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Post by yattongas on Jun 24, 2022 21:54:01 GMT
Well That's bollox as well. No, this guy is chicken sh**. Personally I would prefer to debate Gashead79 on the merits or otherwise of the things he says. Personal attacks make you look silly, not him. His belief that healthy lifestyle is based in reality. We have been told for years and years that healthy diet and exercise is the best things to prevent cancer, diabetes, heart disease etcetera. It is an inarguable fact that Vitamin C helps lower the risk of common colds. The common cold is a coronavirus. However, I do not accept for one moment, no matter how many times Gashead79 states anecdotal evidence, that an improved lifestyle is the sensible treatment for a global pandemic. Because it is not. The demographics do not support this. Healthy people have similar infection rates. The co-morbidity and effects of Covid may be worse for us fatties but that does not give the right for "healthy people" to go around infecting as many people as they see fit. I also think that his citing of poorer nations having lower numbers as evidence is also a non starter because it does not take into account social factors, data collection or even truth. All of this could be debated without calling him a liar and a coward. Based on the evidence presented I think possibly misguided and selfish, but I am sure Gashead79 could call me easily led and moralising, yet he has not done so. Funny that , you didn’t mind a personal attack on me . I prefer to call-out utter bollox for what it is . The man is deluded and if you want to give him credence carry on . I will not because it’s nonsense. |
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Post by fintanstack on Jun 25, 2022 5:14:26 GMT
"It is an inarguable fact that Vitamin C helps lower the risk of common colds. The common cold is a coronavirus." But the degree and value to which your body has to ingest Vitamin C makes that argument invalid. Nobody does. Nor probably could during a normal daily cycle. I agree. I think Gashead79's stance on healthy lifestyle and how it relates to Coronavirus can be easily knocked down. That does not mean I am not able to understand how he may have come to his conclusion. I think his thought process amounts to someone who is happy telling a person with chronic clinical depression to cheer up. I also do not think he has done enough to convince me that just because he is healthy that that is the reason he has not contacted Covid. I have known other fit and healthy antivaxers who did catch it, and one in particular was very poorly with it. He also refused to wear a mask and so while I was secretly smug that he caught it, I was also angry about all the people he would have been in contact with. |
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Post by fintanstack on Jun 25, 2022 5:21:56 GMT
Personally I would prefer to debate Gashead79 on the merits or otherwise of the things he says. Personal attacks make you look silly, not him. His belief that healthy lifestyle is based in reality. We have been told for years and years that healthy diet and exercise is the best things to prevent cancer, diabetes, heart disease etcetera. It is an inarguable fact that Vitamin C helps lower the risk of common colds. The common cold is a coronavirus. However, I do not accept for one moment, no matter how many times Gashead79 states anecdotal evidence, that an improved lifestyle is the sensible treatment for a global pandemic. Because it is not. The demographics do not support this. Healthy people have similar infection rates. The co-morbidity and effects of Covid may be worse for us fatties but that does not give the right for "healthy people" to go around infecting as many people as they see fit. I also think that his citing of poorer nations having lower numbers as evidence is also a non starter because it does not take into account social factors, data collection or even truth. All of this could be debated without calling him a liar and a coward. Based on the evidence presented I think possibly misguided and selfish, but I am sure Gashead79 could call me easily led and moralising, yet he has not done so. Funny that , you didn’t mind a personal attack on me . I prefer to call-out utter bollox for what it is . The man is deluded and if you want to give him credence carry on . I will not because it’s nonsense. You took a joke the wrong way, called me stuck up or condescending or something similar. I admit I was amused and carried it on a bit just to wind you up. No personal offence intended and I was wrong to have done so. I should have just explained the misunderstanding at the time. I am aware I have a blunt way of communicating sometimes which can seem worse from the written word. |
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Post by oldie on Jun 25, 2022 8:09:45 GMT
"It is an inarguable fact that Vitamin C helps lower the risk of common colds. The common cold is a coronavirus." But the degree and value to which your body has to ingest Vitamin C makes that argument invalid. Nobody does. Nor probably could during a normal daily cycle. I agree. I think Gashead79's stance on healthy lifestyle and how it relates to Coronavirus can be easily knocked down. That does not mean I am not able to understand how he may have come to his conclusion. I think his thought process amounts to someone who is happy telling a person with chronic clinical depression to cheer up. I also do not think he has done enough to convince me that just because he is healthy that that is the reason he has not contacted Covid. I have known other fit and healthy antivaxers who did catch it, and one in particular was very poorly with it. He also refused to wear a mask and so while I was secretly smug that he caught it, I was also angry about all the people he would have been in contact with. I think we agree, your last sentence summed up my feelings precisely. Which is why I am angered by GH79's comments precisely because his position can lead to the example in your experience. |
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Post by gashead79 on Jun 26, 2022 6:55:53 GMT
Well That's bollox as well. No, this guy is chicken sh**. Personally I would prefer to debate Gashead79 on the merits or otherwise of the things he says. Personal attacks make you look silly, not him. His belief that healthy lifestyle is based in reality. We have been told for years and years that healthy diet and exercise is the best things to prevent cancer, diabetes, heart disease etcetera. It is an inarguable fact that Vitamin C helps lower the risk of common colds. The common cold is a coronavirus. However, I do not accept for one moment, no matter how many times Gashead79 states anecdotal evidence, that an improved lifestyle is the sensible treatment for a global pandemic. Because it is not. The demographics do not support this. Healthy people have similar infection rates. The co-morbidity and effects of Covid may be worse for us fatties but that does not give the right for "healthy people" to go around infecting as many people as they see fit. I also think that his citing of poorer nations having lower numbers as evidence is also a non starter because it does not take into account social factors, data collection or even truth. All of this could be debated without calling him a liar and a coward. Based on the evidence presented I think possibly misguided and selfish, but I am sure Gashead79 could call me easily led and moralising, yet he has not done so. Thanks. I do look at the poorer nations and am interested in the stats and treatments that they use as an alternative to vaccinations. In the UK, we seem to be in a box, unaware that other countries have to do it another way due to religion, wealth, cultural practices etc. Even in China, their health system considers traditional medicines as a treatment for covid. Whereas here, if you were to go see a GP, they would only recommend the jabs as prevention/treatment.. When we talk of Global pandemic, it is easy to fall into the trap of thinking there is a global response, however that is unrealistic and not necessarily the best action. I am no expert/professor but just thinking about it for a few minutes reveals the hurdles. We were told the jab was a choice. We were told lockdowns were to flatten the curve and protect the NHS. We were told the first(and only) jab was for vulnerable, elderly people. I see many countries with a flattened curve who used various degrees of control or lockdown. I see choice being driven by blackmail and coercion. I see people getting jab number 3 or 4, still able to catch, pass and die from(with) covid. I see these experts trying to jab my kids. I see the 💰 and the big movers in the markets. I also converse with people in those percieved poorer nations doing things a different way and they seem to be doing better than us. But thanks again, it's truly refreshing to have a bit of back n forth. |
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Post by gashead79 on Jun 26, 2022 6:57:51 GMT
Correct. I spent a portion of my life travelling abroad often. Oh, we are going to play this game are we. I spent 30% of my adult life actually living abroad and whilst domiciled in the UK, a large proportion of my working years travelling. Should I claim I am more vaccinated than anyone else? Ffs, It's not supposed to be a competition. I am relating the gact that I've had many, many jabs due to my travel previously. You e declared the USA bit but I don't believe that is a country where any funky jabs are required? Obviously not aware of your other travels but I have been around and required vaccinations for that. |
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Post by gashead79 on Jun 26, 2022 6:59:49 GMT
And you are very rude. How old are you oldie? Does it matter? But for the record...70 It matters to better understand your angles of view, yes. I'm in my 40s. So I can now understand why you might feel the need to claim higher ground as use the language that you do. The average 20 year old debates in a different way you see.. |
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Post by gashead79 on Jun 26, 2022 7:05:39 GMT
I agree. I think Gashead79's stance on healthy lifestyle and how it relates to Coronavirus can be easily knocked down. That does not mean I am not able to understand how he may have come to his conclusion. I think his thought process amounts to someone who is happy telling a person with chronic clinical depression to cheer up. I also do not think he has done enough to convince me that just because he is healthy that that is the reason he has not contacted Covid. I have known other fit and healthy antivaxers who did catch it, and one in particular was very poorly with it. He also refused to wear a mask and so while I was secretly smug that he caught it, I was also angry about all the people he would have been in contact with. I think we agree, your last sentence summed up my feelings precisely. Which is why I am angered by GH79's comments precisely because his position can lead to the example in your experience. Please bear in mind that there were approximately 100k NHS and healthcare staff at risk of losing their jobs due to refusing the first jab. Then the govt did a U turn.. Some of those staff were frontline workers on respiratory wards who worked throughout the crisis without proper ppe, or indeed 'vaccinations'. It took Dr James to confront Javid live on the news to wake a few people up to a viewpoint at odds with the script! Lastly, 2 of my sisters were frontline but both are not now due to being unjabbed and jumping ship before the U turn. Combined experience of 35 years on the wards and in secondary care. |
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Post by fintanstack on Jun 26, 2022 7:24:13 GMT
Personally I would prefer to debate Gashead79 on the merits or otherwise of the things he says. Personal attacks make you look silly, not him. His belief that healthy lifestyle is based in reality. We have been told for years and years that healthy diet and exercise is the best things to prevent cancer, diabetes, heart disease etcetera. It is an inarguable fact that Vitamin C helps lower the risk of common colds. The common cold is a coronavirus. However, I do not accept for one moment, no matter how many times Gashead79 states anecdotal evidence, that an improved lifestyle is the sensible treatment for a global pandemic. Because it is not. The demographics do not support this. Healthy people have similar infection rates. The co-morbidity and effects of Covid may be worse for us fatties but that does not give the right for "healthy people" to go around infecting as many people as they see fit. I also think that his citing of poorer nations having lower numbers as evidence is also a non starter because it does not take into account social factors, data collection or even truth. All of this could be debated without calling him a liar and a coward. Based on the evidence presented I think possibly misguided and selfish, but I am sure Gashead79 could call me easily led and moralising, yet he has not done so. Thanks. I do look at the poorer nations and am interested in the stats and treatments that they use as an alternative to vaccinations. In the UK, we seem to be in a box, unaware that other countries have to do it another way due to religion, wealth, cultural practices etc. Even in China, their health system considers traditional medicines as a treatment for covid. Whereas here, if you were to go see a GP, they would only recommend the jabs as prevention/treatment.. When we talk of Global pandemic, it is easy to fall into the trap of thinking there is a global response, however that is unrealistic and not necessarily the best action. I am no expert/professor but just thinking about it for a few minutes reveals the hurdles. We were told the jab was a choice. We were told lockdowns were to flatten the curve and protect the NHS. We were told the first(and only) jab was for vulnerable, elderly people. I see many countries with a flattened curve who used various degrees of control or lockdown. I see choice being driven by blackmail and coercion. I see people getting jab number 3 or 4, still able to catch, pass and die from(with) covid. I see these experts trying to jab my kids. I see the 💰 and the big movers in the markets. I also converse with people in those percieved poorer nations doing things a different way and they seem to be doing better than us. But thanks again, it's truly refreshing to have a bit of back n forth. The issue as I see it is that you are being far too simplistic in your assessment of poorer countries. You are comparing apples with oranges. Let's be a bit racist for a moment and assume everyone in Africa lives like they do on Comic Relief adverts. They have a hot climate, limited access to health care, they do not have tower blocks, they do not have large factories or cities. They also spend a lot of time outside. I realise I am being very simplistic, but it is very obvious that covid treatment in Africa is going to be very different to the UK. What were the responses of Germany, France, USA, Canada etcetera? I would think those countries would be a better comparison. |
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Post by Gassy on Jun 26, 2022 9:08:25 GMT
Vaccines were never stated to be a one and only dose.
That's just an outright lie.
And no, a random blog or crackpot online isn't an official source of the vaccines only ever being single dose
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Post by oldie on Jun 26, 2022 11:52:16 GMT
Does it matter? But for the record...70 It matters to better understand your angles of view, yes. I'm in my 40s. So I can now understand why you might feel the need to claim higher ground as use the language that you do. The average 20 year old debates in a different way you see.. That's an incredible, condescending, statement. To all age groups. |
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Post by oldie on Jun 26, 2022 11:59:00 GMT
Thanks. I do look at the poorer nations and am interested in the stats and treatments that they use as an alternative to vaccinations. In the UK, we seem to be in a box, unaware that other countries have to do it another way due to religion, wealth, cultural practices etc. Even in China, their health system considers traditional medicines as a treatment for covid. Whereas here, if you were to go see a GP, they would only recommend the jabs as prevention/treatment.. When we talk of Global pandemic, it is easy to fall into the trap of thinking there is a global response, however that is unrealistic and not necessarily the best action. I am no expert/professor but just thinking about it for a few minutes reveals the hurdles. We were told the jab was a choice. We were told lockdowns were to flatten the curve and protect the NHS. We were told the first(and only) jab was for vulnerable, elderly people. I see many countries with a flattened curve who used various degrees of control or lockdown. I see choice being driven by blackmail and coercion. I see people getting jab number 3 or 4, still able to catch, pass and die from(with) covid. I see these experts trying to jab my kids. I see the 💰 and the big movers in the markets. I also converse with people in those percieved poorer nations doing things a different way and they seem to be doing better than us. But thanks again, it's truly refreshing to have a bit of back n forth. The issue as I see it is that you are being far too simplistic in your assessment of poorer countries. You are comparing apples with oranges. Let's be a bit racist for a moment and assume everyone in Africa lives like they do on Comic Relief adverts. They have a hot climate, limited access to health care, they do not have tower blocks, they do not have large factories or cities. They also spend a lot of time outside. I realise I am being very simplistic, but it is very obvious that covid treatment in Africa is going to be very different to the UK. What were the responses of Germany, France, USA, Canada etcetera? I would think those countries would be a better comparison. As importantly, the age profiles in many African countries differ greatly from those in Western European nations. |
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Post by oldie on Jun 26, 2022 12:01:55 GMT
Vaccines were never stated to be a one and only dose. That's just an outright lie. And no, a random blog or crackpot online isn't an official source of the vaccines only ever being single dose Let's be frank. The responses from GH79 are absolutely bizarre. |
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Post by oldie on Jun 26, 2022 12:12:31 GMT
Oh, we are going to play this game are we. I spent 30% of my adult life actually living abroad and whilst domiciled in the UK, a large proportion of my working years travelling. Should I claim I am more vaccinated than anyone else? Ffs, It's not supposed to be a competition. I am relating the gact that I've had many, many jabs due to my travel previously. You e declared the USA bit but I don't believe that is a country where any funky jabs are required? Obviously not aware of your other travels but I have been around and required vaccinations for that. I have no idea what a "funky" jabs are? Perhaps you could elaborate using adult language? For the record the USA removed inbound testing and medical record requirements just two weeks ago. It is also true that there are many in the States that espouse the same nonsense as you. Subsequently they have suffered one of the worse death rates per capita in the developed world. And that is, in no small measure, down to people like you. |
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Post by aghast on Jun 27, 2022 16:59:01 GMT
I hear this stuff all the time from certain family members, who refused vaccinations, and were lucky enough not to have caught covid. This in their eyes is proof that vaccines are in some way pointless. I am guessing here, but they might have changed their tune if they had caught it. Sadly they take it a step further and insist the whole vaccination programme is part of a larger scheme to control society, managed by a shadowy world elite.
Nobody ever said that anyone who is vaccinated will never catch Covid. It was always an incomplete treatment. Perhaps rather more incomplete than the scientists and the public hoped, but it seems pretty clear to me that the correlation between the vaccination rollout and the declining death rate cannot be ignored.
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stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 12,540 
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 27, 2022 17:11:20 GMT
I hear this stuff all the time from certain family members, who refused vaccinations, and were lucky enough not to have caught covid. This in their eyes is proof that vaccines are in some way pointless. I am guessing here, but they might have changed their tune if they had caught it. Sadly they take it a step further and insist the whole vaccination programme is part of a larger scheme to control society, managed by a shadowy world elite. Nobody ever said that anyone who is vaccinated will never catch Covid. It was always an incomplete treatment. Perhaps rather more incomplete than the scientists and the public hoped, but it seems pretty clear to me that the correlation between the vaccination rollout and the declining death rate cannot be ignored. If they actually believe those types of conspiracy theories then it's unlikely you could reason with them anyway. |
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Post by oldie on Jun 28, 2022 18:22:08 GMT
I hear this stuff all the time from certain family members, who refused vaccinations, and were lucky enough not to have caught covid. This in their eyes is proof that vaccines are in some way pointless. I am guessing here, but they might have changed their tune if they had caught it. Sadly they take it a step further and insist the whole vaccination programme is part of a larger scheme to control society, managed by a shadowy world elite. Nobody ever said that anyone who is vaccinated will never catch Covid. It was always an incomplete treatment. Perhaps rather more incomplete than the scientists and the public hoped, but it seems pretty clear to me that the correlation between the vaccination rollout and the declining death rate cannot be ignored. If they actually believe those types of conspiracy theories then it's unlikely you could reason with them anyway. Precisely Or, and including, people like GH79 who, on paper, is willing to kill others on the back of his cowardice backed by crackpot ideology. What a guy. |
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Post by gashead79 on Jun 28, 2022 19:44:11 GMT
Vaccines were never stated to be a one and only dose. That's just an outright lie. And no, a random blog or crackpot online isn't an official source of the vaccines only ever being single dose We were told that every person would need 2 shots, 3 weeks apart, to be protected(fully vaccinated). |
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Post by gashead79 on Jun 28, 2022 19:46:07 GMT
It matters to better understand your angles of view, yes. I'm in my 40s. So I can now understand why you might feel the need to claim higher ground as use the language that you do. The average 20 year old debates in a different way you see.. That's an incredible, condescending, statement. To all age groups. It shouldn't be. Or am I supposed to say that everybody, regardless of age and life experience, converses in the same way? Nah, it's just you looking for angles to continue having a pop. Crack on, I'm truly not fussed what you think. |
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Post by gashead79 on Jun 28, 2022 19:51:22 GMT
Vaccines were never stated to be a one and only dose. That's just an outright lie. And no, a random blog or crackpot online isn't an official source of the vaccines only ever being single dose Let's be frank. The responses from GH79 are absolutely bizarre. In your opinion. |
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