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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 9:31:32 GMT
I mean, if I was wanting to protest my frustration at the death of someone the same colour as me the first thing I’d do is rob a TV and shoot the owner of a pawn shop 🙄 The killing of the suspect was obviously a total disgrace but as usual the black community does itself no favours in it’s reaction and the mayor of minnesota is quite right that it’s not even about his killing anymore, it’s just an excuse to loot and shoot. Can’t really blame Trump at that point for threatening to meet fire with fire. If you want to loot and burn sh** down then that comes with consequences. They all need to calm down and listen to matey above in Oldie’s post: get into politics and beat them up via the ballot box. Oh dear, you think it's that easy for black or oppressed people to get the equal rights and treatment they deserve? Wouldn't they have done that already if voting changed anything? Unbelievable. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 9:36:14 GMT
Thing is, the protest were initially peaceful. It only got worse after the cops were firing rubber bullets and tear gas at these protestors The Police have escalated all the trouble I mean any need for this, even if they were told to go inside their house? Hmm maybe, but let’s be fair rioting and looting follows controversy in the black community like night follows day so who would have bet against it happening from the moment he was killed regardless of what the Police did? I mean, if you are protesting peacefully then the Police escalate it fight the Police! What purpose does burning down a grocery store serve? Or killing a guy in a pawn shop? What, he won’t let you just walk out with a TV? How does that help the memory of the guy you are so watered off about? There is no moral high ground to be found here anymore. It’s like two tramps fighting to the death in the gutter over a bacon sandwich. Send in the army and start shooting. Then you’ll have the black community crying even more about Institutional brutality. “Killer Mike” or whatever his name is had it spot on. Where is this story of a pawn shop owner being killed? Also, send in the army to kill innocent people? yeah that's a good idea. |
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Post by althepirate on May 31, 2020 11:06:02 GMT
Well here is a story we can all agree on right?
White Americans some of you must learn to LOVE it's the only thing that destroys FEAR which is what I'm afraid some of you are suffering from.
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Post by peterparker on May 31, 2020 11:11:44 GMT
Thing is, the protest were initially peaceful. It only got worse after the cops were firing rubber bullets and tear gas at these protestors The Police have escalated all the trouble I mean any need for this, even if they were told to go inside their house? Hmm maybe, but let’s be fair rioting and looting follows controversy in the black community like night follows day so who would have bet against it happening from the moment he was killed regardless of what the Police did? I mean, if you are protesting peacefully then the Police escalate it fight the Police! What purpose does burning down a grocery store serve? Or killing a guy in a pawn shop? What, he won’t let you just walk out with a TV? How does that help the memory of the guy you are so watered off about? There is no moral high ground to be found here anymore. It’s like two tramps fighting to the death in the gutter over a bacon sandwich. Send in the army and start shooting. Then you’ll have the black community crying even more about Institutional brutality. “Killer Mike” or whatever his name is had it spot on. Not defending the looting or rioting, but I understand why it has happened "Send in the Army and start shooting" the thing is that is the basis of the problem. Shoot first ask questions later. Black guy shot and killedfor reaching for his ID for the police in front of his wife and kids. To trigger happy. Too many goons with a badge and a gun that think the rules dont apply to them Just because they 'enforce' them The Police started the problem and escalated it. Its all on them |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 11:45:31 GMT
I mean, if I was wanting to protest my frustration at the death of someone the same colour as me the first thing I’d do is rob a TV and shoot the owner of a pawn shop 🙄 The killing of the suspect was obviously a total disgrace but as usual the black community does itself no favours in it’s reaction and the mayor of minnesota is quite right that it’s not even about his killing anymore, it’s just an excuse to loot and shoot. Can’t really blame Trump at that point for threatening to meet fire with fire. If you want to loot and burn sh** down then that comes with consequences. They all need to calm down and listen to matey above in Oldie’s post: get into politics and beat them up via the ballot box. Oh dear, you think it's that easy for black or oppressed people to get the equal rights and treatment they deserve? Wouldn't they have done that already if voting changed anything? Unbelievable. Imagine if the suffragettes had your attitude Of course it’s not easy but plenty of oppressed people have caused political change- it takes decades of course but it has to start from somewhere and complaining about how hard it is/rioting instead of doing something positive about it only ensures that it continues and the prejudice gets worse and more ingrained. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 11:52:10 GMT
Hmm maybe, but let’s be fair rioting and looting follows controversy in the black community like night follows day so who would have bet against it happening from the moment he was killed regardless of what the Police did? I mean, if you are protesting peacefully then the Police escalate it fight the Police! What purpose does burning down a grocery store serve? Or killing a guy in a pawn shop? What, he won’t let you just walk out with a TV? How does that help the memory of the guy you are so watered off about? There is no moral high ground to be found here anymore. It’s like two tramps fighting to the death in the gutter over a bacon sandwich. Send in the army and start shooting. Then you’ll have the black community crying even more about Institutional brutality. “Killer Mike” or whatever his name is had it spot on. Where is this story of a pawn shop owner being killed? Also, send in the army to kill innocent people? yeah that's a good idea. It was mentioned in a BBC report on the riot. What would your answer be? Pick up a microphone and politely ask them to stop? What if this was Bristol and a load of wankers were burning your work premises to the ground? Would you stand by and watch and sympathise because they were only doing it to highlight the death of a comrade? Of course you wouldn’t! We get it that these things should not happen- but smashing up the city and ruining the livelihoods of innocent people, in the middle of a pandemic too, is not the answer and makes the people involved little better than the Police imo. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 11:57:22 GMT
Hmm maybe, but let’s be fair rioting and looting follows controversy in the black community like night follows day so who would have bet against it happening from the moment he was killed regardless of what the Police did? I mean, if you are protesting peacefully then the Police escalate it fight the Police! What purpose does burning down a grocery store serve? Or killing a guy in a pawn shop? What, he won’t let you just walk out with a TV? How does that help the memory of the guy you are so watered off about? There is no moral high ground to be found here anymore. It’s like two tramps fighting to the death in the gutter over a bacon sandwich. Send in the army and start shooting. Then you’ll have the black community crying even more about Institutional brutality. “Killer Mike” or whatever his name is had it spot on. Not defending the looting or rioting, but I understand why it has happened "Send in the Army and start shooting" the thing is that is the basis of the problem. Shoot first ask questions later. Black guy shot and killedfor reaching for his ID for the police in front of his wife and kids. To trigger happy. Too many goons with a badge and a gun that think the rules dont apply to them Just because they 'enforce' them The Police started the problem and escalated it. Its all on them Who wouldn’t understand why it happened? It doesn’t justify it though. Let’s be fair they have had days to riot and get it out of their system and they are still at it. At some point if they won’t voluntarily stop you have to make them stop. Asking nicely won’t work so alternative is there? Does the US government just let them keep on rioting until the whole city is razed to the ground? It will start up in other cities then because others will realise that the government is toothless. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 12:08:32 GMT
Watching the video of the sheriff in Atlanta putting down his riot gear and going on a walk with protestors, that is far more powerful an image than the burning and the looting and the shooting. There needs to be solidarity from both sides but there is precious little of that in evidence in places like Los Angeles and New York.
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Post by peterparker on May 31, 2020 12:27:05 GMT
Probably be a bit better without this prick in charge
The only Great Weapon is that
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 12:35:58 GMT
I tell you how it stops.
When police stop killing afro Americans. When they stop arresting young black kids for nothing.
When it's been seen to stop, not words, action and recognition.
I am not going to declare my source on the following, but this happened over the last ten days.
Black teenager "rolls" a Stop Sign. For those that don't know, stop signs in the USA are like traffic calming in sensitive areas, like around schools or residential areas. You are supposed to come to a complete stop. Rolling us when slow almost completely but not a dead stop.
So cops witnessed and followed the kid (17) who it turns out was driving to his grandmother's house. They pull up behind his vehicle as he gets out on granny's drive way. Then sh** happens.
They pull guns, he lies on the driveway. They shout at him telling him to get up. The kid is crying, saying if I get up you will shoot me. His gran comes out and straddles the boy and tells the cops to out their guns away. They refuse and charge at her knocking her over. They cuff the kid and take him away.
Meanwhile, 4 white lads, 16/17 are driving back from a get together.
Driving erratically and spotted by the cops they are pulled over. The cops breath test the driver. He tests positive for DUI, alcohol. What happens? The cop calls the mother of the driver....and let's them go.
sh** like this has been going on since forever.
I don't condone violence, looting or wanton destruction.
But I sure as hell understand it.
Sadly the ballot box has not worked for these folks.
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Post by althepirate on May 31, 2020 13:12:06 GMT
Watching the video of the sheriff in Atlanta putting down his riot gear and going on a walk with protestors, that is far more powerful an image than the burning and the looting and the shooting. There needs to be solidarity from both sides but there is precious little of that in evidence in places like Los Angeles and New York. I understand why you are using logic, but the police don't so how is logic going to work? It seems to me white Americans need to understand black culture. They seem to be treating black people the same as they treated American Indians. I'm sure they would like to wipe black people out too in the same way. Land of the free 😂🤣 |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 13:32:24 GMT
I tell you how it stops. When police stop killing afro Americans. When they stop arresting young black kids for nothing. When it's been seen to stop, not words, action and recognition. I am not going to declare my source on the following, but this happened over the last ten days. Black teenager "rolls" a Stop Sign. For those that don't know, stop signs in the USA are like traffic calming in sensitive areas, like around schools or residential areas. You are supposed to come to a complete stop. Rolling us when slow almost completely but not a dead stop. So cops witnessed and followed the kid (17) who it turns out was driving to his grandmother's house. They pull up behind his vehicle as he gets out on granny's drive way. Then sh** happens. They pull guns, he lies on the driveway. They shout at him telling him to get up. The kid is crying, saying if I get up you will shoot me. His gran comes out and straddles the boy and tells the cops to out their guns away. They refuse and charge at her knocking her over. They cuff the kid and take him away. Meanwhile, 4 white lads, 16/17 are driving back from a get together. Driving erratically and spotted by the cops they are pulled over. The cops breath test the driver. He tests positive for DUI, alcohol. What happens? The cop calls the mother of the driver....and let's them go. sh** like this has been going on since forever. I don't condone violence, looting or wanton destruction. But I sure as hell understand it. Sadly the ballot box has not worked for these folks. But who are the role models trying to bring about change? At the risk of getting flamed to bits here I’m going to stick my neck out and ask whether black culture really helps itself at times because it is closely aligned with the glorification of guns, drugs and violence. Does poverty in the community mean that young black men are driven to idolise “thugs” who glorify a life of crime through rap music? Or are they pre-disposed to it simply because it’s cool and it’s actually not symptomatic of the circumstances in which they grew up? It seems irrefutable to me (especially looking at the gang situation in the U.K, in London in particular, that poor black communities are beset by drug and violence problems- why aren’t there more role models coming out of these communities? Why do they give up so easily and choose crime? Basically what I’m trying to say (and I don’t know whether I am right I am simply speaking from what I see hear and experience) why is it that black communities are synonymous with gangs rather than political activism and trying to get into politics and make a difference? Why do they want to be more like Tupac than David Lammy? |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 13:44:40 GMT
I tell you how it stops. When police stop killing afro Americans. When they stop arresting young black kids for nothing. When it's been seen to stop, not words, action and recognition. I am not going to declare my source on the following, but this happened over the last ten days. Black teenager "rolls" a Stop Sign. For those that don't know, stop signs in the USA are like traffic calming in sensitive areas, like around schools or residential areas. You are supposed to come to a complete stop. Rolling us when slow almost completely but not a dead stop. So cops witnessed and followed the kid (17) who it turns out was driving to his grandmother's house. They pull up behind his vehicle as he gets out on granny's drive way. Then sh** happens. They pull guns, he lies on the driveway. They shout at him telling him to get up. The kid is crying, saying if I get up you will shoot me. His gran comes out and straddles the boy and tells the cops to out their guns away. They refuse and charge at her knocking her over. They cuff the kid and take him away. Meanwhile, 4 white lads, 16/17 are driving back from a get together. Driving erratically and spotted by the cops they are pulled over. The cops breath test the driver. He tests positive for DUI, alcohol. What happens? The cop calls the mother of the driver....and let's them go. sh** like this has been going on since forever. I don't condone violence, looting or wanton destruction. But I sure as hell understand it. Sadly the ballot box has not worked for these folks. But who are the role models trying to bring about change? At the risk of getting flamed to bits here I’m going to stick my neck out and ask whether black culture really helps itself at times because it is closely aligned with the glorification of guns, drugs and violence. Does poverty in the community mean that young black men are driven to idolise “thugs” who glorify a life of crime through rap music? Or are they pre-disposed to it simply because it’s cool and it’s actually not symptomatic of the circumstances in which they grew up? It seems irrefutable to me (especially looking at the gang situation in the U.K, in London in particular, that poor black communities are beset by drug and violence problems- why aren’t there more role models coming out of these communities? Why do they give up so easily and choose crime? Basically what I’m trying to say (and I don’t know whether I am right I am simply speaking from what I see hear and experience) why is it that black communities are synonymous with gangs rather than political activism and trying to get into politics and make a difference? Why do they want to be more like Tupac than David Lammy? Did you listen to the Rapper Killer Mike's words. He referenced the ballot box, he referenced the positive situation in Atlanta of the Mayorship of Andrew Young... You think the words of a rapper is not black culture? Be careful 365, your very gross generalisations do you no favours I think. You cannot know the role models in Afro American culture. You can only read the headlines. |
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Post by althepirate on May 31, 2020 14:05:18 GMT
Sorry 365 I worked with White and Bame groups on a daily basis for 30 years and from my experience there is no fundamental difference except cultural and religious, both of which should be understood and respected. After 30 years I don't think black people are synonymous with drugs, guns and violence. So perhaps you can explain that to me?
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 14:32:25 GMT
Sorry 365 I worked with White and Bame groups on a daily basis for 30 years and from my experience there is no fundamental difference except cultural and religious, both of which should be understood and respected. After 30 years I don't think black people are synonymous with drugs, guns and violence. So perhaps you can explain that to me? You obviously have far more positive experiences than me Al and that’s good to hear. I went to one of the worst schools in Bristol and there were a fair few really poor black role models who caused serious problems, bullied me and others etc and had generally horrendous attitudes. One of the worst was one of the girls! She tried to beat me up once and I laughed at her and she couldn’t take it because she lost serious credibility in the eyes of her peers that she couldn’t break me. It was no surprise that the main ringleaders ended up in serious trouble with the Police later in their lives. I wonder why they were like that? Of course that is school and as I’ve gone through life I’ve met great people of all skin tones. We are all unique in our own way so I am absolutely not trying to throw a blanket over people who are Afro-Caribbean and claim they are all up to no good, I am merely saying that there are a lot of black communities in the U.K. and US that have high profile issues with murder, drugs and violence- what causes people to turn to this life? Why is it the black community that is synonymous with so called “drill” music that promotes murder, violence and general nihilism. Is it wrong/untrue to say that London (and places like Nottingham and Birmingham) have a serious black on black crime problem? What makes them choose that life rather than putting down their weapons amd trying to get into politics to create change for their communities and help improve social mobility for the most disadvantaged in society? But maybe I’ve been watching too much TV, everything is tickety boo and the problems with gangs in London are just a figment of my over active imagination. Maybe I should cut down on the cheese before bed :shrug: |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 14:46:21 GMT
But who are the role models trying to bring about change? At the risk of getting flamed to bits here I’m going to stick my neck out and ask whether black culture really helps itself at times because it is closely aligned with the glorification of guns, drugs and violence. Does poverty in the community mean that young black men are driven to idolise “thugs” who glorify a life of crime through rap music? Or are they pre-disposed to it simply because it’s cool and it’s actually not symptomatic of the circumstances in which they grew up? It seems irrefutable to me (especially looking at the gang situation in the U.K, in London in particular, that poor black communities are beset by drug and violence problems- why aren’t there more role models coming out of these communities? Why do they give up so easily and choose crime? Basically what I’m trying to say (and I don’t know whether I am right I am simply speaking from what I see hear and experience) why is it that black communities are synonymous with gangs rather than political activism and trying to get into politics and make a difference? Why do they want to be more like Tupac than David Lammy? Did you listen to the Rapper Killer Mike's words. He referenced the ballot box, he referenced the positive situation in Atlanta of the Mayorship of Andrew Young... You think the words of a rapper is not black culture? Be careful 365, your very gross generalisations do you no favours I think. You cannot know the role models in Afro American culture. You can only read the headlines. I praised what he said earlier in the thread so you know I listened to his words. Specifically he said “go home, organise, strategise and plan” and it was bloody brilliant advice. But never mind me, how many of the black community who are currently rioting are going to listen to him, put down their tear gas and go home and think “how can I change society for the better, what do I have to do, how determined do I have to be?” Sadly it’s far easier to just chuck the canister of tear gas, keep complaining about your lot and leave bringing about institutional change to someone else. |
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Post by althepirate on May 31, 2020 14:48:14 GMT
Sorry 365 I worked with White and Bame groups on a daily basis for 30 years and from my experience there is no fundamental difference except cultural and religious, both of which should be understood and respected. After 30 years I don't think black people are synonymous with drugs, guns and violence. So perhaps you can explain that to me? You obviously have far more positive experiences than me Al and that’s good to hear. I went to one of the worst schools in Bristol and there were a fair few really poor black role models who caused serious problems, bullied me and others etc and had generally horrendous attitudes. One of the worst was one of the girls! She tried to beat me up once and I laughed at her and she couldn’t take it because she lost serious credibility in the eyes of her peers that she couldn’t break me. It was no surprise that the main ringleaders ended up in serious trouble with the Police later in their lives. I wonder why they were like that? Of course that is school and as I’ve gone through life I’ve met great people of all skin tones. We are all unique in our own way so I am absolutely not trying to throw a blanket over people who are Afro-Caribbean and claim they are all up to no good, I am merely saying that there are a lot of black communities in the U.K. and US that have high profile issues with murder, drugs and violence- what causes people to turn to this life? Why is it the black community that is synonymous with so called “drill” music that promotes murder, violence and general nihilism. Is it wrong/untrue to say that London (and places like Nottingham and Birmingham) have a serious black on black crime problem? What makes them choose that life rather than putting down their weapons amd trying to get into politics to create change for their communities and help improve social mobility for the most disadvantaged in society? But maybe I’ve been watching too much TV, everything is tickety boo and the problems with gangs in London are just a figment of my over active imagination. Maybe I should cut down on the cheese before bed :shrug: Well I guess we had different experiences so attitudes are different. I was just interested to know that's all. My old favourite the media have a big part to play I think. In the 50's and 60's the Krays did all those things you relate to black people, but were glorified by the media. I believe if we have an image of a group of people, that group will eventually act it out. Respect, understanding and love I reckon works much better. I always look at people as individuals not part of a group btw |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 15:03:31 GMT
You obviously have far more positive experiences than me Al and that’s good to hear. I went to one of the worst schools in Bristol and there were a fair few really poor black role models who caused serious problems, bullied me and others etc and had generally horrendous attitudes. One of the worst was one of the girls! She tried to beat me up once and I laughed at her and she couldn’t take it because she lost serious credibility in the eyes of her peers that she couldn’t break me. It was no surprise that the main ringleaders ended up in serious trouble with the Police later in their lives. I wonder why they were like that? Of course that is school and as I’ve gone through life I’ve met great people of all skin tones. We are all unique in our own way so I am absolutely not trying to throw a blanket over people who are Afro-Caribbean and claim they are all up to no good, I am merely saying that there are a lot of black communities in the U.K. and US that have high profile issues with murder, drugs and violence- what causes people to turn to this life? Why is it the black community that is synonymous with so called “drill” music that promotes murder, violence and general nihilism. Is it wrong/untrue to say that London (and places like Nottingham and Birmingham) have a serious black on black crime problem? What makes them choose that life rather than putting down their weapons amd trying to get into politics to create change for their communities and help improve social mobility for the most disadvantaged in society? But maybe I’ve been watching too much TV, everything is tickety boo and the problems with gangs in London are just a figment of my over active imagination. Maybe I should cut down on the cheese before bed :shrug: Well I guess we had different experiences so attitudes are different. I was just interested to know that's all. My old favourite the media have a big part to play I think. In the 50's and 60's the Krays did all those things you relate to black people, but were glorified by the media. I believe if we have an image of a group of people, that group will eventually act it out. Respect, understanding and love I reckon works much better. I always look at people as individuals not part of a group btw Excellent point about the Krays being almost media darlings Al- that was a different climate of violence though really, from what I understand even the Krays weren’t as indiscriminate with the violence as the modern gangs in London. Life is literally so cheap these days and it really depresses me. But I don’t want to take this thread off topic and focus on gangs in London as it’s about a man killed for no reason at all by men who are supposed to protect and serve the people in their community. Meeting violence with violence, while understandable is not the answer and if some good comes of this I hope it’s that members of the black community in St Paul’s don’t see themselves as helpless victims and strive for change through politics. |
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Post by althepirate on May 31, 2020 15:23:25 GMT
Well I guess we had different experiences so attitudes are different. I was just interested to know that's all. My old favourite the media have a big part to play I think. In the 50's and 60's the Krays did all those things you relate to black people, but were glorified by the media. I believe if we have an image of a group of people, that group will eventually act it out. Respect, understanding and love I reckon works much better. I always look at people as individuals not part of a group btw Excellent point about the Krays being almost media darlings Al- that was a different climate of violence though really, from what I understand even the Krays weren’t as indiscriminate with the violence as the modern gangs in London. Life is literally so cheap these days and it really depresses me. But I don’t want to take this thread off topic and focus on gangs in London as it’s about a man killed for no reason at all by men who are supposed to protect and serve the people in their community. Meeting violence with violence, while understandable is not the answer and if some good comes of this I hope it’s that members of the black community in St Paul’s don’t see themselves as helpless victims and strive for change through politics. St Paul's started to get better after the riots. |
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Post by trevorgas on May 31, 2020 18:31:15 GMT
Did you listen to the Rapper Killer Mike's words. He referenced the ballot box, he referenced the positive situation in Atlanta of the Mayorship of Andrew Young... You think the words of a rapper is not black culture? Be careful 365, your very gross generalisations do you no favours I think. You cannot know the role models in Afro American culture. You can only read the headlines. I praised what he said earlier in the thread so you know I listened to his words. Specifically he said “go home, organise, strategise and plan” and it was bloody brilliant advice. But never mind me, how many of the black community who are currently rioting are going to listen to him, put down their tear gas and go home and think “how can I change society for the better, what do I have to do, how determined do I have to be?” Sadly it’s far easier to just chuck the canister of tear gas, keep complaining about your lot and leave bringing about institutional change to someone else. What we have to keep in the forefront of our mind is that Black Culture is built on over 200 years of enslavery by white people,no matter how hard we try we can have no idea what carrying that weight of history feels like. To be torn from your country,transported 3000 miles to be tortured and killed at a whim,but crucially imagine you are owned by someone it beggars belief. So what today's black people see is nothing has really changed,they can still be killed with impunity,discriminated against and consigned to a lifetime of poverty,who amongst us would not fight with every thing we have to live with justice and equal rights?. |
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