DC's fault? Is it sacking worthy? There's been A LOT of pressure from the Board, the team have been somewhat unmotivated in places, and I think DC is feeling the stress of it all. But there's only so much you can say to the team, they have to listen and apply that on the pitch. On the other side, he has been making some questionable choices recently, mainly being the constant change in team sheets and always starting Nichols. (Not that I don't like Nichols, but there are strikers much more deserving of that starting position) As DC said though after Walsall, he's not Houdini, if you have to sell your best players you gotta make best with what you have! That's not to discredit the boys, but Bodin (RM) and Harrison (ST) two of our main contributor in terms of goals last season.. GONE, and we haven't in my opinion replaced them or the people we've got to replace them haven't reached their potential yet. I think DC just needs to kick himself up the backside and start playing the players that are showing promise - because playing good players, getting a good performance out of them and then benching them the following game does NOTHING for their confidence and sends mixed messages.. effecting moral I think he made a good decision starting Reilly on Saturday, but Jakubiak should've been up there with him from the start, not Nichols! I would've started Bonham, Kelly, Clarke, Broadbent, Partington, Sercombe, Clarke, Lines, Matthews, Jakubiak, Reilly - that's just my opinion of course and obviously if Lockyer was fit I'd be playing him instead of Kelly and put Clarke in Kelly's position But I do honestly feel we would've done much more with that set up, we need more strength and MUCH MORE WIDTH!! I was soooo frustrated watching them all in one cluster on the east stand side of the pitch for 85% of the game Our attack is lacking and I think that's the main problem at the moment, but its also something that can be fixed, it's still early doors, I think we're being to pre-emptive here I'm on one today guys, I'm sorry! But what if DC has started Sercs & Matthews and both had pulled out injured and where then out for another month? DC said he reverted to the Coventry front 6 line up and you can't really criticise that decision, unfortunately Sincs on the wing was as poor as he was good v Coventry. What I can't understand is what happened to Payne was he injured on Tuesday or just overlooked for selection, not sure about a suggested split with the new players as Rodman apparently as personal issues, Payne was a regular starter until his loss of form, so only really Upson can be too upset about lack of game time but if anything that's down to OC's return to form.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 11:37:34 GMT
How much time does he want to turn it around and why are we in this situation to start with 1. More than 15 games, less than 30. 2. He isn’t perfect and won’t always get it right with the crap budget and facilities he has to work with. We have no Devine right to be top 6 every year. How’s your manager replacement hunt going btw? How much budget DC got or had?
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Post by GasLass on Oct 8, 2018 11:41:53 GMT
I don't want to see DC go yet at all, but at the same time, I think the question maybe should be asked in the coming months.. could someone else do a better job? Thing is... we haven't got off to the best of starts admittedly (like every season in recent years), but it could be worse..... we were very unlucky to concede last minute on Saturday, and yes we may as well start putting up missing posters in terms of goals, but is it all DC's fault? Is it sacking worthy? There's been A LOT of pressure from the Board, the team have been somewhat unmotivated in places, and I think DC is feeling the stress of it all. But there's only so much you can say to the team, they have to listen and apply that on the pitch. On the other side, he has been making some questionable choices recently, mainly being the constant change in team sheets and always starting Nichols. (Not that I don't like Nichols, but there are strikers much more deserving of that starting position) As DC said though after Walsall, he's not Houdini, if you have to sell your best players you gotta make best with what you have! That's not to discredit the boys, but Bodin (RM) and Harrison (ST) two of our main contributor in terms of goals last season.. GONE, and we haven't in my opinion replaced them or the people we've got to replace them haven't reached their potential yet. I think DC just needs to kick himself up the backside and start playing the players that are showing promise - because playing good players, getting a good performance out of them and then benching them the following game does NOTHING for their confidence and sends mixed messages.. effecting moral I think he made a good decision starting Reilly on Saturday, but Jakubiak should've been up there with him from the start, not Nichols! I would've started Bonham, Kelly, Clarke, Broadbent, Partington, Sercombe, Clarke, Lines, Matthews, Jakubiak, Reilly - that's just my opinion of course and obviously if Lockyer was fit I'd be playing him instead of Kelly and put Clarke in Kelly's position But I do honestly feel we would've done much more with that set up, we need more strength and MUCH MORE WIDTH!! I was soooo frustrated watching them all in one cluster on the east stand side of the pitch for 85% of the game Our attack is lacking and I think that's the main problem at the moment, but its also something that can be fixed, it's still early doors, I think we're being to pre-emptive here I'm on one today guys, I'm sorry! But what if DC has started Sercs & Matthews and both had pulled out injured and where then out for another month? DC said he reverted to the Coventry front 6 line up and you can't really criticise that decision, unfortunately Sincs on the wing was as poor as he was good v Coventry. What I can't understand is what happened to Payne was he injured on Tuesday or just overlooked for selection, not sure about a suggested split with the new players as Rodman apparently as personal issues, Payne was a regular starter until his loss of form, so only really Upson can be too upset about lack of game time but if anything that's down to OC's return to form. Saying about Sercs and Matthews is purely hypothetical I can see your point about being reserved with his choice of team, but when we haven't had a goal for 2 games prior and literally like 2 wins all season sometimes you have to revert to putting your best team forward In regards to Payne, his form has been bad and his enthusiasm is lacking, maybe he asked for a few games off we don't know But in my opinion the best foot forward would've been jakubiak and reilly up front or payne and reilly with a possible jakubiak substitution later on in the match OC's form has been unquestionable so can't really comment on that but sympathise with Upson on not having as much game time And as much as I love Sinclair he wasn't great down the wing that day and should've been subbed off earlier
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Oct 8, 2018 11:52:22 GMT
In Matthews we have a ray of light amongst the doom and gloom. I like the way he wanted to take responsibility with that free kick, which so nearly payed dividends. For those who have seen more of him than me, is he an out and out winger, or another who may like that ‘number 10’ role.
With the lack of quality and confidence up front there has to be a temptation to say to Sercombe or Matthews, play just behind the striker and take the game by the scruff of the neck.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 8, 2018 12:09:57 GMT
I haven't seen anything in Matthew's game to suggest he's a No 10 he looks natural right sided midfielder, I guess some will say he's not a winger but I can't see he's strong enough at present to hold down a CM role. No idea why posters think Sercs can play at No 10!
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Post by Henbury Gas on Oct 8, 2018 12:54:42 GMT
Living in the past. Another manager that has lost his touch.. shouldn't go near him. People forgetting DC never shafted us when Leeds and others came knocking. The shambles behind the scenes has filtered through to playing side. Give DC more time. How much f**king time does he need About the same amount of time you have posted bullsh!t on here
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Post by oviedista on Oct 8, 2018 13:08:29 GMT
You've forgotten the third and best option...back him in January to turn it around. How much time does he want to turn it around and why are we in this situation to start with Easy - because we were promoted twice.
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