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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 11:36:45 GMT
Perhaps some proper analysis needs to be done on why people are using the food banks? I suspect the majority are long term benefit recipients who chose to start a family expecting the state to fund it. Like I said earlier anyone who has fallen on hard times, such as losing their job or becoming genuinely ill, have my every sympathy. Im not some heartless bar steward. My view on benefit is that it it's great benefit to society, particularly when people have genuine illness or long term disability. Those in that bracket should receive twice as much as they current do. The issue for me is that rather than a "last resort" benefit has become a lifestyle choice for many and we are now one or two generations down a line where that is seen as an acceptable choice. Interesting that on the NHS debate with OB, you preferred real world experience to in-depth analysis he posted yet on food banks you prefer an in depth analysis to real world experience. Have I missed something? Not at all. Ill health was not something of my choosing, it just happened, but enabled me to have real life experience of the NHS and form an opinion based upon that. I've never had the need to use a food bank, if I did fall on hard times I would strip out all non essentials and prioritise keeping dry, warm and fed. I don't think my presence at a food back merely to have a nose around would go down too well. Without that real experience I can only form opinion based on what I read and see in things such as the type of documentaries I referred to. |
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Austerity
Mar 29, 2019 11:42:36 GMT
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 29, 2019 11:42:36 GMT
Do you trust a TV show to pick a typical Food Bank user or a family that will provide fodder to make their show appalling to the masses? Food banks only provide food for up to a maximum of 3 visits, generally giving 2 days worth of basic foodstuffs. It's a very different need to that of people who are claiming long term and regular benefits. They really only deal with immediate need and only provide food on referral from a GP, social worker etc. Any of us could find ourselves needing their services and the work they do for desperate people in need should not get lumped in with the general debate around career benefit abuse. I only know a this because I was lucky enough to have the Manager of our local food bank come in one evening to talk to my Cub Scouts about the work they do. It was fascinating and I have to say, I was re-educated on a lot of my own preconceived notions. I've also never know a group of 8-10yr olds stay so quiet and engaged for an hour. It certainly made me change my view of food banks and I always chuck in a tin or 2 of something every week with my shopping. Perhaps some proper analysis needs to be done on why people are using the food banks? I suspect the majority are long term benefit recipients who chose to start a family expecting the state to fund it. Like I said earlier anyone who has fallen on hard times, such as losing their job or becoming genuinely ill, have my every sympathy. Im not some heartless bar steward. My view on benefit is that it it's great benefit to society, particularly when people have genuine illness or long term disability. Those in that bracket should receive twice as much as they current do. The issue for me is that rather than a "last resort" benefit has become a lifestyle choice for many and we are now one or two generations down a line where that is seen as an acceptable choice. I think maybe I wasnt clear, my whole point was that food banks were not necessarily used by people on benefits. They are essentially an emergency service that people can access BEFORE they eventually get access to benefits or are able to support themselves. People that have had an accident, lost their job, left an abusive relationship or suffered some sort of illness or had their benefits stopped and no longer have the means to feed themselves or their families. The guy explained that a typical user only gets access to a food bank for a couple of weeks maximum. |
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Mar 29, 2019 11:52:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 11:52:33 GMT
Perhaps some proper analysis needs to be done on why people are using the food banks? I suspect the majority are long term benefit recipients who chose to start a family expecting the state to fund it. Like I said earlier anyone who has fallen on hard times, such as losing their job or becoming genuinely ill, have my every sympathy. Im not some heartless bar steward. My view on benefit is that it it's great benefit to society, particularly when people have genuine illness or long term disability. Those in that bracket should receive twice as much as they current do. The issue for me is that rather than a "last resort" benefit has become a lifestyle choice for many and we are now one or two generations down a line where that is seen as an acceptable choice. Interesting that on the NHS debate with OB, you preferred real world experience to in-depth analysis he posted yet on food banks you prefer an in depth analysis to real world experience. Have I missed something? Hugo, thank you. Stuart, no you have not. It's about a selective choosing of "entertainment" driven information which informs an already pre conceived idea of what is right. The language chosen to describe people FORCED to use food and clothes banks is straight off Jeremy Kyle. Nuff said. |
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Austerity
Mar 29, 2019 12:38:41 GMT
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Post by baggins on Mar 29, 2019 12:38:41 GMT
Interesting that on the NHS debate with OB, you preferred real world experience to in-depth analysis he posted yet on food banks you prefer an in depth analysis to real world experience. Have I missed something? Not at all. Ill health was not something of my choosing, it just happened, but enabled me to have real life experience of the NHS and form an opinion based upon that. I've never had the need to use a food bank, if I did fall on hard times I would strip out all non essentials and prioritise keeping dry, warm and fed. I don't think my presence at a food back merely to have a nose around would go down too well. Without that real experience I can only form opinion based on what I read and see in things such as the type of documentaries I referred to. You must feel unbelievibly grateful that despite the cull of 120,000 nurses since the Tories took power, you were still looked after. How about giving them a pay rise every year? |
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Austerity
Mar 29, 2019 13:03:06 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 29, 2019 13:03:06 GMT
Interesting that on the NHS debate with OB, you preferred real world experience to in-depth analysis he posted yet on food banks you prefer an in depth analysis to real world experience. Have I missed something? Not at all. Ill health was not something of my choosing, it just happened, but enabled me to have real life experience of the NHS and form an opinion based upon that. I've never had the need to use a food bank, if I did fall on hard times I would strip out all non essentials and prioritise keeping dry, warm and fed. I don't think my presence at a food back merely to have a nose around would go down too well. Without that real experience I can only form opinion based on what I read and see in things such as the type of documentaries I referred to. I find it difficult to fault the paediatric services I have encountered. A friend lost her dad and couldn't find one good thing to say about geriatric care. Which if us is right? In truth it is neither and both, searching out some evidence at the exclusion of others is confirmation bias. Some flout the rules, there are many others in desperate need. Keep things in perspective. I would recommend listening more widely and be willing to vary your opinions as situations change. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 13:35:08 GMT
Not at all. Ill health was not something of my choosing, it just happened, but enabled me to have real life experience of the NHS and form an opinion based upon that. I've never had the need to use a food bank, if I did fall on hard times I would strip out all non essentials and prioritise keeping dry, warm and fed. I don't think my presence at a food back merely to have a nose around would go down too well. Without that real experience I can only form opinion based on what I read and see in things such as the type of documentaries I referred to. You must feel unbelievibly grateful that despite the cull of 120,000 nurses since the Tories took power, you were still looked after. How about giving them a pay rise every year? I am grateful to the NHS and having been a regular visitor to Frenchay, then Southmead and more recently the Bristol Heart Institute over the past twenty years - at no point have I noticed any deterioration in service. With respect to pay rises I wouldn't mind one myself. My employer, the largest provider of Group Insurance in the UK, has not moved the salary bands since 2008 - the reason being uncertainty due to the financial crisis. I expect they will now maintain their stance for another 10 years using 'brexit uncertainty' as their excuse! |
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Austerity
Mar 29, 2019 13:43:31 GMT
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Post by baggins on Mar 29, 2019 13:43:31 GMT
You must feel unbelievibly grateful that despite the cull of 120,000 nurses since the Tories took power, you were still looked after. How about giving them a pay rise every year? I am grateful to the NHS and having been a regular visitor to Frenchay, then Southmead and more recently the Bristol Heart Institute over the past twenty years - at no point have I noticed any deterioration in service. With respect to pay rises I wouldn't mind one myself. My employer, the largest provider of Group Insurance in the UK, has not moved the salary bands since 2008 - the reason being uncertainty due to the financial crisis. I expect they will now maintain their stance for another 10 years using 'brexit uncertainty' as their excuse! The financial crisis brought on by who? Oh yea, the Tories. And Group Insurance is hardly on the front line of, um, saving peoples lives is it? Any idea how much an NHS Nurse earns per hour and how many hours per week they work? On a seperate note, hope you're ok, disagrements to one side, really hope you're ok. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 13:45:26 GMT
Not at all. Ill health was not something of my choosing, it just happened, but enabled me to have real life experience of the NHS and form an opinion based upon that. I've never had the need to use a food bank, if I did fall on hard times I would strip out all non essentials and prioritise keeping dry, warm and fed. I don't think my presence at a food back merely to have a nose around would go down too well. Without that real experience I can only form opinion based on what I read and see in things such as the type of documentaries I referred to. I find it difficult to fault the paediatric services I have encountered. A friend lost her dad and couldn't find one good thing to say about geriatric care. Which if us is right? In truth it is neither and both, searching out some evidence at the exclusion of others is confirmation bias. Some flout the rules, there are many others in desperate need. Keep things in perspective. I would recommend listening more widely and be willing to vary your opinions as situations change. I can only take the NHS on what I find. I've not gone searching for evidence of anything - I'll leave that to certain Remainers on the brexit thread who clearly exclude other views reaching "confirmation bias" The one negative of the NHS I've personally come across recently was an Aunt who fell on the stairs before Xmas and had to wait 12 hours for an ambulance. It transpired that she fractured her femur and hip requiring surgery the next day with a fair bit of metalwork. The treatment at Bath RUH has been very good, including after care. The ambulance delay was a disgrace but I suspect more about poor prioritisation than evil Tory cuts. A friend has recently enrolled for paramedic training and was surprised about a service agreement (I think it was a one hour maximum) to attend to drug addicts who may, or may not, have taken an overdose. Often being called out to the same people several times in a day! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 13:58:41 GMT
I am grateful to the NHS and having been a regular visitor to Frenchay, then Southmead and more recently the Bristol Heart Institute over the past twenty years - at no point have I noticed any deterioration in service. With respect to pay rises I wouldn't mind one myself. My employer, the largest provider of Group Insurance in the UK, has not moved the salary bands since 2008 - the reason being uncertainty due to the financial crisis. I expect they will now maintain their stance for another 10 years using 'brexit uncertainty' as their excuse! The financial crisis brought on by who? Oh yea, the Tories. And Group Insurance is hardly on the front line of, um, saving peoples lives is it? Any idea how much an NHS Nurse earns per hour and how many hours per week they work? On a seperate note, hope you're ok, disagrements to one side, really hope you're ok. Group Income Protection replacing an income when someone has long term sickness or a lump sum critical illness payment when a serious illness has been diagnosed is probably seen as a very valuable saviour to those millions who have that cover provided by their employers. Anyway, that argument about nurses pay gets trotted out all the time, every time a footballer signs a new contract, how many nurses can you get for that, a banker gets a bonus, how many nurses can you get for that....... The financial crisis started in 2008 on the back of Blair/Browns regimes, remember the note left in treasury laughing about all the money having gone. It was actually far worse than that as their spending splurge had largely been made on credit card. Add to that Brown's regulatory changes to banking, robbing pension schemes and egging on RBS's takeover for was it HBOS? on the health issues thanks for enquiring. All stable with a long term autoimmune condition and off to see a cardiothoracic surgeon on Monday when I should get an idea of when my aortic valve and part of my aorta will be replaced - should be in the next 3-6 months. It's all a bit gory but watch a video on YouTube of this, or any major surgery, and the number of highly paid medical professionals and the hugely costly multiple bits of kit required and we get a good idea of how much it costs to run the NHS in the modern era. All a bit different to when the NHS was set up when most things were fixed with penicillin or a band aid! |
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Austerity
Mar 29, 2019 14:03:10 GMT
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Post by baggins on Mar 29, 2019 14:03:10 GMT
The financial crisis brought on by who? Oh yea, the Tories. And Group Insurance is hardly on the front line of, um, saving peoples lives is it? Any idea how much an NHS Nurse earns per hour and how many hours per week they work? On a seperate note, hope you're ok, disagrements to one side, really hope you're ok. Group Income Protection replacing an income when someone has long term sickness or a lump sum critical illness payment when a serious illness has been diagnosed is probably seen as a very valuable saviour to those millions who have that cover provided by their employers. Anyway, that argument about nurses pay gets trotted out all the time, every time a footballer signs a new contract, how many nurses can you get for that, a banker gets a bonus, how many nurses can you get for that....... The financial crisis started in 2008 on the back of Blair/Browns regimes, remember the note left in treasury laughing about all the money having gone. It was actually far worse than that as their spending splurge had largely been made on credit card. Add to that Brown's regulatory changes to banking, robbing pension schemes and egging on RBS's takeover for was it HBOS? on the health issues thanks for enquiring. All stable with a long term autoimmune condition and off to see a cardiothoracic surgeon on Monday when I should get an idea of when my aortic valve and part of my aorta will be replaced - should be in the next 3-6 months. It's all a bit gory but watch a video on YouTube of this, or any major surgery, and the number of highly paid medical professionals and the hugely costly multiple bits of kit required and we get a good idea of how much it costs to run the NHS in the modern era. All a bit different to when the NHS was set up when most things were fixed with penicillin or a band aid! The National debt has tripled since Osbourne has held the Treasury. That's more than a Labour Government ever, added together!! Wait until the Tories privatise it. To save money. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 14:07:27 GMT
Group Income Protection replacing an income when someone has long term sickness or a lump sum critical illness payment when a serious illness has been diagnosed is probably seen as a very valuable saviour to those millions who have that cover provided by their employers. Anyway, that argument about nurses pay gets trotted out all the time, every time a footballer signs a new contract, how many nurses can you get for that, a banker gets a bonus, how many nurses can you get for that....... The financial crisis started in 2008 on the back of Blair/Browns regimes, remember the note left in treasury laughing about all the money having gone. It was actually far worse than that as their spending splurge had largely been made on credit card. Add to that Brown's regulatory changes to banking, robbing pension schemes and egging on RBS's takeover for was it HBOS? on the health issues thanks for enquiring. All stable with a long term autoimmune condition and off to see a cardiothoracic surgeon on Monday when I should get an idea of when my aortic valve and part of my aorta will be replaced - should be in the next 3-6 months. It's all a bit gory but watch a video on YouTube of this, or any major surgery, and the number of highly paid medical professionals and the hugely costly multiple bits of kit required and we get a good idea of how much it costs to run the NHS in the modern era. All a bit different to when the NHS was set up when most things were fixed with penicillin or a band aid! The National debt has tripled since Osbourne has held the Treasury. That's more than a Labour Government ever, added together!! Wait until the Tories privatise it. To save money. There may not be a choice but some degree of privatisation, unless people are happy to agree large tax hikes? The NHS is just such an expensive operation to run. It would also help if those vile ambulance chasing lawyers didn't view the NHS a as a cash cow and encouraging anyone with a bad experience to sue the NHS! |
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Austerity
Mar 29, 2019 14:11:25 GMT
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Post by baggins on Mar 29, 2019 14:11:25 GMT
The National debt has tripled since Osbourne has held the Treasury. That's more than a Labour Government ever, added together!! Wait until the Tories privatise it. To save money. There may not be a choice but some degree of privatisation, unless people are happy to agree large tax hikes? The NHS is just such an expensive operation to run. It would also help if those vile ambulance chasing lawyers didn't view the NHS a as a cash cow and encouraging anyone with a bad experience to sue the NHS! Tax hikes? Again? What's the point? When we leave the EU we'll get £350 mil per week going straight into the NHS. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 14:33:14 GMT
There may not be a choice but some degree of privatisation, unless people are happy to agree large tax hikes? The NHS is just such an expensive operation to run. It would also help if those vile ambulance chasing lawyers didn't view the NHS a as a cash cow and encouraging anyone with a bad experience to sue the NHS! Tax hikes? Again? What's the point? When we leave the EU we'll get £350 mil per week going straight into the NHS. As the population gets bigger and bigger and the NHS gets more and more costly it has to be funded somehow. If it's not tax increases or partial privatisation then back to Mr Brown and ask if he can bring his money tree out of retirement! The point of the £350m comment from Pro Leave (not government) was money that would have gone to the EU could now be used domestically, such as the NHS. It was a silly stunt as all its done is allow remain to spin it to their advantage and use it against the pro leave lobby. Incidentally, hasn't a similar sum recently been committed by the government to the NHS? |
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Post by baggins on Mar 29, 2019 14:54:22 GMT
Tax hikes? Again? What's the point? When we leave the EU we'll get £350 mil per week going straight into the NHS. As the population gets bigger and bigger and the NHS gets more and more costly it has to be funded somehow. If it's not tax increases or partial privatisation then back to Mr Brown and ask if he can bring his money tree out of retirement! The point of the £350m comment from Pro Leave (not government) was money that would have gone to the EU could now be used domestically, such as the NHS. It was a silly stunt as all its done is allow remain to spin it to their advantage and use it against the pro leave lobby. Incidentally, hasn't a similar sum recently been committed by the government to the NHS? Well, I wish you well, and sincerely hope the next time you're in urgent need, when you're wheeled out of the ambulance, you're not asked to provide insurance details with a signature. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 14:59:07 GMT
As the population gets bigger and bigger and the NHS gets more and more costly it has to be funded somehow. If it's not tax increases or partial privatisation then back to Mr Brown and ask if he can bring his money tree out of retirement! The point of the £350m comment from Pro Leave (not government) was money that would have gone to the EU could now be used domestically, such as the NHS. It was a silly stunt as all its done is allow remain to spin it to their advantage and use it against the pro leave lobby. Incidentally, hasn't a similar sum recently been committed by the government to the NHS? Well, I wish you well, and sincerely hope the next time you're in urgent need, when you're wheeled out of the ambulance, you're not asked to provide insurance details with a signature. If and when elements get privatised emergency care would be bottom of the list. Plenty of areas of savings and more suitability for privatisation than emergency care. Anyway probably debated enough on this one - perhaps we can reconvene in 30 years and see how it all planned out !! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 15:01:46 GMT
Virgin Health claim to have helped 6 million NHS patients since a Labour government gave them their first contract.
But let's not let facts get in the way of an outdated myth.
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Post by baggins on Mar 29, 2019 15:32:06 GMT
Virgin Health claim to have helped 6 million NHS patients since a Labour government gave them their first contract. But let's not let facts get in the way of an outdated myth. 6 million, in 12 years. And you believe "claims"? We all you know you love a "claim". Where's the proof. |
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Austerity
Mar 29, 2019 15:47:24 GMT
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Mar 29, 2019 15:47:24 GMT
Well, I wish you well, and sincerely hope the next time you're in urgent need, when you're wheeled out of the ambulance, you're not asked to provide insurance details with a signature. If and when elements get privatised emergency care would be bottom of the list. Plenty of areas of savings and more suitability for privatisation than emergency care. Anyway probably debated enough on this one - perhaps we can reconvene in 30 years and see how it all planned out !! Can I just inform you that almost everything bar emergency services are ALREADY privatised. Your GP surgery is privatised. Your dental services are privatised. Your treatment centres are privatised. Your NHSD is privatised. And actually, many ambulance services sub contract to private companies too. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 17:31:49 GMT
Virgin Health claim to have helped 6 million NHS patients since a Labour government gave them their first contract. But let's not let facts get in the way of an outdated myth. 6 million, in 12 years. And you believe "claims"? We all you know you love a "claim". Where's the proof. Here you go www.virgin.com/company/virgin-care |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 19:16:53 GMT
May I respectfully suggest that this Daily Mail view of people who use food and clothes banks is wholly inaccurate. I've never bought or read The Mail. I've not visited a food bank but have seen a number of documentaries from BBC and Ch4 fearturing interviews with users and don't think my view is too far from the mark. Next Wednesday's benefit documentary featuring a family called the Kerrigans will be worth watching for an insight into today's benefit culture. With respect, I recently found myself out of work for a year after being laid off out of the blue at Christmas. Despite a previously exemplary career history I was treated like a leper by all and sundry, living on £2 a day at one point to clothe myself and provide a healthy diet whilst trying to fend off the onset of depression with each rejection letter. It's at times like that you experience first hand the disdain and contempt with which this country treats it's unemployed and it doesn't matter if you have never been in 'the system' before, the minute you are the machinery of government and it's citizens judge you the same as these caricatures on the TV. In fact I must obviously have been doing something wrong because there was no 42 inch TV for me, only a fight to survive. Every. Single. Damn. Day. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. You would have seen a different side to life if a TV company had come round and filmed a documentary about me. But they didn't, because seeing people genuinely struggling to survive is not a ratings winner compared with the stereotypical cast of 'scallywags' that these bull**** documentaries throw up with their 42 inch TVs etc. It's pure pantomime designed specifically to stir the righteous ire of the middle class and keep the country deeply divided- neither side with any empathy for the other. And judging by the way people (such as yourself) seem to be using these caricatures as your reference point when contemplating the unemployed it is succeeding in that job very very well. |
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