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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 12:15:52 GMT
It's the response which is BS. The government announced about six months an increase in NHS funding of 20 billion, which more than covers the 350m a week. It seems as though it was only Remainers who were taken in with that particular message on the bus. I also keep saying it, but the people behind the Leave campaign were pushed to one side the day after the referendum. The politicians took over, and well, you can see how that ended up! The Government announce lots of things regarding spending increases. What they fail to mention is they're the ones who cut it in the first place. The Tory Party has never cut NHS spending. No political party has. They just argue amongst themselves as to who will spend more. It's not a mature policy, just party bickering! The real question is not which party will spend more on the NHS, but who will spend it wisely ! The NHS needs reform, from where the money comes from, to who can supply the service, to how the money is spent. This constant harping on about who will spend the most is just wrong. |
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Austerity
Apr 1, 2019 12:37:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 12:37:32 GMT
It's the response which is BS. The government announced about six months an increase in NHS funding of 20 billion, which more than covers the 350m a week. It seems as though it was only Remainers who were taken in with that particular message on the bus. I also keep saying it, but the people behind the Leave campaign were pushed to one side the day after the referendum. The politicians took over, and well, you can see how that ended up! That's my point!! Its all bullshit!! I wasn't defending either side, I was just confirming the image was genuine. Except Nobby's point is pure fabrication. The government had to spend the £20billion (phased) to stop the NHS imploding after ten years of less than required funding. Naff all to with the cost of EU membership. |
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Austerity
Apr 1, 2019 12:38:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 12:38:55 GMT
The Government announce lots of things regarding spending increases. What they fail to mention is they're the ones who cut it in the first place. The Tory Party has never cut NHS spending. No political party has. They just argue amongst themselves as to who will spend more. It's not a mature policy, just party bickering! The real question is not which party will spend more on the NHS, but who will spend it wisely ! The NHS needs reform, from where the money comes from, to who can supply the service, to how the money is spent. This constant harping on about who will spend the most is just wrong. Agreed. But from a viable base line. Not one that prevents the delivery of the service. |
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Austerity
Apr 1, 2019 12:46:13 GMT
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Post by baggins on Apr 1, 2019 12:46:13 GMT
The Government announce lots of things regarding spending increases. What they fail to mention is they're the ones who cut it in the first place. The Tory Party has never cut NHS spending. No political party has. They just argue amongst themselves as to who will spend more. It's not a mature policy, just party bickering! The real question is not which party will spend more on the NHS, but who will spend it wisely ! The NHS needs reform, from where the money comes from, to who can supply the service, to how the money is spent. This constant harping on about who will spend the most is just wrong. The Tory Government hasn't cut NHS spending? Are you kidding me? I can't believe you've just said that. |
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Austerity
Apr 1, 2019 13:04:00 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 1, 2019 13:04:00 GMT
Just for clarity, I watched Politics Live today and they had video footage of the bus with Boris and Steve Baker, it said "We send the EU £350m a week, let's fund our NHS instead".
With regards to the extra money announced in June 2018, it is BY 2023, which is only the annusl rises the NHS gets each year anyway.
Also, Boris was still in cabinet at the time, they were keen for a good news Brexit dividend story and to lose the bus hangover by spinning this announcement.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 13:04:03 GMT
The Tory Party has never cut NHS spending. No political party has. They just argue amongst themselves as to who will spend more. It's not a mature policy, just party bickering! The real question is not which party will spend more on the NHS, but who will spend it wisely ! The NHS needs reform, from where the money comes from, to who can supply the service, to how the money is spent. This constant harping on about who will spend the most is just wrong. The Tory Government hasn't cut NHS spending? Are you kidding me? I can't believe you've just said that. Go on then. Just show me some proof that the Tory Party has cut NHS funding at any point. I'll save you some time, you won't find it because it has never happened. |
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Austerity
Apr 1, 2019 13:06:24 GMT
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 1, 2019 13:06:24 GMT
The Government announce lots of things regarding spending increases. What they fail to mention is they're the ones who cut it in the first place. The Tory Party has never cut NHS spending. No political party has. They just argue amongst themselves as to who will spend more. It's not a mature policy, just party bickering! The real question is not which party will spend more on the NHS, but who will spend it wisely ! The NHS needs reform, from where the money comes from, to who can supply the service, to how the money is spent. This constant harping on about who will spend the most is just wrong. That's a bit like saving a £5 note for 50 years and being surprised in 2060 that you cant buy a coffee with it. Demand increases and spend remains static or at least not increased in line with demand proportionally. The honorable gentlemen will understand the point I'm sure and it not being at all obscure. |
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Austerity
Apr 1, 2019 13:11:47 GMT
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Post by baggins on Apr 1, 2019 13:11:47 GMT
The Tory Government hasn't cut NHS spending? Are you kidding me? I can't believe you've just said that. Go on then. Just show me some proof that the Tory Party has cut NHS funding at any point. I'll save you some time, you won't find it because it has never happened. Where have 120,000 nurses gone? Where's my local clinic gone? Where's 20,000 Doctors gone? Why am I now paying for non life threatening symptoms? Why am I now waiting 4 weeks for a Doctors appointment? Why has my local Hospital had to sell off land to make ends meet? Tory Government not making cut backs? Try living here. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 13:16:18 GMT
The Tory Party has never cut NHS spending. No political party has. They just argue amongst themselves as to who will spend more. It's not a mature policy, just party bickering! The real question is not which party will spend more on the NHS, but who will spend it wisely ! The NHS needs reform, from where the money comes from, to who can supply the service, to how the money is spent. This constant harping on about who will spend the most is just wrong. That's a bit like saving a £5 note for 50 years and being surprised in 2060 that you cant buy a coffee with it. Demand increases and spend remains static or at least not increased in line with demand proportionally. The honorable gentlemen will understand the point I'm sure and it not being at all obscure. No, I am being realistic. Was NHS funding ever satisfactory under Labour? and before you answer don't forget that the Tories actually increased NHS funding more than Labour did. The NHS is a bottom-less pit. No matter how much money you pour into it, it will demand more. That is why I am saying the NHS needs a total reform, but as long as the MSM, the politicians and many of the general public treat it as some form of religion, that'll never happen and the NHS will always stumble along. and sorry if I offend some, but the NHS is not the 'best in the world'. It's a creaking clapped out archaic institution, in serious need of reform, especially regards to funding. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 13:19:35 GMT
Go on then. Just show me some proof that the Tory Party has cut NHS funding at any point. I'll save you some time, you won't find it because it has never happened. Where have 120,000 nurses gone? Where's my local clinic gone? Where's 20,000 Doctors gone? Why am I now paying for non life threatening symptoms? Why am I now waiting 4 weeks for a Doctors appointment? Why has my local Hospital had to sell off land to make ends meet? Tory Government not making cut backs? Try living here. No Bags, the government have not made any cut backs. The NHS receives more funding than it has ever done. Maybe you should be asking those questions of your local Health authorities. Where is the money going? I repeat, it's not how much you spend, it's how you spend it. |
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Post by baggins on Apr 1, 2019 13:39:13 GMT
Where have 120,000 nurses gone? Where's my local clinic gone? Where's 20,000 Doctors gone? Why am I now paying for non life threatening symptoms? Why am I now waiting 4 weeks for a Doctors appointment? Why has my local Hospital had to sell off land to make ends meet? Tory Government not making cut backs? Try living here. No Bags, the government have not made any cut backs. The NHS receives more funding than it has ever done. Maybe you should be asking those questions of your local Health authorities. Where is the money going? I repeat, it's not how much you spend, it's how you spend it. Just out of idle curiosity, as a percentage, how much of what you earn in Germany do you contribute to the UK? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 13:57:37 GMT
No Bags, the government have not made any cut backs. The NHS receives more funding than it has ever done. Maybe you should be asking those questions of your local Health authorities. Where is the money going? I repeat, it's not how much you spend, it's how you spend it. Just out of idle curiosity, as a percentage, how much of what you earn in Germany do you contribute to the UK? That information is between me and the tax people I'm afraid. What I can say is that you get what you pay for. Here, with a Gold Standard Health Service, I pay about 600 quid a month. Half by me and half by my employer. That is with the Government Health Insurance. My son is also covered by that. My wife has a Private Health Insurance and that costs about 700 quid a month, with a 1,000 quid yearly excess to be paid before she can claim on the insurance. Basic tax rates here are 50% for single people and about 40% if you're married. There are obviously different small adjustable tax scales etc, but that is what it basically is. Off the top of my head the rate for health insurance is about 15% of your wage, with a top level capped at approx. 4500 quid a month wage. Dental work is extra, so are Opticians. Prescriptions we pay 5 euro for every item, so I need six packs of tablets every two months, so that's 30 euro every two months for that. If I have to spend time in hospital, I also get charged 10 euro per night extra. It's friggin expensive. How much are you prepared to pay in the UK? |
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Post by baggins on Apr 1, 2019 14:03:56 GMT
Just out of idle curiosity, as a percentage, how much of what you earn in Germany do you contribute to the UK? That information is between me and the tax people I'm afraid. What I can say is that you get what you pay for. Here, with a Gold Standard Health Service, I pay about 600 quid a month. Half by me and half by my employer. That is with the Government Health Insurance. My son is also covered by that. My wife has a Private Health Insurance and that costs about 700 quid a month, with a 1,000 quid yearly excess to be paid before she can claim on the insurance. Basic tax rates here are 50% for single people and about 40% if you're married. There are obviously different small adjustable tax scales etc, but that is what it basically is. Off the top of my head the rate for health insurance is about 15% of your wage, with a top level capped at approx. 4500 quid a month wage. Dental work is extra, so are Opticians. Prescriptions we pay 5 euro for every item, so I need six packs of tablets every two months, so that's 30 euro every two months for that. If I have to spend time in hospital, I also get charged 10 euro per night extra. It's friggin expensive. How much are you prepared to pay in the UK? Dress it up all you want, you contribute nothing. |
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Austerity
Apr 1, 2019 14:03:56 GMT
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 1, 2019 14:03:56 GMT
That's a bit like saving a £5 note for 50 years and being surprised in 2060 that you cant buy a coffee with it. Demand increases and spend remains static or at least not increased in line with demand proportionally. The honorable gentlemen will understand the point I'm sure and it not being at all obscure. No, I am being realistic. Was NHS funding ever satisfactory under Labour? and before you answer don't forget that the Tories actually increased NHS funding more than Labour did. The NHS is a bottom-less pit. No matter how much money you pour into it, it will demand more. That is why I am saying the NHS needs a total reform, but as long as the MSM, the politicians and many of the general public treat it as some form of religion, that'll never happen and the NHS will always stumble along. and sorry if I offend some, but the NHS is not the 'best in the world'. It's a creaking clapped out archaic institution, in serious need of reform, especially regards to funding. You know very well I agree with you on this. It's also sh**e in comparison to other countries. I'm just trying to be open about what the funding looks like over time and what constitutes a material increase in funding and what does not. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 14:06:15 GMT
That information is between me and the tax people I'm afraid. What I can say is that you get what you pay for. Here, with a Gold Standard Health Service, I pay about 600 quid a month. Half by me and half by my employer. That is with the Government Health Insurance. My son is also covered by that. My wife has a Private Health Insurance and that costs about 700 quid a month, with a 1,000 quid yearly excess to be paid before she can claim on the insurance. Basic tax rates here are 50% for single people and about 40% if you're married. There are obviously different small adjustable tax scales etc, but that is what it basically is. Off the top of my head the rate for health insurance is about 15% of your wage, with a top level capped at approx. 4500 quid a month wage. Dental work is extra, so are Opticians. Prescriptions we pay 5 euro for every item, so I need six packs of tablets every two months, so that's 30 euro every two months for that. If I have to spend time in hospital, I also get charged 10 euro per night extra. It's friggin expensive. How much are you prepared to pay in the UK? Dress it up all you want, you contribute nothing. Not dressing anything....and I do ! |
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Austerity
Apr 1, 2019 14:06:48 GMT
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 1, 2019 14:06:48 GMT
Actually come to think of it I believe the kings fund paper I shared had a spend per head comparison vs other countries. I'll look at that later.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 14:08:11 GMT
No, I am being realistic. Was NHS funding ever satisfactory under Labour? and before you answer don't forget that the Tories actually increased NHS funding more than Labour did. The NHS is a bottom-less pit. No matter how much money you pour into it, it will demand more. That is why I am saying the NHS needs a total reform, but as long as the MSM, the politicians and many of the general public treat it as some form of religion, that'll never happen and the NHS will always stumble along. and sorry if I offend some, but the NHS is not the 'best in the world'. It's a creaking clapped out archaic institution, in serious need of reform, especially regards to funding. You know very well I agree with you on this. It's also sh**e in comparison to other countries. I'm just trying to be open about what the funding looks like over time and what constitutes a material increase in funding and what does not. A National debate needs to be had over the NHS, especially regarding funding. Until that happens, it will always be 'in crisis' ! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 14:09:33 GMT
Actually come to think of it I believe the kings fund paper I shared had a spend per head comparison vs other countries. I'll look at that later. That's difficult to quantify though. For me, my employer pays half. How do you reflect that in terms of 'spending per head'? |
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Austerity
Apr 1, 2019 14:26:14 GMT
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 1, 2019 14:26:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 14:33:09 GMT
As I said though, it is difficult to compare as Health Spending in countries like Germany comes from the wages of the people. In the UK it's from central government funds. As always, you get what you pay for. |
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