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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 19:29:50 GMT
I praised what he said earlier in the thread so you know I listened to his words. Specifically he said “go home, organise, strategise and plan” and it was bloody brilliant advice. But never mind me, how many of the black community who are currently rioting are going to listen to him, put down their tear gas and go home and think “how can I change society for the better, what do I have to do, how determined do I have to be?” Sadly it’s far easier to just chuck the canister of tear gas, keep complaining about your lot and leave bringing about institutional change to someone else. What we have to keep in the forefront of our mind is that Black Culture is built on over 200 years of enslavery by white people,no matter how hard we try we can have no idea what carrying that weight of history feels like. To be torn from your country,transported 3000 miles to be tortured and killed at a whim,but crucially imagine you are owned by someone it beggars belief. So what today's black people see is nothing has really changed,they can still be killed with impunity,discriminated against and consigned to a lifetime of poverty,who amongst us would not fight with every thing we have to live with justice and equal rights?. I totally agree with this, but their choice of fight and method is up for criticism imo. Mindless violence, looting and rioting is the wrong method of response and doesn’t really solve anything. To look at it another way: there have been riots since time immemorial surrounding police officers killing black people, what have those riots ever actually achieved? Two wrongs never make a right no matter how good it might make you feel inside at the time. Mind you not that you can blame the black community entirely for the riots. It’s gone way beyond one man’s death now and is just an excuse for consequence free hedonism. I hear from people near one of these riots that Antifa have turned up in big numbers to stir the pot. An absolute stain on society that lot, hypocritical fascists. |
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Post by althepirate on May 31, 2020 19:51:26 GMT
What we have to keep in the forefront of our mind is that Black Culture is built on over 200 years of enslavery by white people,no matter how hard we try we can have no idea what carrying that weight of history feels like. To be torn from your country,transported 3000 miles to be tortured and killed at a whim,but crucially imagine you are owned by someone it beggars belief. So what today's black people see is nothing has really changed,they can still be killed with impunity,discriminated against and consigned to a lifetime of poverty,who amongst us would not fight with every thing we have to live with justice and equal rights?. I totally agree with this, but their choice of fight and method is up for criticism imo. Mindless violence, looting and rioting is the wrong method of response and doesn’t really solve anything. To look at it another way: there have been riots since time immemorial surrounding police officers killing black people, what have those riots ever actually achieved? Two wrongs never make a right no matter how good it might make you feel inside at the time. Mind you not that you can blame the black community entirely for the riots. It’s gone way beyond one man’s death now and is just an excuse for consequence free hedonism. I hear from people near one of these riots that Antifa have turned up in big numbers to stir the pot. An absolute stain on society that lot, hypocritical fascists. I thought they were left wing anti fascists? |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 20:36:32 GMT
I totally agree with this, but their choice of fight and method is up for criticism imo. Mindless violence, looting and rioting is the wrong method of response and doesn’t really solve anything. To look at it another way: there have been riots since time immemorial surrounding police officers killing black people, what have those riots ever actually achieved? Two wrongs never make a right no matter how good it might make you feel inside at the time. Mind you not that you can blame the black community entirely for the riots. It’s gone way beyond one man’s death now and is just an excuse for consequence free hedonism. I hear from people near one of these riots that Antifa have turned up in big numbers to stir the pot. An absolute stain on society that lot, hypocritical fascists. I thought they were left wing anti fascists? They claim to be left wing but their whole raison d’etre is that they believe in free speech...as long as they approve of what you say. Literally fascist. Whenever an angry mob needs to be mobilised Antifa always seem to be in the thick of it agitating. Just hooligans masquerading under left wing auspices |
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Post by althepirate on May 31, 2020 20:40:31 GMT
I thought they were left wing anti fascists? They claim to be left wing but their whole raison d’etre is that they believe in free speech...as long as they approve of what you say. Literally fascist. Whenever an angry mob needs to be mobilised Antifa always seem to be in the thick of it agitating. Just hooligans masquerading under left wing auspices Oh I see I know nothing about these groups. I've always had the opinion that politics is a circle and if you travel to the extreme left you meet the extreme right as they are the same. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 20:55:07 GMT
They claim to be left wing but their whole raison d’etre is that they believe in free speech...as long as they approve of what you say. Literally fascist. Whenever an angry mob needs to be mobilised Antifa always seem to be in the thick of it agitating. Just hooligans masquerading under left wing auspices Oh I see I know nothing about these groups. I've always had the opinion that politics is a circle and if you travel to the extreme left you meet the extreme right as they are the same. Well said Al, good analogy and I would say that is exactly what Antifa are- so left they are now extreme right. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 21:15:07 GMT
It's a very complex issue, hopefully something good will come out of the ptotests but who knows. It's a power game and those at the top usually crush those below.
There is certainly a huge lack of empathy in the world though, which the events have highlighted.
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Post by peterparker on Jun 1, 2020 6:51:02 GMT
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Post by peterparker on Jun 1, 2020 14:39:48 GMT
Can't help but water your self laughing, but at the same time they let any old f**ker walk around like this, with these types of weapons
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 16:03:49 GMT
Can't help but water your self laughing, but at the same time they let any old f**ker walk around like this, with these types of weapons That’s mad |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 7:25:45 GMT
This is what's going on people, right wing propaganda in full flow
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Post by aghast on Jun 2, 2020 7:40:51 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 2, 2020 13:08:33 GMT
Not sure who thought this was a good idea, maybe they were thinking 'all publicity is good publicity.' 🤔 "Bristol Dry Gin's advert said rioters would like its "high flammability" amid widespread protests in the US about the death of George Floyd." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-52892097 |
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Post by axegas on Jun 2, 2020 17:17:50 GMT
Ultimately you shouldn't be have to live in a western society and fear for your own life or the safety of your family and your friends and that's the reality that black people in parts of America face, it's heart breaking really.
What makes me even more angry are all of Trump's incendiary tweets, trying to pour fuel on the flames to gain favour with the conservative Deep South. The man will literally do anything for a vote, doesn't matter if it comes from a Neo-Nazi or a white supremacist, it keeps him in the White House for another term.
Designating Antifa as a terrorist outfit, the very organisation that is trying to combat hate and radicalisation, is just the lowest of the low.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 18:15:38 GMT
Has much information come out about the cop who killed him? Was it a racially motivated incident perpetrated by someone with previous history of discrimination against BAME? I wonder if it’s possible that he was just a thug in uniform who treated everyone with equal disrespect?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 18:27:44 GMT
Ultimately you shouldn't be have to live in a western society and fear for your own life or the safety of your family and your friends and that's the reality that black people in parts of America face, it's heart breaking really. What makes me even more angry are all of Trump's incendiary tweets, trying to pour fuel on the flames to gain favour with the conservative Deep South. The man will literally do anything for a vote, doesn't matter if it comes from a Neo-Nazi or a white supremacist, it keeps him in the White House for another term. Designating Antifa as a terrorist outfit, the very organisation that is trying to combat hate and radicalisation, is just the lowest of the low. I don’t think he’s too far wide of the mark personally. They cause trouble wherever they turn up because they disagree with freedom of speech and the right to peaceful protest. Hate speech is an unfortunate but necessary by-product of the right to be able to say what we think in a free country. Nobody should have the right to take that away through violence, to do so is fascist censorship. Ergo, Antifa are very much a fascist organisation. You combat hate speech by letting it’s own ridiculousness out itself and having a convincing counter argument, not by using violence to shut them up. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 18:31:44 GMT
Has much information come out about the cop who killed him? Was it a racially motivated incident perpetrated by someone with previous history of discrimination against BAME? I wonder if it’s possible that he was just a thug in uniform who treated everyone with equal disrespect? The information so far suggests that the officer who perpetrated the killing had several complaints/incidents against his record previously and also that he knew the victim as the victim would provide door security at a club at which the officer would follow on with the security from when the victim’s shift finished. I don’t understand the whole bouncer/police both providing security bit but that’s how it was reported. Seems like there could have been some bad blood between them previously. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 18:34:56 GMT
Has much information come out about the cop who killed him? Was it a racially motivated incident perpetrated by someone with previous history of discrimination against BAME? I wonder if it’s possible that he was just a thug in uniform who treated everyone with equal disrespect? The information so far suggests that the officer who perpetrated the killing had several complaints/incidents against his record previously and also that he knew the victim as the victim would provide door security at a club at which the officer would follow on with the security from when the victim’s shift finished. I don’t understand the whole bouncer/police both providing security bit but that’s how it was reported. Seems like there could have been some bad blood between them previously. Thanks. It will be interesting to see how the case unfolds and what motivated his actions. |
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Post by althepirate on Jun 2, 2020 18:49:07 GMT
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Post by axegas on Jun 2, 2020 18:59:14 GMT
Ultimately you shouldn't be have to live in a western society and fear for your own life or the safety of your family and your friends and that's the reality that black people in parts of America face, it's heart breaking really. What makes me even more angry are all of Trump's incendiary tweets, trying to pour fuel on the flames to gain favour with the conservative Deep South. The man will literally do anything for a vote, doesn't matter if it comes from a Neo-Nazi or a white supremacist, it keeps him in the White House for another term. Designating Antifa as a terrorist outfit, the very organisation that is trying to combat hate and radicalisation, is just the lowest of the low. I don’t think he’s too far wide of the mark personally. They cause trouble wherever they turn up because they disagree with freedom of speech and the right to peaceful protest. Hate speech is an unfortunate but necessary by-product of the right to be able to say what we think in a free country. Nobody should have the right to take that away through violence, to do so is fascist censorship. Ergo, Antifa are very much a fascist organisation. You combat hate speech by letting it’s own ridiculousness out itself and having a convincing counter argument, not by using violence to shut them up. Ask yourself why they cause that trouble, it isn't for the sake of it, it's to confront racism, bigotry and hatred of others in all its forms. They don't disagree with freedom of speech, they simply use theirs to stand up to racism and right wing mis-educated views that are designed to cause division within society. You're countering me now because you disagree with me, you have a right to, that's free speech right? That's simply what Antifa do every time they counter-march an EDL rally. You can't let those kind of opinions be on the streets in broad daylight uncontested. Seeing looting and destruction of public property was appalling and I don't endorse it any way but that's not what the protests were about or stood for. I sense that your argument comes from a good place, you support free speech and educated counter arguments, so do I. But be careful about who you defend because trust me Trump, Right Wing groups both sides of the pond and organisations like the EDL will do far more harm to free speech and democracy than Antifa and others that oppose them ever will. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 19:05:19 GMT
I don’t think he’s too far wide of the mark personally. They cause trouble wherever they turn up because they disagree with freedom of speech and the right to peaceful protest. Hate speech is an unfortunate but necessary by-product of the right to be able to say what we think in a free country. Nobody should have the right to take that away through violence, to do so is fascist censorship. Ergo, Antifa are very much a fascist organisation. You combat hate speech by letting it’s own ridiculousness out itself and having a convincing counter argument, not by using violence to shut them up. Ask yourself why they cause that trouble, it isn't for the sake of it, it's to confront racism, bigotry and hatred of others in all its forms. They don't disagree with freedom of speech, they simply use theirs to stand up to racism and right wing mis-educated views that are designed to cause division within society. You're countering me now because you disagree with me, you have a right to, that's free speech right? That's simply what Antifa do every time they counter-march an EDL rally. You can't let those kind of opinions be on the streets in broad daylight uncontested. Seeing looting and destruction of public property was appalling and I don't endorse it any way but that's not what the protests were about or stood for. I sense that your argument comes from a good place, you support free speech and educated counter arguments, so do I. But be careful about who you defend because trust me Trump, Right Wing groups both sides of the pond and organisations like the EDL will do far more harm to free speech and democracy than Antifa and others that oppose them ever will. This Well said |
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