|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 3, 2019 7:24:42 GMT
OMG.. oldie who goes out of his way to defend Islam compares Islamic terrorism,sharia courts, sharia patrols,FGM,raging homophobia,ritually slaughtered meat,sexism,racist underage rape attacks,racist grooming gangs, murder,misogyny and honour killings to events that happened in 1945 or have happened in Catholic communities by priests in a desperate pathetic attempt to excuse Muslims for being part of a vile backward demonic cult that results in misery and violence wherever the cult has reared its ugly head. You are a disgrace Oldie as is anyone else who uses Christianity to defend brutal barbarism within islam.... Extreme Islam is a problem and something that should be confronted and not accepted in this country but I personally don't agree that the way to do it is to use extreme language and hold extreme views which is what you constantly espouse. Sexism, child abuse, rape, homophobia and animal rights are not exclusively Muslim issues. The portrayal of Islam as a backwards demonic cult is rather childish, stupid and unhelpful.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 7:34:13 GMT
OMG.. oldie who goes out of his way to defend Islam compares Islamic terrorism,sharia courts, sharia patrols,FGM,raging homophobia,ritually slaughtered meat,sexism,racist underage rape attacks,racist grooming gangs, murder,misogyny and honour killings to events that happened in 1945 or have happened in Catholic communities by priests in a desperate pathetic attempt to excuse Muslims for being part of a vile backward demonic cult that results in misery and violence wherever the cult has reared its ugly head. You are a disgrace Oldie as is anyone else who uses Christianity to defend brutal barbarism within islam.... Extreme Islam is a problem and something that should be confronted and not accepted in this country but I personally don't agree that the way to do it is to use extreme language and hold extreme views which is what you constantly espouse. Sexism, child abuse, rape, homophobia and animal rights are not exclusively Muslim issues. The portrayal of Islam as a backwards demonic cult is rather childish, stupid and unhelpful.I've got to disagree with you there Hugo. The Islamic view on women and gays make it something that is totally incompatible with our Western values and outlook on life.
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 3, 2019 8:38:09 GMT
Extreme Islam is a problem and something that should be confronted and not accepted in this country but I personally don't agree that the way to do it is to use extreme language and hold extreme views which is what you constantly espouse. Sexism, child abuse, rape, homophobia and animal rights are not exclusively Muslim issues. The portrayal of Islam as a backwards demonic cult is rather childish, stupid and unhelpful.I've got to disagree with you there Hugo. The Islamic view on women and gays make it something that is totally incompatible with our Western values and outlook on life. Yes it is, I agree but it's still unhelpful to use such loaded language to describe it. Calling it a backwards demonic cult is trivialising the real issues that could and should be discussed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 8:57:03 GMT
I've got to disagree with you there Hugo. The Islamic view on women and gays make it something that is totally incompatible with our Western values and outlook on life. Yes it is, I agree but it's still unhelpful to use such loaded language to describe it. Calling it a backwards demonic cult is trivialising the real issues that could and should be discussed. So, why do we allow something that treats women like second class citizens? If I, as a "normal guy" (not sure what the accepted PC way is describing me is), were to espouse the same views, I'd be vilified, and rightly so. Why do we not only allow it, but why are 'we' also complicit in this crime against equality?
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 3, 2019 9:12:12 GMT
Yes it is, I agree but it's still unhelpful to use such loaded language to describe it. Calling it a backwards demonic cult is trivialising the real issues that could and should be discussed. So, why do we allow something that treats women like second class citizens? If I, as a "normal guy" (not sure what the accepted PC way is describing me is), were to espouse the same views, I'd be vilified, and rightly so. Why do we not only allow it, but why are 'we' also complicit in this crime against equality? Honestly, because people like Jaggas are doing more harm than good. It's something more moderate people should be raising. I also believe the hard left are very much to blame for stifling debate and discussion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 9:43:55 GMT
Different people have different ways of putting their views across. You may agree with the way some people express their views, and you may disagree with the way others speak, but the underlying message regarding Islam and Women and Gay Rights is the same isn't it? Why do we allow it?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 9:52:51 GMT
It becomes a sad state of affairs when we demand that the State imposes laws that interfere with our rights to choose what we believe in. Of course we have built up a Statute Book which makes illegal some of the more extreme practices which are undertaken within some cultures, of course we should relentlessly enforce in our country. People who migrate here should understand and live within our laws or be prosecuted, rightly so. The problem I have is the mass vilification of any one religion based upon the extreme acts and practices of a small minority who hold that faith. This vilification generally comes from the political extremes in the UK. And, generally, comes from a position of an extreme level ignorance, laughably on a par with the people who practice versions of a religion they are vilifying! Take Jaggas, ignoring his obvious racist beliefs (based upon his comments here) he vilifies Islam, but I would like to know why. Has he ever spent time in a country where Islam is the predominate faith? Has he had a personal experience of an extreme act, or statement to him personally, which informs his views? Has he ever sat with a person who holds Islam as their faith and discussed why he feels this way? I have asked versions of these questions many times and he doesn't respond. To me that suggests he has none of the above. So what informs his views?. It can only be the media in the UK. The media concentrates on single acts of extremism and he then conflates those acts across all of Islam, ignoring the fact that Muslims in general abhor extremism and acts of violence. He will then try to quote translations from the Quran, a book I would wager he has never read.
So the point is, we do need to confront religious extremism but we don't win that argument by presenting our case from a basis of laughable ignorance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 10:24:48 GMT
Indeed we do Stuart but the threat is always there and, just like being involved in a car accident or crossing the road as they say, if you are unlucky enough you may well be involved as the point I was trying to make. The bigot asked the question. Peoples lives have been ruined by the spread of Islam, it’s as simple as that and a sad fact. The point being the risk and the perception are two different things. What are the chances? Something like 1 in million for a terrorist attack, 1 in 250 for an RTA? Why divert from the question which Oldie asked? I highlighted one example from hundreds where someone’s life has been broken by Islam. There is no argument just a fact I’m afraid no matter how you want to water it down.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 11:35:11 GMT
The point being the risk and the perception are two different things. What are the chances? Something like 1 in million for a terrorist attack, 1 in 250 for an RTA? Why divert from the question which Oldie asked? I highlighted one example from hundreds where someone’s life has been broken by Islam. There is no argument just a fact I’m afraid no matter how you want to water it down. Broken by Islam or a minority, sometimes cultural, interpretation of Islam? Plus, your experience, or regurgitated conflation?
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Jan 3, 2019 11:36:39 GMT
The point being the risk and the perception are two different things. What are the chances? Something like 1 in million for a terrorist attack, 1 in 250 for an RTA? Why divert from the question which Oldie asked? I highlighted one example from hundreds where someone’s life has been broken by Islam. There is no argument just a fact I’m afraid no matter how you want to water it down. Not trying to divert anything, merely pointing out that Jaggas's blanket accusations do not reflect reality. Do you see a difference between Islam (or indeed any religion) in genetal and those who take an extreme view to justify certain actions? Are all followers of Islam terrorists who wish to do or condone bad things to non believers? The world is not black and white, there are many, many shades of grey.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 11:51:57 GMT
Why divert from the question which Oldie asked? I highlighted one example from hundreds where someone’s life has been broken by Islam. There is no argument just a fact I’m afraid no matter how you want to water it down. Not trying to divert anything, merely pointing out that Jaggas's blanket accusations do not reflect reality. Do you see a difference between Islam (or indeed any religion) in genetal and those who take an extreme view to justify certain actions? Are all followers of Islam terrorists who wish to do or condone bad things to non believers? The world is not black and white, there are many, many shades of grey. I personally have had a few things happen to me. I was once in a relationship with an Iranian woman who lived in Frankfurt. Her Father was Iraqi and her Mother was Afghan (it might have been the other way round, but I can't remember!) and she was born and brought up in Tehran. Her Father had bought her an apartment in Tehran, so she had to return for a visit. I accompanied her and this proved to be a problem. We visited several members of her extended family. Some welcomed me and were very polite, others, including her Father, refused to allow me to enter their homes and wouldn't even see me nor speak to me. Another time, in Frankfurt, we were returning home after a night out after having a few drinks. The taxi driver spoke to her in Farsi, she replied......then he started shouting, and I mean really shouting in a loud aggressive manner, he then pulled the taxi over and demanded we get out. Apparently, it was because she was with me. Neither were terrorist incidents, but they left a nasty taste in the mouth.
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Jan 3, 2019 12:21:05 GMT
Not trying to divert anything, merely pointing out that Jaggas's blanket accusations do not reflect reality. Do you see a difference between Islam (or indeed any religion) in genetal and those who take an extreme view to justify certain actions? Are all followers of Islam terrorists who wish to do or condone bad things to non believers? The world is not black and white, there are many, many shades of grey. I personally have had a few things happen to me. I was once in a relationship with an Iranian woman who lived in Frankfurt. Her Father was Iraqi and her Mother was Afghan (it might have been the other way round, but I can't remember!) and she was born and brought up in Tehran. Her Father had bought her an apartment in Tehran, so she had to return for a visit. I accompanied her and this proved to be a problem. We visited several members of her extended family. Some welcomed me and were very polite, others, including her Father, refused to allow me to enter their homes and wouldn't even see me nor speak to me. Another time, in Frankfurt, we were returning home after a night out after having a few drinks. The taxi driver spoke to her in Farsi, she replied......then he started shouting, and I mean really shouting in a loud aggressive manner, he then pulled the taxi over and demanded we get out. Apparently, it was because she was with me. Neither were terrorist incidents, but they left a nasty taste in the mouth. Religion, faith and belief had nothing to do with it, they just didn't like you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 12:46:02 GMT
I personally have had a few things happen to me. I was once in a relationship with an Iranian woman who lived in Frankfurt. Her Father was Iraqi and her Mother was Afghan (it might have been the other way round, but I can't remember!) and she was born and brought up in Tehran. Her Father had bought her an apartment in Tehran, so she had to return for a visit. I accompanied her and this proved to be a problem. We visited several members of her extended family. Some welcomed me and were very polite, others, including her Father, refused to allow me to enter their homes and wouldn't even see me nor speak to me. Another time, in Frankfurt, we were returning home after a night out after having a few drinks. The taxi driver spoke to her in Farsi, she replied......then he started shouting, and I mean really shouting in a loud aggressive manner, he then pulled the taxi over and demanded we get out. Apparently, it was because she was with me. Neither were terrorist incidents, but they left a nasty taste in the mouth. Religion, faith and belief had nothing to do with it, they just didn't like you. At least I've got you in my life Bags...... Oh christ, where's the Mess Webley........
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Jan 3, 2019 12:49:29 GMT
Religion, faith and belief had nothing to do with it, they just didn't like you. At least I've got you in my life Bags...... Oh christ, where's the Mess Webley........ Back and to the left.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 12:52:16 GMT
At least I've got you in my life Bags...... Oh christ, where's the Mess Webley........ Back and to the left. Well then, come closer. This thing is only accurate to about thirty feet !
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Jan 3, 2019 12:58:51 GMT
Not trying to divert anything, merely pointing out that Jaggas's blanket accusations do not reflect reality. Do you see a difference between Islam (or indeed any religion) in genetal and those who take an extreme view to justify certain actions? Are all followers of Islam terrorists who wish to do or condone bad things to non believers? The world is not black and white, there are many, many shades of grey. I personally have had a few things happen to me. I was once in a relationship with an Iranian woman who lived in Frankfurt. Her Father was Iraqi and her Mother was Afghan (it might have been the other way round, but I can't remember!) and she was born and brought up in Tehran. Her Father had bought her an apartment in Tehran, so she had to return for a visit. I accompanied her and this proved to be a problem. We visited several members of her extended family. Some welcomed me and were very polite, others, including her Father, refused to allow me to enter their homes and wouldn't even see me nor speak to me. Another time, in Frankfurt, we were returning home after a night out after having a few drinks. The taxi driver spoke to her in Farsi, she replied......then he started shouting, and I mean really shouting in a loud aggressive manner, he then pulled the taxi over and demanded we get out. Apparently, it was because she was with me. Neither were terrorist incidents, but they left a nasty taste in the mouth. I knew a girl who would quite happily have casual sex with white men, but was opposed to ever marrying one. You said yourself, some welcomed you. Was the animosity due to religion, culture or generational? Me personally? My dad was in Manchester the day the IRA decided to redecorate the city centre (We didn't know he was okay until he got home) I had a friend who was in the World Trade Centre on 10 September 2001 with three generations of her family. And my wife and unborn son were on the London Tube the morning of the 7/7 bombings and 21/7 attempt. Thankfully she was on a different line.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 13:04:20 GMT
I personally have had a few things happen to me. I was once in a relationship with an Iranian woman who lived in Frankfurt. Her Father was Iraqi and her Mother was Afghan (it might have been the other way round, but I can't remember!) and she was born and brought up in Tehran. Her Father had bought her an apartment in Tehran, so she had to return for a visit. I accompanied her and this proved to be a problem. We visited several members of her extended family. Some welcomed me and were very polite, others, including her Father, refused to allow me to enter their homes and wouldn't even see me nor speak to me. Another time, in Frankfurt, we were returning home after a night out after having a few drinks. The taxi driver spoke to her in Farsi, she replied......then he started shouting, and I mean really shouting in a loud aggressive manner, he then pulled the taxi over and demanded we get out. Apparently, it was because she was with me. Neither were terrorist incidents, but they left a nasty taste in the mouth. I knew a girl who would quite happily have casual sex with white men, but was opposed to ever marrying one. You said yourself, some welcomed you. Was the animosity due to religion, culture or generational? Me personally? My dad was in Manchester the day the IRA decided to redecorate the city centre (We didn't know he was okay until he got home) I had a friend who was in the World Trade Centre on 10 September 2001 with three generations of her family. And my wife and unborn son were on the London Tube the morning of the 7/7 bombings and 21/7 attempt. Thankfully she was on a different line. There was nothing casual about our sex life. It was quite intense at times The animosity shown to me was due to religion.
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Jan 3, 2019 13:07:06 GMT
I knew a girl who would quite happily have casual sex with white men, but was opposed to ever marrying one. You said yourself, some welcomed you. Was the animosity due to religion, culture or generational? Me personally? My dad was in Manchester the day the IRA decided to redecorate the city centre (We didn't know he was okay until he got home) I had a friend who was in the World Trade Centre on 10 September 2001 with three generations of her family. And my wife and unborn son were on the London Tube the morning of the 7/7 bombings and 21/7 attempt. Thankfully she was on a different line. There was nothing casual about our sex life. It was quite intense at times The animosity shown to me was due to religion. Fez didn't help.
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 3, 2019 13:08:27 GMT
Different people have different ways of putting their views across. You may agree with the way some people express their views, and you may disagree with the way others speak, but the underlying message regarding Islam and Women and Gay Rights is the same isn't it? Why do we allow it? There is a massive difference in talking about dirty Somali scumbags squirting out muslims and talking about how better to integrate different groups into society!! I've said it many times before, SOME of the issues raised may well be true, relevant or at least worth discussing but not with right wing racists and not with looney left wing snowflakes. Neither add anything to the debate.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 13:17:33 GMT
Different people have different ways of putting their views across. You may agree with the way some people express their views, and you may disagree with the way others speak, but the underlying message regarding Islam and Women and Gay Rights is the same isn't it? Why do we allow it? There is a massive difference in talking about dirty Somali scumbags squirting out muslims and talking about how better to integrate different groups into society!! I've said it many times before, SOME of the issues raised may well be true, relevant or at least worth discussing but not with right wing racists and not with looney left wing snowflakes.Neither add anything to the debate. That's you out of this debate Baggins !
|
|