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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 13:04:31 GMT
It's a cart and horse analogy isn't it. By announcing the imminent ban manufacturers were forced to find a technical solution. You can bet your bottom $ if the Swedes and the American had said in 1978 we are going to ban CFC use in 2000 nothing would have happened until the late 90s. The thing is though, this is down to us, the end user / consumer in reality. Haven't various governments already announced that things like petrol driven cars will not be produced at some point? Isn't it something like 2030 in the UK? I'm not sure of the exact date. Technical solutions are being sought to replace the internal combustion engine, although in my opinion electric is not the way to go. 2035 I believe. I am not convinced on electric cars either. But what Government should be doing in investing in transport infrastructure now, to make public transport more viable. HS2 is the flagship but that is nearly two decades away from completion. How about reopening those branch lines? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 13:19:34 GMT
Haven't various governments already announced that things like petrol driven cars will not be produced at some point? Isn't it something like 2030 in the UK? I'm not sure of the exact date. Technical solutions are being sought to replace the internal combustion engine, although in my opinion electric is not the way to go. 2035 I believe. I am not convinced on electric cars either. But what Government should be doing in investing in transport infrastructure now, to make public transport more viable. HS2 is the flagship but that is nearly two decades away from completion. How about reopening those branch lines? You only have to look at the failure where Bristol and South Glos Councils could not reach an agreement with the first light railway line. Bristol wanted to terminate the line at the M4/M5 Junction whereas South Glos wanted it to continue to the Mall Shopping Centre. Bristol would never agree to that as the Mall is the main competitor to Broadmead (or whatever it's called nowadays). A small minded and petty decision. |
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Post by turdburger on Mar 6, 2020 13:38:26 GMT
No, she has been seen countless times using single use plastic not re using. And snowflake, bleeding auto correct. And that really winds you up does it? Do you think she may have recycled it or used it to set fire to a forest? Plastic would be a poor choice to start a fire in a forest. At least use a decent example you wet wipe |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Mar 6, 2020 13:39:08 GMT
And that really winds you up does it? Do you think she may have recycled it or used it to set fire to a forest? Plastic would be a poor choice to start a fire in a forest. At least use a decent example you wet wipe Whoosh. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 13:45:31 GMT
The discussion is already happening isn't it? The drive to achieve will be based on technological breakthrough's I would have thought. For example, are electric cars really less polluting than petrol/diesel cars? Is there a better technology out there than electric? Should it be standard for all new-built homes to have triple glazing? There are lots of questions, and improvements in the way we live can be made at relatively low cost. Remember the days when the hole in the Ozone Layer was discovered over Antarctica? We were all going to burn up apparently. That hole has now near enough completely closed up. That reminds me of the missus. WD40 will work as a substitute for CFC gas ! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 14:02:38 GMT
Well thats easy... How are dumbasses like me and you meant to know any differece between 0%...the 50% and, 100% of what they present to us as truth..? Its pumbed throught main stream media as complete fact so therefore must be 100% correct? I guess... But I am the dumbass tho here. If say 50% of what they say is fact, not whats on just on TV/in the Newspaper/or on Facebook, but 100% agreed fact then of course major action is needed to reverse the problem. I dont know the answer myself, but its my right to question any clear un truths given to me by these loons based upon my humble knowledge on the subject. I think you have a responsibility to educate yourself. You have said several times you dont know anything about it, yet you use your humble knowledge to judge and deride others. Yoo also say that 50% of what some say about climate change is nonsense but when asked about the 50% they are right about you have no answer. Do some research, check your sources and look at a wide variety of sources, not just wherever you get your normal news from. Either that or carry on your ill informed ranting on an internet forum. Whatever floats your boat. Where do we go to educate ourselves on this? Like everyone else I can see things have changed environmentally - plastics and the effects on ecosystems is clear and obvious and something we can easily do something about by changing our behaviours. Climate change is a tougher one, the weather has been weird in recent years but is this all man made, a normal event that has happened many times over thousands of unmeasured years or a combination of both? I remember seeing Michael Fish talking of a new ice age in the early seventies due to what was a recent trend in weather. There are more scientists talking up global warming/climate change than there are contesting it. Is this a genuine scientific reflection of things or is there more funding provided for scientists on “the believer side”? The media also talks up every bit of bad news but very little gets aired when any contrary evidence gets produced. Perhaps this is why there is some scepticism on this issue or a feeling that the issue is being over egged? Do we believe every bit of scientific news that is reported? Over the course of 12 months you would struggle to find a food or drink that hasn’t at some point be deemed a killer!!! In my view there has been a change in climate in recent years but I really don’t understand to what degree this is man made and what is a natural occurrence. Whatever it is there is certainly no harm in searching for more sustainable, less polluting sources of energy. I do object to the bullying and preaching of eco warriors. Many of the same faces will jump on any bandwagon whether that is anti Tory, anti globalist, anti trump, brexit remainers, anti nuclear, the list goes on. I don’t really care much for Greta or the cult following she has attracted but I do feel sorry for her in that I think she is being abused by others pulling the strings behind her and what affect this may be having on her own health and well-being. I’m sure at some stage it will come out that there is some agent, family member or something making themselves very wealthy on the back of the cause. I’ll try not to start on the hypocritical likes of Emma Thompson and Prince Harry as I can already feel my blood pressure rising!!! |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 6, 2020 14:56:39 GMT
I think you have a responsibility to educate yourself. You have said several times you dont know anything about it, yet you use your humble knowledge to judge and deride others. Yoo also say that 50% of what some say about climate change is nonsense but when asked about the 50% they are right about you have no answer. Do some research, check your sources and look at a wide variety of sources, not just wherever you get your normal news from. Either that or carry on your ill informed ranting on an internet forum. Whatever floats your boat. Ive never said that I dont know anything about it so dont make stuff up.I said that I was no expert on it.There is a difference. Can you say that you know more than anyone else on here including myself on this subject, or any other topic for that matter without knowing me on a personal level? As I cant say that about you. Im willing to bet however that you and I know as much as 99% of others on here do tho. Im also sure that you and I know as much as alot of the extinction rebellion protesters also.Not the experts in difference science fields, but rather the loons that go around smashing up things and telling the world what to do. I'm not making anything up. You called yourself a dumbass, not me. You said you have limited knowledge but also you think 50% of the stuff about climate change is made up. When asked you were unable to expand on that claim. Its is entirely possible that you and I both know next to nothing on the subject compared to the experts but only one of us was making a claim. I have made no claims whatsoever, I simply pointed out that you cant say on one hand that you know nothing, then in the next breath claim that 50% of stuff is made up. It's fair to say that you and I both agree that nothing will be resolved by loons. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 6, 2020 20:36:48 GMT
I think you have a responsibility to educate yourself. You have said several times you dont know anything about it, yet you use your humble knowledge to judge and deride others. Yoo also say that 50% of what some say about climate change is nonsense but when asked about the 50% they are right about you have no answer. Do some research, check your sources and look at a wide variety of sources, not just wherever you get your normal news from. Either that or carry on your ill informed ranting on an internet forum. Whatever floats your boat. Where do we go to educate ourselves on this? Like everyone else I can see things have changed environmentally - plastics and the effects on ecosystems is clear and obvious and something we can easily do something about by changing our behaviours. Climate change is a tougher one, the weather has been weird in recent years but is this all man made, a normal event that has happened many times over thousands of unmeasured years or a combination of both? I remember seeing Michael Fish talking of a new ice age in the early seventies due to what was a recent trend in weather. There are more scientists talking up global warming/climate change than there are contesting it. Is this a genuine scientific reflection of things or is there more funding provided for scientists on “the believer side”? The media also talks up every bit of bad news but very little gets aired when any contrary evidence gets produced. Perhaps this is why there is some scepticism on this issue or a feeling that the issue is being over egged? Do we believe every bit of scientific news that is reported? Over the course of 12 months you would struggle to find a food or drink that hasn’t at some point be deemed a killer!!! In my view there has been a change in climate in recent years but I really don’t understand to what degree this is man made and what is a natural occurrence. Whatever it is there is certainly no harm in searching for more sustainable, less polluting sources of energy. I do object to the bullying and preaching of eco warriors. Many of the same faces will jump on any bandwagon whether that is anti Tory, anti globalist, anti trump, brexit remainers, anti nuclear, the list goes on. I don’t really care much for Greta or the cult following she has attracted but I do feel sorry for her in that I think she is being abused by others pulling the strings behind her and what affect this may be having on her own health and well-being. I’m sure at some stage it will come out that there is some agent, family member or something making themselves very wealthy on the back of the cause. I’ll try not to start on the hypocritical likes of Emma Thompson and Prince Harry as I can already feel my blood pressure rising!!! Many of the points you raised can be addressed here. skepticalscience.com/argument.phpI don't expect you to have an epiphany but please keep an open mind. |
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Post by Icegas on Mar 7, 2020 11:01:15 GMT
Ive never said that I dont know anything about it so dont make stuff up.I said that I was no expert on it.There is a difference. Can you say that you know more than anyone else on here including myself on this subject, or any other topic for that matter without knowing me on a personal level? As I cant say that about you. Im willing to bet however that you and I know as much as 99% of others on here do tho. Im also sure that you and I know as much as alot of the extinction rebellion protesters also.Not the experts in difference science fields, but rather the loons that go around smashing up things and telling the world what to do. I'm not making anything up. You called yourself a dumbass, not me. You said you have limited knowledge but also you think 50% of the stuff about climate change is made up. When asked you were unable to expand on that claim. Its is entirely possible that you and I both know next to nothing on the subject compared to the experts but only one of us was making a claim. I have made no claims whatsoever, I simply pointed out that you cant say on one hand that you know nothing, then in the next breath claim that 50% of stuff is made up. It's fair to say that you and I both agree that nothing will be resolved by loons. Lord, I was being sarcastic calling myself a dumbass. Once again I myself am no expert in this field, but I know enough to know that there is enough lies, spin and propaganda within alot of the infomation that these people present to us as pure facts. And alot of money can be made by the Industrialized nations by fear and thats always been the case. I've got not doubt that our climate is changing. Its always changing. Cold...to hot then back again..And it has been doing this since time began. I can not challenge the truth that our climate is in a state of constant flux. But what I do question is the popular believe about what drives these changes. We have been led to believe that increasing levels of CO2 in our atmosphere is actually causing global warming. People throughout the world have been sold this to be the 100% truth because of the ‘obvious fact’ that there is a close relationship between CO2 levels in the atmosphere and temperature. The climate temperatures are controlled and driven by the sun the source of ALL the earth’s energy since the beginning of the universe. Dont get me wrong we are doing alot of sh** to this world that we dont know anything about there long term effects are. C02 emissions included...But what about us taking all the oil from the earths core? Im more concerened about the earths service caving in one day through sink holes than the earth warming up naturally. If these people were not so patronising,ignorant and just lazy in the views and approach then I wouldnt even be posting on this thread. Thats my arguement with them. |
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Post by Gassy on Mar 8, 2020 22:27:45 GMT
I assume you’re exaggerating/joking when you’re talking about oil coming from the Earth’s core and the Earths surface collapsing in on itself?
You’ve said once again that there are lies and propaganda being spread. This isn’t the first time, can you show me the lies, who they come from, where they come from and who the propaganda is coming from?
Why in earth would any country, especially an industrialized one, lie about global warming? What benefit is there to spend billions upon billions for no reason and for no real return on investment? We have a bigger problem of countries denying global warming ffs
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Post by inee on Mar 9, 2020 11:33:17 GMT
Thing is though stu that site like many is one sided, tis a bit like the leave/remain websites that sprang up. The trick is to read sites that are both for and against climate change, the truth will probably be somewhere in the middle, the reality is that in the general scheme of things it matters not a jot what we do. Its the countries that take the waste we sell em be it general or toxic waste all we have done is appear to be concerned whilst bellyaching at places who just burn our waste, why arnt we and others boycotting those other countries that are destroying the rain-forest etc |
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Post by inee on Mar 9, 2020 11:51:18 GMT
And that really winds you up does it? Do you think she may have recycled it or used it to set fire to a forest? Plastic would be a poor choice to start a fire in a forest. At least use a decent example you wet wipe plastic is a good way to start and keep a fire going in a forest (allegedly) ,varoius types of plastic are very flammable |
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Post by inee on Mar 9, 2020 11:57:20 GMT
getting back on topic ,why do people think that dust masks will do anything to stop then contracting coronavirus or any other virus, im not sure that even a noddy suit would be any protection
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 9, 2020 11:58:13 GMT
Thing is though stu that site like many is one sided, tis a bit like the leave/remain websites that sprang up. The trick is to read sites that are both for and against climate change, the truth will probably be somewhere in the middle, the reality is that in the general scheme of things it matters not a jot what we do. Its the countries that take the waste we sell em be it general or toxic waste all we have done is appear to be concerned whilst bellyaching at places who just burn our waste, why arnt we and others boycotting those other countries that are destroying the rain-forest etc It may seem one sided, maybe there is a good reason for that and it isn't the conspiratorial one. |
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Post by inee on Mar 9, 2020 12:52:14 GMT
Maybe that site is the conspiracy site, what i was trying to point out is that you cant rely on just one site ,to be the gospel on any particular issue, you need to see the arguments from both sides, the problem these days is that so many believe everything they read on the net and will not check out other sources.
Thinking back someone posted a link to something published on a right wing site, many people said im not reading that its from a right wing site so it will be bullshit etc, i found the same document on a left wing site and posted the link many then read the article from the new link but still refused to look at the same article on the right wing site, the article was written by the right wing site and copied in its entirety by the left wing site. This paragraph was to illustrate my point that many people only look at one side not both.
In the grand scheme of things the only way to allow the planet survive a bit longer is to wipe out the human race
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 9, 2020 13:07:38 GMT
Maybe that site is the conspiracy site, what i was trying to point out is that you cant rely on just one site ,to be the gospel on any particular issue, you need to see the arguments from both sides, the problem these days is that so many believe everything they read on the net and will not check out other sources. Thinking back someone posted a link to something published on a right wing site, many people said im not reading that its from a right wing site so it will be bullshit etc, i found the same document on a left wing site and posted the link many then read the article from the new link but still refused to look at the same article on the right wing site, the article was written by the right wing site and copied in its entirety by the left wing site. This paragraph was to illustrate my point that many people only look at one side not both. In the grand scheme of things the only way to allow the planet survive a bit longer is to wipe out the human race You know I don't rely on one source, I linked that site purely as a summary of the questions raised. My own view has been formed based on reading, hearing and following the issues for over 30 years, taking in all views. Your last point is not really true, we can be responsible and make things sustainable. Population increase does need to be addressed though. |
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Post by inee on Mar 9, 2020 13:30:41 GMT
Stu like many things sustainability can be introduced tomorrow but like other things and technology, there probably isn't enough money in it for it to go mainstream.
I asked several people about what they would give up to help etc, most when pressed wouldn't change anything ,it seems a lot of people are attached to those little luxuries we dint have years back.
If it require a slight amount of effort from some they wont do it, simple things like recycling get rid of use by and sale by dates, after a while food waste will drop by vast amounts
Another angle is if more people generated their own electricity ,the reality would be electric prices going up, which could be the reason for price hikes in recent years.
People keep on about greta doing good for the enviroment, many people don't even know the name Boyan Slat. He is getting his hands dirty and tackling some issues hands on
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 9, 2020 15:14:40 GMT
I have just tried to order our usual Tesco shop on line, many items now unavailable.
Popped to another supermarket and not much om their shelves either, especially pasta and bread flour. Whilst there, I saw someone walk out with 3 9-roll packs of loo roll.
Bags - was that you? 🤔
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 15:19:36 GMT
I have just tried to order our usual Tesco shop on line, many items now unavailable. Popped to another supermarket and not much om their shelves either, especially pasta and bread flour. Whilst there, I saw someone walk out with 3 9-roll packs of loo roll. Bags - was that you? 🤔 Absolute idiotic behaviour by some. Media fuelling with scare stories doesn’t help either. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 16:08:49 GMT
I have just tried to order our usual Tesco shop on line, many items now unavailable. Popped to another supermarket and not much om their shelves either, especially pasta and bread flour. Whilst there, I saw someone walk out with 3 9-roll packs of loo roll. Bags - was that you? 🤔 I saw something similar here in Germany on Saturday, some old git with eight large packs of bog roll in his trolly. |
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