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Post by oldie on Apr 5, 2021 18:28:44 GMT
Good debate. Taking one Stat that is true, Afro Carribbean and lower income white kids have lower education standards as measured by exam outcomes and tertiary education than the average. Why is that? Has failure become ingrained in their family structures? Has hope and ambition dissipated? Has a lack of investment in education in areas of higher density of those two groups been a causal factor? Are any of those questions applicable on a pan national basis in order to try and evaluate the issues as race based, or something else? Like Gastafari I spent time in the States and formed an opinion. I am also, personally, the product (horrible term but you know what I mean) of a lower income white working class background, which informs me (as Gastafari's background informs him) I wonder all this out loud, because throwing Stats at each other has become circular. What do you think? That's why we need to delve deeper. Afro-carribbean kids have far lower figures in regards education and income than other Black backgrounds. The same applies to 'White Irish', what about other 'White' backgrounds, i.e Polish, Albanian and others where there are sizeable populations in the UK. The same applies to people from Chinese, Indian and Pakistani backgrounds. Also not just their international geographical backgrounds, but also domestic geography plays a part. Disparities appear depending on what part of the country you are, as I said previously if you live in Bristol or Brighton, chances are better Education, more employment and higher incomes will be available to you compared to if you live in Burnley or Barnsley. That's been my whole point all along, that there are disparities of course, but evidence suggests that they actually have very little to do with race. We can potentially agree on the outcomes, but what drives these situations in Afro Carribbean and white working class groups, do you think? |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 7, 2021 10:14:59 GMT
That's why we need to delve deeper. Afro-carribbean kids have far lower figures in regards education and income than other Black backgrounds. The same applies to 'White Irish', what about other 'White' backgrounds, i.e Polish, Albanian and others where there are sizeable populations in the UK. The same applies to people from Chinese, Indian and Pakistani backgrounds. Also not just their international geographical backgrounds, but also domestic geography plays a part. Disparities appear depending on what part of the country you are, as I said previously if you live in Bristol or Brighton, chances are better Education, more employment and higher incomes will be available to you compared to if you live in Burnley or Barnsley. That's been my whole point all along, that there are disparities of course, but evidence suggests that they actually have very little to do with race. We can potentially agree on the outcomes, but what drives these situations in Afro Carribbean and white working class groups, do you think? The phenomenon of Life & Nature in its very existence is unequal. The World has never been a level playing field. It's not a level playing field geographically, culturally or politically. Disparities exist in everything. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 7, 2021 10:55:24 GMT
We can potentially agree on the outcomes, but what drives these situations in Afro Carribbean and white working class groups, do you think? The phenomenon of Life & Nature in its very existence is unequal. The World has never been a level playing field. It's not a level playing field geographically, culturally or politically. Disparities exist in everything. I don’t think that answers the question he was asking ... |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 7, 2021 11:04:08 GMT
The phenomenon of Life & Nature in its very existence is unequal. The World has never been a level playing field. It's not a level playing field geographically, culturally or politically. Disparities exist in everything. I don’t think that answers the question he was asking ... It answers it pretty well. As does the countless other times ive answered it. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 7, 2021 11:43:52 GMT
I don’t think that answers the question he was asking ... It answers it pretty well. As does the countless other times ive answered it. Looks like waffle to me..... no offence meant 😀 |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 7, 2021 11:53:08 GMT
It answers it pretty well. As does the countless other times ive answered it. Looks like waffle to me..... no offence meant 😀 Maybe it does comes across as waffle. But if you keep asking the same question, while refusing to acknowledge the countless times I've answered it, what do you expect. I posted a video of Thomas Sowell, I expected people not to listen to it, and suspect you haven't, he explains most things I've posted a lot more eloquently than I ever could. |
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Post by Gassy on Apr 7, 2021 12:01:25 GMT
It answers it pretty well. As does the countless other times ive answered it. Looks like waffle to me..... no offence meant 😀 The problem is that Gastafari is trying to say institutional racism doesn’t exist by proving statistics of geographies and social backgrounds. It’s like me saying ‘the colour red doesn’t exist - here’s the colour green which proves it. You see, it’s not red - therefore it’s evidence’. If he believes the video actually tackles why institutional racism doesn’t exist, instead of just going on about social backgrounds then I’ll give it a watch. But so far the impression I’ve got is that it’s all about social when in reality I think both issues exist. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 7, 2021 12:03:53 GMT
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 7, 2021 12:30:17 GMT
Yeah, 'that bloke' I've already given my opinion throughout this thread. Why do you keep asking? I agree with the majority of what he says, yes. As does the writer of that article by the looks of it. And why wouldn't you? He uses evidence and facts. I do find it quite funny when people like the guy writing the article make statements like 'Sowell is now the go-to black academic for conservative media outlets', as opposed to Lebron James, Jay-Z, Cardi B, Lewis Hamilton, Premier League Footballers "Television Presenters", or Race baiting politicians etc are the go to Black non academics for 'Left Wing' media outlets. Of course no doubt that will be classed as 'Whataboutery' again 🙂 |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 7, 2021 13:15:02 GMT
Yeah, 'that bloke' I've already given my opinion throughout this thread. Why do you keep asking? I agree with the majority of what he says, yes. As does the writer of that article by the looks of it. And why wouldn't you? He uses evidence and facts. I do find it quite funny when people like the guy writing the article make statements like 'Sowell is now the go-to black academic for conservative media outlets', as opposed to Lebron James, Jay-Z, Cardi B, Lewis Hamilton, Premier League Footballers "Television Presenters", or Race baiting politicians etc are the go to Black non academics for 'Left Wing' media outlets. Of course no doubt that will be classed as 'Whataboutery' again 🙂 Amazing as it may seem , I haven’t religiously followed and read everyone of your posts on this thread. As for wether I should agree with this Sowell bloke or not , from the little research I’ve done I’d choose to gloss over much of what he has to say. |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 7, 2021 14:03:19 GMT
Yeah, 'that bloke' I've already given my opinion throughout this thread. Why do you keep asking? I agree with the majority of what he says, yes. As does the writer of that article by the looks of it. And why wouldn't you? He uses evidence and facts. I do find it quite funny when people like the guy writing the article make statements like 'Sowell is now the go-to black academic for conservative media outlets', as opposed to Lebron James, Jay-Z, Cardi B, Lewis Hamilton, Premier League Footballers "Television Presenters", or Race baiting politicians etc are the go to Black non academics for 'Left Wing' media outlets. Of course no doubt that will be classed as 'Whataboutery' again 🙂 Amazing as it may seem , I haven’t religiously followed and read everyone of your posts on this thread. As for wether I should agree with this Sowell bloke or not , from the little research I’ve done I’d choose to gloss over much of what he has to say. That doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Because Thomas Sowell completely goes against your narratives. I am sure you would just gloss over Glenn Loury(The first African American tenured professor of economics in the history of Harvard University) and Roland Fryer(Who became the youngest African-American to be given tenure at Harvard University) too. As do a lot of people, it's a crying shame that these people aren't household names. I think we all know why they're not. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 7, 2021 14:23:36 GMT
Amazing as it may seem , I haven’t religiously followed and read everyone of your posts on this thread. As for wether I should agree with this Sowell bloke or not , from the little research I’ve done I’d choose to gloss over much of what he has to say. That doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Because Thomas Sowell completely goes against your narratives. I am sure you would just gloss over Glenn Loury(The first African American tenured professor of economics in the history of Harvard University) and Roland Fryer(Who became the youngest African-American to be given tenure at Harvard University) too. As do a lot of people, it's a crying shame that these people aren't household names. I think we all know why they're not. Oh right , what is my narrative then ? Perhaps he fits in well with yours ? Looks like it from that review I posted ..... but I wouldn’t want to prejudge you 😉 |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 7, 2021 14:42:15 GMT
That doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Because Thomas Sowell completely goes against your narratives. I am sure you would just gloss over Glenn Loury(The first African American tenured professor of economics in the history of Harvard University) and Roland Fryer(Who became the youngest African-American to be given tenure at Harvard University) too. As do a lot of people, it's a crying shame that these people aren't household names. I think we all know why they're not. Oh right , what is my narrative then ? Perhaps he fits in well with yours ? Looks like it from that review I posted ..... but I wouldn’t want to prejudge you 😉 It's clear what your narratives are. You were claiming people were racist, just because they had the forum name "Thin White Duke". Once again it's all to do with evidence and facts, most of them stare you in the face, but you refuse to acknowledge them 🙂 |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 7, 2021 14:53:02 GMT
Oh right , what is my narrative then ? Perhaps he fits in well with yours ? Looks like it from that review I posted ..... but I wouldn’t want to prejudge you 😉 It's clear what your narratives are. You were claiming people were racist, just because they had the forum name "Thin White Duke". Once again it's all to do with evidence and facts, most of them stare you in the face, but you refuse to acknowledge them 🙂 Well as the “thin white Duke “ was the racist alter ego of Bowie , so it stands up. Strange name to choose don’t you think , but hey ho each to their own . you just don’t like anyone disagreeing with your opinions, think everything you say is a fact . I don’t agree , live with it 😀👍 |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 7, 2021 15:09:14 GMT
It's clear what your narratives are. You were claiming people were racist, just because they had the forum name "Thin White Duke". Once again it's all to do with evidence and facts, most of them stare you in the face, but you refuse to acknowledge them 🙂 Well as the “thin white Duke “ was the racist alter ego of Bowie , so it stands up. Strange name to choose don’t you think , but hey ho each to their own . you just don’t like anyone disagreeing with your opinions, think everything you say is a fact . I don’t agree , live with it 😀👍 It was a theatrical persona. Just like Ziggy Stardust or The Beatles, Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band. They were concepts created by musicians, for christ sake. So no, I don't think it's strange at all. I think it's really strange that you have an issue with it. Bizarre. I have no issue with anybody disagreeing with my opinions. Although when people fail to acknowledge facts and evidence that's a different matter. I've agreed with you on certain things, I've proven to be balanced. You seem to see everything through your warped view of the World 🙂 |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 7, 2021 15:18:49 GMT
Well as the “thin white Duke “ was the racist alter ego of Bowie , so it stands up. Strange name to choose don’t you think , but hey ho each to their own . you just don’t like anyone disagreeing with your opinions, think everything you say is a fact . I don’t agree , live with it 😀👍 It was a theatrical persona. Just like Ziggy Stardust or The Beatles, Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band. They were concepts created by musicians, for christ sake. So no, I don't think it's strange at all. I think it's really strange that you have an issue with it. Bizarre. I have no issue with anybody disagreeing with my opinions. Although when people fail to acknowledge facts and evidence that's a different matter. I've agreed with you on certain things, I've proven to be balanced. You seem to see everything through your warped view of the World 🙂 Warped ... as being anti racist ? Ok 👍 The other alter egos aren’t racist are they ...... like I said it’s a strange name to chose , then go and bang on about immigrants with like minded right wing voting people on an obscure football forum . Anyway .... I don’t use that forum , very seldom read it , so I don’t really care . It’s just you & Oldgas that keep bringing it up..... perhaps it suits your agenda ? 😉 |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 7, 2021 15:33:12 GMT
It was a theatrical persona. Just like Ziggy Stardust or The Beatles, Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band. They were concepts created by musicians, for christ sake. So no, I don't think it's strange at all. I think it's really strange that you have an issue with it. Bizarre. I have no issue with anybody disagreeing with my opinions. Although when people fail to acknowledge facts and evidence that's a different matter. I've agreed with you on certain things, I've proven to be balanced. You seem to see everything through your warped view of the World 🙂 Warped ... as being anti racist ? Ok 👍 The other alter egos aren’t racist are they ...... like I said it’s a strange name to chose , then go and bang on about immigrants with like minded right wing voting people on an obscure football forum . Anyway .... I don’t use that forum , very seldom read it , so I don’t really care . It’s just you & Oldgas that keep bringing it up..... perhaps it suits your agenda ? 😉 It's not just you being "Anti-Racist". Being 'Anti-Racist" is as normal as being "Anti-Paedophilia" you don't need to shout it from the rooftops and call people racist just because of a Forum monikor, and claim personas of musicians are 'Racist'. It's pathetic. It's art for gods sake. It's your warped view on most topics on this section of the forum. Its all one sided. I don't comment on the majority of them for that reason. I only comment on this one mainly because it's something that I care about and am very much interested in. Keep being "Anti-Racist" brother. Right on ✌ |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 7, 2021 15:40:13 GMT
Warped ... as being anti racist ? Ok 👍 The other alter egos aren’t racist are they ...... like I said it’s a strange name to chose , then go and bang on about immigrants with like minded right wing voting people on an obscure football forum . Anyway .... I don’t use that forum , very seldom read it , so I don’t really care . It’s just you & Oldgas that keep bringing it up..... perhaps it suits your agenda ? 😉 It's not just you being "Anti-Racist". Being 'Anti-Racist" is as normal as being "Anti-Paedophilia" you don't need to shout it from the rooftops and call people racist just because of a Forum monikor, and claim personas of musicians are 'Racist'. It's pathetic. It's art for gods sake. It's your warped view on most topics on this section of the forum. Its all one sided. I don't comment on the majority of them for that reason. I only comment on this one mainly because it's something that I care about and am very much interested in. Keep being "Anti-Racist" brother. Right on ✌ Let’s leave it as that because you’ll just waffle on forever and you’re only interested in your own viewpoint . Have a nice day 😀 |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 7, 2021 16:26:16 GMT
It's not just you being "Anti-Racist". Being 'Anti-Racist" is as normal as being "Anti-Paedophilia" you don't need to shout it from the rooftops and call people racist just because of a Forum monikor, and claim personas of musicians are 'Racist'. It's pathetic. It's art for gods sake. It's your warped view on most topics on this section of the forum. Its all one sided. I don't comment on the majority of them for that reason. I only comment on this one mainly because it's something that I care about and am very much interested in. Keep being "Anti-Racist" brother. Right on ✌ Let’s leave it as that because you’ll just waffle on forever and you’re only interested in your own viewpoint . Have a nice day 😀 Of course Mr Anti-Racist. Like Don Quixote tilting at windmills you see racism where there is none. You cry: "listen to Black voices" then 'gloss' over any Black voice you disagree with. Yet again. Right on man ✌ |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 7, 2021 16:45:14 GMT
Let’s leave it as that because you’ll just waffle on forever and you’re only interested in your own viewpoint . Have a nice day 😀 Of course Mr Anti-Racist. Like Don Quixote tilting at windmills you see racism where there is none. You cry: "listen to Black voices" then 'gloss' over any Black voice you disagree with. Yet again. Right on man ✌ Now you’re just being a bit of a knob . |
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