Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 13:41:53 GMT
My view on welfare is that there far too many on it. Too many make a lifestyle choice and too many claim to be too unwell for work. I think for those with serious disabilities the amount of welfare should be paid at 2 or 3 times the current rate. Those that do not work but are fit and well should have to make some meaningful contribution to society. I don’t think this makes me some sort of Ogre, the benefit system is brilliant but does get abused and it’s almost seen as an acceptable situation. Unfortunately, any government trying to create a fairer system just gets voted down as picking on the poor. Anyway, that’s a debate for another day as the current bailout is an emergency, short term solution to a near impossible situation and which cannot possibly be expected to cover every scenario and there will be some losers. Hopefully this will prove short term as at the current rate of 80% is it feasible to carry on for months, maybe years? Will a very long term shutdown do more damage to mental and physical health as well as irreparable damage to the economy which will impact several future generations? the whole thing is a nightmare and I pray for a vaccine soon the same as everyone else. Iiirc the government pledge was for up to three years. The thing is, obviously screwing future generations is a concern but what is the alternative? Imagine what would happen to society if all business was allowed to fail and everyone went on to universal credit? Never mind social distancing, there would be anarchy! We’d see riots in the streets- would you rather have the complete collapse of the social fabric of society or we borrow from the future? Like I said, we’ve done it before for the banks, compared to a triviality like that this is far more deserving of government intervention. These are the highest stakes around and business can’t be allowed to fail. I really don’t know what alternatives there will be. Every outcome looks sh** - hard to guess which will be the least sh**. Horrible situation for any government to have to manage. If a vaccine is years away how long do we continue as we are? Will there be a point at which say under 50’s just resume your normal activities and the unhealthy and elderly continue to self isolate as much as is reasonably possible for a more extended period. I don’t know. Will years of social isolation have a similar impact on our social fabric, mental health and long term health and economic well-being? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 13:47:04 GMT
I would class myself as down the middle in political terms. However Corbyn is watering me off. It's easy to sit back and point out people's mistakes when you don't have to take accountability for those decisions. Listening to Corbyn at the moment makes me equally as sick as when hearing stories of profiteering and scamming amidst this crisis. I also heard that there is a leaked recording of Labour Chairman Lavery during a conference call saying of covid-19 “what a great opportunity it’s going to give us”. Charming ehh? |
|
Marshy
Proper Gas
Posts: 14,395 
|
Post by Marshy on Mar 27, 2020 13:48:42 GMT
Iiirc the government pledge was for up to three years. The thing is, obviously screwing future generations is a concern but what is the alternative? Imagine what would happen to society if all business was allowed to fail and everyone went on to universal credit? Never mind social distancing, there would be anarchy! We’d see riots in the streets- would you rather have the complete collapse of the social fabric of society or we borrow from the future? Like I said, we’ve done it before for the banks, compared to a triviality like that this is far more deserving of government intervention. These are the highest stakes around and business can’t be allowed to fail. I really don’t know what alternatives there will be. Every outcome looks sh** - hard to guess which will be the least sh**. Horrible situation for any government to have to manage. If a vaccine is years away how long do we continue as we are? Will there be a point at which say under 50’s just resume your normal activities and the unhealthy and elderly continue to self isolate as much as is reasonably possible for a more extended period. I don’t know. Will years of social isolation have a similar impact on our social fabric, mental health and long term health and economic well-being? Dam hell eric that’s depressing! I don’t know whether to reach for the Stella or the razor blades? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 13:59:41 GMT
I really don’t know what alternatives there will be. Every outcome looks sh** - hard to guess which will be the least sh**. Horrible situation for any government to have to manage. If a vaccine is years away how long do we continue as we are? Will there be a point at which say under 50’s just resume your normal activities and the unhealthy and elderly continue to self isolate as much as is reasonably possible for a more extended period. I don’t know. Will years of social isolation have a similar impact on our social fabric, mental health and long term health and economic well-being? f**king hell eric that’s depressing! I don’t know whether to reach for the Stella or the razor blades? Use a bottle opener, its easier and safer😜 |
|
|
|
Post by Gas Go Marching In on Mar 27, 2020 14:03:41 GMT
Which point? He is coming out with points left, right and centre. A dig a minute. The point about underfunding of public services for the past 10 years during austerity has caused problems in delivering services and made us far more vulnerable to deal with the CV crisis. Even BJ and his government have recognised this and has started to change this mindset. And of course Stuart is correct in apportioning blame to Corbyn through his complete inability to ever present as a credible alternative. The bloke is getting tiresome now. Labour need a change of leader. He peaked 3 years ago at Glastonbury and has been on the decline ever since. Goodbye Corbyn. |
|
|
|
Post by Officer Barbrady on Mar 27, 2020 14:23:50 GMT
As much as I am sure it is nice for you to be able to blame someone else for your voting choice, it is a cowardly supposition frankly. You see, it didn't take long to get insults from the Lefties. This is the alternative to Boris. Not for me at all. Proud to have voted Tory. Its not an insult I'm saying you should own it that's all. |
|
|
|
Post by althepirate on Mar 27, 2020 14:29:57 GMT
You see, it didn't take long to get insults from the Lefties. This is the alternative to Boris. Not for me at all. Proud to have voted Tory. Its not an insult I'm saying you should own it that's all. Calling someone a coward is not an insult! What I'm owning is a right to free speech and a free vote free against suppression by the left wing bullies and a right to democracy. You call someone a coward and then say it's not an insult, you own it! |
|
|
|
Post by inee on Mar 27, 2020 14:32:43 GMT
The whole point of it is that it’s there to cover those who would struggle while knowing that some *may* get some extra benefit. From previous posts it seems that you have a poor view of the welfare state due to your job and it has made you cynical as to the role it plays. The welfare state is there to primarily protect the vulnerable and as it is an imperfect system part of that is the acceptance that some might find ways to game the system. But that is like a lot of things in life- very rarely are things so perfectly sliceable down the middle that the losers win and the winners lose. It’s just the way it is, you can’t have an omelette without breaking some eggs etc...I also doubt that people are having a great time if they have been put on to the governments bail out as there is still no guarantee there will be a demand for the sector they work in when things get back to normal because quite frankly no-one knows what normal is. This is a time of great stress and uncertainty and anyone who is having a high old time right now and thinking they are getting money for nothing I would suggest is obviously too hard of thinking to figure out what the long terms consequences are and whether they will still have a job or industry to go back to at the end of it. Oldie also raises a good point about stimulating the economy although how much of the economy can be stimulated at the moment with vast portions of hospitality and retail shut down is up for debate so that is a lesser effect at this time imo. There are also other factors such as mental health, I’m sure everyone here appreciates the toll this will take on the mental health of everyone anyway, spare a thought for the poor sod who would be told not only is there a pandemic that is going to cost him his loved ones but he also has the worry of losing 40% his income to contend with. I’m sorry, but to me this is a nonstarter, if some banks are too big to fail for their CDS and CDO shenanigans then we can bail out the workers of the country during a time of grave national consequence and worry about how it’s financed later. My view on welfare is that there far too many on it. Too many make a lifestyle choice and too many claim to be too unwell for work. I think for those with serious disabilities the amount of welfare should be paid at 2 or 3 times the current rate. Those that do not work but are fit and well should have to make some meaningful contribution to society. I don’t think this makes me some sort of Ogre, the benefit system is brilliant but does get abused and it’s almost seen as an acceptable situation. Unfortunately, any government trying to create a fairer system just gets voted down as picking on the poor. Anyway, that’s a debate for another day as the current bailout is an emergency, short term solution to a near impossible situation and which cannot possibly be expected to cover every scenario and there will be some losers. Hopefully this will prove short term as at the current rate of 80% is it feasible to carry on for months, maybe years? Will a very long term shutdown do more damage to mental and physical health as well as irreparable damage to the economy which will impact several future generations? the whole thing is a nightmare and I pray for a vaccine soon the same as everyone else. Eric I can answer that one yes there are some who take the water out of the benefit system, and when caught they get charged if guilty and they have some assets then these can be seized and sold on this happens more and more. Living on benefits is no fun but was manageable, however for most it means not going out ,it's an endless cycle of pay bills, buy food not a lot left. You also have to realise that there are different categories for the unemployed the reason for this is so that governments can massage unemployment figures, what i mean by this is there are differing benefits for differing categories, ie unemployment benefit easy to work out, next if you are looking after some one who is disabled or long term ill, you get incapacity benefit, if you are in prison you get no benefit, but you are also removed from the unemployment figures, i'm sure you can see where that is going. It's not all cream buns and pimms on the dole(yeah i know i'm that old). Here's a quick example of the way it was ,hubby disabled ,wife carer, you get incapacity benefit as wife is caring for hubby, hubby gets or got dla, between i think it was 30 80 a week paid monthly(Dla was not means tested and was available to those working or not its paid to give the disabled person help in paying for extras they need from day to day). Quick recap hubby disabled and getting Dla,wife getting careers allowance up to 80 a month(paid monthly). Due to the above both although unemployed sign on and instead of unemployment benefit(UB from now on) , they are moved onto incapacity benefit see what happened there, yup 2 more of the unemployment figures. This is where it gets odd, so wife gets carers allowance this is classed as an incoming and therefore gets taken off the incapacity benefit, so in effect its no bloody help to anyone. This was changed to a much fairer system right wrong on many levels, what has happened is is housing benefit has been capped, limits on amounts paid out,a 5 week wait for an answer or first payment. So universal credit rounds up all other benefits into one lump sum and is paid to your bank. You then have to divvy it up and pay it out yourselves, as in the past things like rent and council tax was paid straight across and you never saw it, can you see why people are getting in a mess. An awful lot of people will pay bills get food then think oh sh** i haven't payed rent, this was one of the biggest issues with universal credit, although i believe you can now get the rent transferred across like under the old system. Then you have dla for a lot it has changed to pip this i believe is now included in the universal credit calculations. With pip the criteria with almost identical questions was the same as dla however the way it gets awarded has changed with the mentally ill being severely penalised because you get 2 components you get help with day to day activities, you also get help with getting around, now what was happening was people who were mentally ill were asked to move 20 yds unaided the to balance ,walk with eyes closed etc, use they could do this the motability part was removed, where what was sposed to happen was the mentally ill were supposed to be assessed on if they or others were safe going out alone. So as UC is payed monthly with a 5 week delay and payed in arrears, bills etc could not be paid then were always a month behind can you see whats happening here, the doles answer is an emergency loan which if you qualify for gets stopped every month out of your uc . in effect putting those people in debt.*they encourage people to take a loan). Again with UC apart from being in arrears it varies from month to month, people get sanctioned some fairly some unfairly, for various reasons, appointment clashes, illness etc. So for bringing in this fair new system people are a lot worse of than before and the 1/2 million new claimants due to corronavirus are going to get a rough time financially, oh i forgot to say you are also expected to know what benefits you can claim as they will tell you to claim things like tax credits, its a complicated system which always falls in favour of the dss, and by god just hope they never over pay you. I feel a lot more people will come to understand how bad it is to be unemployed and realise that those on the dole aren't minting it in. Not having a go but trying to show that it isn't fun relying on the state to live If you want to know more gissa pm |
|
|
|
Post by inee on Mar 27, 2020 14:45:03 GMT
Just been announced that Boris has tested positive for Coronavirus 😱 Thank feck he ain't got bird flu as he'd be talking like dianne abbot by now  |
|
|
|
Post by Gas Go Marching In on Mar 27, 2020 14:57:39 GMT
185 in 24 hours for UK. Not good. We're on the incline.
|
|
|
|
Post by gas2 on Mar 27, 2020 15:10:23 GMT
Was thinking the weekend after next is Easter you know what happens people will be going mental in the shops more than they have so far also I wonder if Easter Sunday shop opening will be extended to help the hoards bombard the shops
|
|
|
|
Post by inee on Mar 27, 2020 15:18:00 GMT
Well if the feckwits want to spend all their dosh on chocolate the well feck em
|
|
|
|
Post by inee on Mar 27, 2020 15:20:33 GMT
185 in 24 hours for UK. Not good. We're on the incline. The one i tend to worry about are the hidden dead, by that i mean those poor sods who are alone and have no one, they normally get discovered by either people thinking oh i ain't seen fred for a while then call the police, but now all those freds may go unnoticed for a long while, how high that figure will be is anybodies guess |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 15:33:44 GMT
My view on welfare is that there far too many on it. Too many make a lifestyle choice and too many claim to be too unwell for work. I think for those with serious disabilities the amount of welfare should be paid at 2 or 3 times the current rate. Those that do not work but are fit and well should have to make some meaningful contribution to society. I don’t think this makes me some sort of Ogre, the benefit system is brilliant but does get abused and it’s almost seen as an acceptable situation. Unfortunately, any government trying to create a fairer system just gets voted down as picking on the poor. Anyway, that’s a debate for another day as the current bailout is an emergency, short term solution to a near impossible situation and which cannot possibly be expected to cover every scenario and there will be some losers. Hopefully this will prove short term as at the current rate of 80% is it feasible to carry on for months, maybe years? Will a very long term shutdown do more damage to mental and physical health as well as irreparable damage to the economy which will impact several future generations? the whole thing is a nightmare and I pray for a vaccine soon the same as everyone else. Eric I can answer that one yes there are some who take the water out of the benefit system, and when caught they get charged if guilty and they have some assets then these can be seized and sold on this happens more and more. Living on benefits is no fun but was manageable, however for most it means not going out ,it's an endless cycle of pay bills, buy food not a lot left. You also have to realise that there are different categories for the unemployed the reason for this is so that governments can massage unemployment figures, what i mean by this is there are differing benefits for differing categories, ie unemployment benefit easy to work out, next if you are looking after some one who is disabled or long term ill, you get incapacity benefit, if you are in prison you get no benefit, but you are also removed from the unemployment figures, i'm sure you can see where that is going. It's not all cream buns and pimms on the dole(yeah i know i'm that old). Here's a quick example of the way it was ,hubby disabled ,wife carer, you get incapacity benefit as wife is caring for hubby, hubby gets or got dla, between i think it was 30 80 a week paid monthly(Dla was not means tested and was available to those working or not its paid to give the disabled person help in paying for extras they need from day to day). Quick recap hubby disabled and getting Dla,wife getting careers allowance up to 80 a month(paid monthly). Due to the above both although unemployed sign on and instead of unemployment benefit(UB from now on) , they are moved onto incapacity benefit see what happened there, yup 2 more of the unemployment figures. This is where it gets odd, so wife gets carers allowance this is classed as an incoming and therefore gets taken off the incapacity benefit, so in effect its no bloody help to anyone. This was changed to a much fairer system right wrong on many levels, what has happened is is housing benefit has been capped, limits on amounts paid out,a 5 week wait for an answer or first payment. So universal credit rounds up all other benefits into one lump sum and is paid to your bank. You then have to divvy it up and pay it out yourselves, as in the past things like rent and council tax was paid straight across and you never saw it, can you see why people are getting in a mess. An awful lot of people will pay bills get food then think oh sh** i haven't payed rent, this was one of the biggest issues with universal credit, although i believe you can now get the rent transferred across like under the old system. Then you have dla for a lot it has changed to pip this i believe is now included in the universal credit calculations. With pip the criteria with almost identical questions was the same as dla however the way it gets awarded has changed with the mentally ill being severely penalised because you get 2 components you get help with day to day activities, you also get help with getting around, now what was happening was people who were mentally ill were asked to move 20 yds unaided the to balance ,walk with eyes closed etc, use they could do this the motability part was removed, where what was sposed to happen was the mentally ill were supposed to be assessed on if they or others were safe going out alone. So as UC is payed monthly with a 5 week delay and payed in arrears, bills etc could not be paid then were always a month behind can you see whats happening here, the doles answer is an emergency loan which if you qualify for gets stopped every month out of your uc . in effect putting those people in debt.*they encourage people to take a loan). Again with UC apart from being in arrears it varies from month to month, people get sanctioned some fairly some unfairly, for various reasons, appointment clashes, illness etc. So for bringing in this fair new system people are a lot worse of than before and the 1/2 million new claimants due to corronavirus are going to get a rough time financially, oh i forgot to say you are also expected to know what benefits you can claim as they will tell you to claim things like tax credits, its a complicated system which always falls in favour of the dss, and by god just hope they never over pay you. I feel a lot more people will come to understand how bad it is to be unemployed and realise that those on the dole aren't minting it in. Not having a go but trying to show that it isn't fun relying on the state to live If you want to know more gissa pm Thanks. I know the system is pretty useless in sorting out claims and this something I was aware of when UC was being rolled out and an expert came into our workplace to talk us through it. You could see a lot of the problems coming. When I see the difficulties some families have it makes me feel even stronger that they deserve so much more, certainly financially more but also other forms of support. It’s why I get set annoyed by a generation (not all but in huge numbers) who view benefits as a lifestyle choice when we should be using the system to provide for those who most need it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 15:39:27 GMT
185 in 24 hours for UK. Not good. We're on the incline. The one i tend to worry about are the hidden dead, by that i mean those poor sods who are alone and have no one, they normally get discovered by either people thinking oh i ain't seen fred for a while then call the police, but now all those freds may go unnoticed for a long while, how high that figure will be is anybodies guess The one positive from all this is that I’ve seen a lot of community support. People seem to be looking out for each other a bit more, volunteering to run an errand or do a bit of shopping etc. What a community should be like anyway I suppose. Hopefully this new spirit will stop the likes of Fred going unnoticed, the number of people volunteering to help the NHS is very heartening and restores a bit of faith in humanity. My running buddy works in day care for disabled adults 4 days per week. His sister, a nurse for many years, left the NHS and profession a few years ago to become a self employed dog walker. Both have volunteered. I think the Queens and New Years honours should look a bit different going forward! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 15:41:44 GMT
I really don’t know what alternatives there will be. Every outcome looks sh** - hard to guess which will be the least sh**. Horrible situation for any government to have to manage. If a vaccine is years away how long do we continue as we are? Will there be a point at which say under 50’s just resume your normal activities and the unhealthy and elderly continue to self isolate as much as is reasonably possible for a more extended period. I don’t know. Will years of social isolation have a similar impact on our social fabric, mental health and long term health and economic well-being? f**king hell eric that’s depressing! I don’t know whether to reach for the Stella or the razor blades? Sorry mate - stick to the Stella. Everything will be ok in the morning! |
|
|
|
Post by althepirate on Mar 27, 2020 15:47:54 GMT
185 in 24 hours for UK. Not good. We're on the incline. The one i tend to worry about are the hidden dead, by that i mean those poor sods who are alone and have no one, they normally get discovered by either people thinking oh i ain't seen fred for a while then call the police, but now all those freds may go unnoticed for a long while, how high that figure will be is anybodies guess That says a lot about you mate, thinking about Fred 👍 |
|
|
|
Post by peterparker on Mar 27, 2020 15:52:19 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Officer Barbrady on Mar 27, 2020 15:59:05 GMT
Its not an insult I'm saying you should own it that's all. Calling someone a coward is not an insult! What I'm owning is a right to free speech and a free vote free against suppression by the left wing bullies and a right to democracy. You call someone a coward and then say it's not an insult, you own it! I said its a cowardly supposition. That's not calling you a coward its saying you used a cowardly supposition. Which I believe you did, wholeheartedly. |
|
|
|
Post by scoobydoogas on Mar 27, 2020 16:01:35 GMT
I despair at the people in my street at the moment. 6 households have had family visit today. At this very moment my neighbour who is on 13 weeks lockdown due to having received one of the 1.5M letters is safely inside while his missus is happily nattering to her visiting family (son, his wife, their kid and their dog) in the front garden. No distancing going on.
I'm working from home and it's driving me nuts so I go for a 2 mile walk every lunchtime for my exercise. It always seems to be me that has to cross the road or walk in the road to be able to keep my distance from other people. These other people don't seem to understand distancing. Today I had two annoying things happen on my walk. On one occasion I crossed the road to avoid a bloke coming directly at me and he crossed the road to make the point of making me cross back again. Laughed as he did it. On the second occasion, there was a family of misfits walking towards me so I crossed the road. Then I heard one look up and say "look at that twat crossing the road. What the f**k's the matter with him".
|
|
