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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 23, 2019 17:04:44 GMT
I'm just saying that's how I read it. Language is important as you don't want to have something for the racists to latch onto. Like you said before the NF thought they would be welcome. I would describe young immigrants as the next generation. Some of my friends are 2nd/3rd generation immigrants and their kids will be the next generation. Just like someone arriving today, thier kids would be the next generation Also I have made it clear why people like the NF feel they will be welcomed by us. People on the left of politics keep telling them they will be. Ah, of course. Its the Lefties fault all your true stories are about muslims. Thanks for clearing that up. |
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Post by widnesgas71 on Jul 23, 2019 17:08:23 GMT
Also I have made it clear why people like the NF feel they will be welcomed by us. People on the left of politics keep telling them they will be. Ah, of course. Its the Lefties fault all your true stories are about muslims. Thanks for clearing that up. What are you talking about? Have a look at "Our Stories" instead of just assuming. And yes if people on the far right keep hearing about a far right movement full of nazis why wouldn't they think they were welcome? Sutr and their like have been calling us nazis since day one. Even Hope Not Hate have seen sense to make it clear we are not a fascist movement. |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 23, 2019 17:46:22 GMT
Ah, of course. Its the Lefties fault all your true stories are about muslims. Thanks for clearing that up. What are you talking about? Have a look at "Our Stories" instead of just assuming. And yes if people on the far right keep hearing about a far right movement full of nazis why wouldn't they think they were welcome? Sutr and their like have been calling us nazis since day one. Even Hope Not Hate have seen sense to make it clear we are not a fascist movement. I had a really good look at your website and also read your manifesto you posted here and it looks like a sanitized far right propaganda organisation. If that's not your intention then please accept my apologies and feel free to take my feedback to the editor of your site. As I have already said, even a cursory browse of that website would lead a layman such as myself to understand why you are being linked to far right groups. |
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Post by baggins on Jul 23, 2019 17:52:45 GMT
This is getting out of hand. I understand General Chat should be exactly that, but this can't be what it's about surely?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 18:40:34 GMT
This is getting out of hand. I understand General Chat should be exactly that, but this can't be what it's about surely? Let it flow Baggins. Extremes always expose themselves, in the end. |
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Post by aghast on Jul 23, 2019 21:42:02 GMT
Another extreme right wing group using slightly moderated language to achieve their hateful aims.
They're learning. Hopefully no one will be taken in by it.
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Post by widnesgas71 on Jul 23, 2019 22:13:46 GMT
Another extreme right wing group using slightly moderated language to achieve their hateful aims. They're learning. Hopefully no one will be taken in by it. Would you mind explaining what makes us extreme right...... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 22:29:11 GMT
Another extreme right wing group using slightly moderated language to achieve their hateful aims. They're learning. Hopefully no one will be taken in by it. Would you mind explaining what makes us extreme right...... Define the extremism you seek to combat and how |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 24, 2019 4:38:34 GMT
Another extreme right wing group using slightly moderated language to achieve their hateful aims. They're learning. Hopefully no one will be taken in by it. That was certainly how it appeared to me. |
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Post by tommym9 on Jul 24, 2019 7:48:40 GMT
I'm just saying that's how I read it. Language is important as you don't want to have something for the racists to latch onto. Like you said before the NF thought they would be welcome. I would describe young immigrants as the next generation. Some of my friends are 2nd/3rd generation immigrants and their kids will be the next generation. Just like someone arriving today, thier kids would be the next generation All youth would be described as the next generation immigrants included. I don't see why we need to differentiate. Were on the same page on that one. What I'm saying is that it could be read a different way by people who are racists that you mean immigrants but don't want to say outright. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 7:51:53 GMT
All youth would be described as the next generation immigrants included. I don't see why we need to differentiate. Were on the same page on that one. What I'm saying is that it could be read a different way by people who are racists that you mean immigrants but don't want to say outright. Precisely. |
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Post by geddongas on Jul 24, 2019 7:57:15 GMT
I'll just go ahead and point to the 'its the lefties making them believe it' comment.
Most people on the left leaning side of politics would not be pushing any racist or far right individual to spread their message on any forum or website.
To be on the left of politics economically is very different than to be left socially, and I think the two get very badly mixed up.
Left leaning social opinions are usually just generally being a nice person. Letting people be who they want and get on with what they do, but standing up to injustices such as Racism, Homophobia, Transphobia and Sexism.
To blame the left for the DFLAs issues is feeding that right wing fire.
To put it in context I was in London yesterday and saw a guy with a flag saying 'Remoaners are traitors'. I thought 'thats a bit strong'.
I spoke to him and he was very reasonable in his arguments about why he wanted to leave, as he is entitled to his opinion I respected that, but to go out of his way to then attack the opposing side on his flag MAKES HIM LOOK like a right wing thug, and his flag seemed to attract the attention of those sorts of people driving past.
Language is paramount, way more important than what you actually believe is how that's put across to other people.
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Post by inee on Jul 24, 2019 8:36:48 GMT
What are you talking about? Have a look at "Our Stories" instead of just assuming. And yes if people on the far right keep hearing about a far right movement full of nazis why wouldn't they think they were welcome? Sutr and their like have been calling us nazis since day one. Even Hope Not Hate have seen sense to make it clear we are not a fascist movement. I had a really good look at your website and also read your manifesto you posted here and it looks like a sanitized far right propaganda organisation. If that's not your intention then please accept my apologies and feel free to take my feedback to the editor of your site. As I have already said, even a cursory browse of that website would lead a layman such as myself to understand why you are being linked to far right groups. Hugo therein lies the problem(not a personal attack on you) ,most younger people will have been taught and conditioned to skim read and will form an opinion on maybe one or two articles , it's high time people were educated to look at something overall and form a balanced opinion rather than scream right wing when someone comments on certain religions etc. Did you see the article asking for justice for the Windrush generation ,it's something that has been bought up here and conveniently forgotten whereas discussions about a religion has been constantly continue, i guess what i'm trying to say is this many many on here defend islam blindly with an unconditional love that just goes to show how the press and authorities has made not questioning and blindly believing so normal, however when a group of our own who came here after the war to help rebuild this country with pride, where treated like shi-te from the start ,bollucks we all went to school with their kids(60's on) and many will go to school with their direct descendants but collectively seem to have turned our backs on them and then have the gall to call or insinuate that others are racist.(even though those so called racists are the ones highlighting the wrong the Windrush generation suffered), Think about it. |
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Post by inee on Jul 24, 2019 8:44:49 GMT
This is our Mission Statement. Mission statement The Democratic Football Lads Alliance (DFLA) was formed following the 2017 terrorist attacks in London and Manchester, as a working class voice against social, economic and political injustice. The DFLA objective is plain and simple – to combat terrorism and extremism. The prevention of extremism and protection of the public in this country is not good enough. Government refusal and failure to tackle the roots of extremism which results in terrorist attacks is not good enough. Leaders and authorities failure to protect our Freedom of Expression and right to free speech is not good enough. A new generation walking among us with no regard for British Law or Values or Traditions while implementing their own anarchic standards is not good enough. The DFLA shuns the failed extremist politics particularly far-left and far-right groups with hidden agendas faking working class interests. We are anti- racist and anti-violence with no intention of seeking a political position but every intention of seeking justice based on what is right and wrong. We are not seeking to alienate any demographic but are seeking to bring to justice anyone who believes they are above the laws of this land and the values and traditions of our Country. The DFLA opposes all forms of bigotry and sectarianism while embracing all sections of our society seeking to lobby, peacefully protest and hold to account Central & Local Government and all authority failing to protect and serve us as a Nation. Justice must be served on those living among us who create terror with extreme values and behaviour – whatever their motive. The protection of our children's future is paramount. We will not tolerate the escalating modern scourges of grooming, gang rape and street crime – both from offenders and those in authority who hide or deny their existence. The DFLA believes in Freedom of Expression and intends to defend our right to free speech and responsibly use our freedom to campaign and debate our core beliefs and values within this mission statement. Members and allies are encouraged to positively contribute and debate to the growth and progression of our Alliance with respect to the course set out in this mission statement. This is the DFLA. I understand you're going to attract some racists and nutters, but this kind of talk is proper dog whistle stuff. Unless I'm reading this completely wrong of course. Thats because people have already decided it's a right wing group without looking for themselves, when i read what you highlighted my first thoughts were not muslims, but the fekless oiks walking around openly peddling drugs ,knifing each other etc, you know dare i say it those british kids , the difference being i read that sentence with an open mind (just like the nhs and 350 million posters , (the majority read it as a promise which was wrong) |
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Post by inee on Jul 24, 2019 8:47:20 GMT
Another extreme right wing group using slightly moderated language to achieve their hateful aims. They're learning. Hopefully no one will be taken in by it. What hatefull aims are those as usual there doesn't seem to be any |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 24, 2019 8:51:44 GMT
I had a really good look at your website and also read your manifesto you posted here and it looks like a sanitized far right propaganda organisation. If that's not your intention then please accept my apologies and feel free to take my feedback to the editor of your site. As I have already said, even a cursory browse of that website would lead a layman such as myself to understand why you are being linked to far right groups. Hugo therein lies the problem(not a personal attack on you) ,most younger people will have been taught and conditioned to skim read and will form an opinion on maybe one or two articles , it's high time people were educated to look at something overall and form a balanced opinion rather than scream right wing when someone comments on certain religions etc. Did you see the article asking for justice for the Windrush generation ,it's something that has been bought up here and conveniently forgotten whereas discussions about a religion has been constantly continue, i guess what i'm trying to say is this many many on here defend islam blindly with an unconditional love that just goes to show how the press and authorities has made not questioning and blindly believing so normal, however when a group of our own who came here after the war to help rebuild this country with pride, where treated like shi-te from the start ,bollucks we all went to school with their kids(60's on) and many will go to school with their direct descendants but collectively seem to have turned our backs on them and then have the gall to call or insinuate that others are racist.(even though those so called racists are the ones highlighting the wrong the Windrush generation suffered), Think about it. But that was my point Inee. Most people WILL skim read and frankly doing so makes it appear like another extreme right wing group. By their own admission they have attracted those sorts of people so surely there is a lesson in there somewhere no? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 8:54:12 GMT
I understand you're going to attract some racists and nutters, but this kind of talk is proper dog whistle stuff. Unless I'm reading this completely wrong of course. Thats because people have already decided it's a right wing group without looking for themselves, when i read what you highlighted my first thoughts were not muslims, but the fekless oiks walking around openly peddling drugs ,knifing each other etc, you know dare i say it those british kids , the difference being i read that sentence with an open mind (just like the nhs and 350 million posters , (the majority read it as a promise which was wrong) Come on mate, you really think this applies to UK born and (perhaps barely) educated kids? "A new generation walking among us with no regard for British Law or Values or Traditions while implementing their own anarchic standards is not good enough." As most of that, if true, starts at home, then it follows that their is a whole generation of parents with the same thought process. I would also be interested in this groups definition of British Values and Traditions. Now that would be illuminating. |
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Post by inee on Jul 24, 2019 9:09:30 GMT
Hugo therein lies the problem(not a personal attack on you) ,most younger people will have been taught and conditioned to skim read and will form an opinion on maybe one or two articles , it's high time people were educated to look at something overall and form a balanced opinion rather than scream right wing when someone comments on certain religions etc. Did you see the article asking for justice for the Windrush generation ,it's something that has been bought up here and conveniently forgotten whereas discussions about a religion has been constantly continue, i guess what i'm trying to say is this many many on here defend islam blindly with an unconditional love that just goes to show how the press and authorities has made not questioning and blindly believing so normal, however when a group of our own who came here after the war to help rebuild this country with pride, where treated like shi-te from the start ,bollucks we all went to school with their kids(60's on) and many will go to school with their direct descendants but collectively seem to have turned our backs on them and then have the gall to call or insinuate that others are racist.(even though those so called racists are the ones highlighting the wrong the Windrush generation suffered), Think about it. But that was my point Inee. Most people WILL skim read and frankly doing so makes it appear like another extreme right wing group. By their own admission they have attracted those sorts of people so surely there is a lesson in there somewhere no? The lesson is that successive generations need to rid themselves of the conditioning to believe all they see on tv news. Every group whether left or right or centre, will always attract those from opposite sides of the circle, but for some reason everyone jumps on the bandwagon and deems everything that doesn't conform to their (peers ,teachers ,tv ) views is suddenly far right. In this thread it yet again shows how many cant separate race from religion, which is exactly what the law makers wanted(think about it for a bit). I will leave you with this though(not you hugo tis a general comment) brfc has always had right and left wing supporters, feck some are in the centre even , so are we identifying ourselves as far right or far left based on a few in the crowd. What makes me laugh hard is people will read the sentence and quite rightly say what the feck ,bollocks etc ,how can you make that assumption, well the vast majority did and exactly the same thing daily in describing tings they dont like as right wing |
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Post by inee on Jul 24, 2019 9:52:57 GMT
Thats because people have already decided it's a right wing group without looking for themselves, when i read what you highlighted my first thoughts were not muslims, but the fekless oiks walking around openly peddling drugs ,knifing each other etc, you know dare i say it those british kids , the difference being i read that sentence with an open mind (just like the nhs and 350 million posters , (the majority read it as a promise which was wrong) Come on mate, you really think this applies to UK born and (perhaps barely) educated kids? "A new generation walking among us with no regard for British Law or Values or Traditions while implementing their own anarchic standards is not good enough." As most of that, if true, starts at home, then it follows that their is a whole generation of parents with the same thought process. I would also be interested in this groups definition of British Values and Traditions. Now that would be illuminating. Yes i do maybe i read stuff differantely ')  ,if you've spent more than a few minutes on their site you will see that race isn't mentioned ,religion is along with peodophillia ,a far right persons jailing, and other issues. As for the new generation you can't always single out the parents and blame them entirely ,many kids have been bought up in good homes but turn out as wrong uns ,likewise many have been bought up rough as a badgers arse and never do any wrong, my belief is it's more societies fault ,20/30 or more years ago schools stopped being competitive and actively told the kids it was wrong. Then the no blame culture appeared further reinforcing in those kids and young workers that there would be no real punishment if they deliberately did wrong, in reality it made kids think they were more invincible than they are/were ,which lead into a state of feck it i will do as i please with no consequences to their actions. the above is a lot to digest but gets deeper as unfortunately kids need an instant fix these days.(i do blame the parents for this bit) , when i was young if parents wanted a holiday, new anything we had to wait till the money was saved up, dad used to have a coin op rented tv and coin op electricity meter , he saw these as money boxes as when they were emptied he always had a lot of cash back it taught us and others that if you put stuff aside after a wait you can buy(not many took out bank loans back then). However these days a lot of people just go to the pawn shop or loan company, credit cards etc, and get their instant gratification, the downside is the kids only see stuff magically appear a day or so later ,these kids then join or make up a gang and sell drugs, mug people to get cash to buy their good instantly( the funny part of this is these idiots act all hard but as soon as one gets a slap the cry to the old bill, knowing the police will be on their side)l. I can't tell you what their take on british values or traditions are as i have nothing to do with the group, I may be wrong but i feel tat maybe they are getting our values ad traditions mixed up with our way of life(my view only no one else's). , |
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Post by tommym9 on Jul 24, 2019 10:21:29 GMT
For reference here is what Hope not Hate says about the DFLA in their annual report: www.hopenothate.org.uk/2019/02/17/state-hate-2019/The DFLA is a far right movement but it is certainly not a fascist group and to say so is totally inaccurate. In London at least, most of the DFLA hardcore are drawn from hooligan gangs that have many black lads amongst them and have never shown overt racism or links with racist or fascist groups. While there might be the odd fascist in the DFLA, the vast majority are football hooligans who would normally balk at being considered fascist. Yes, they will be hostile to immigration, oppose being in the EU and view all Muslims with suspicion, if not outright hostility, but in truth their views are probably not dissimilar to many other white working class men in the 40s and 50s. Most of the hatred of the DFLA is now directed at the ‘Left’ and the political establishment as a whole. One gang who do buck the trend is the Chelsea Headhunders, who generally operate independently from the DFLA even though there is contact between the two groups. The Headhunters is more associated with the far right than any other football gang over the last 40 years and so once again they are coming out to fight their political opponents. Over 200 came out on the Free Speech demo, which was quite remarkable as Chelsea was playing Liverpool at home that day, and it was the Headhunters who attacked RMT Assistant General Secretary Steve Hedley during one of the Free Tommy demos. Outside London, DFLA units tend to be more violent and more right openly right wing. This is particularly the case in West Yorkshire, where the DFLA have been involved in fighting with the police, and the North East, where there is a strong cross-over with the English Defence League and the North East Infidels. |
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,if you've spent more than a few minutes on their site you will see that race isn't mentioned ,religion is along with peodophillia ,a far right persons jailing, and other issues.