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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 12:38:41 GMT
Look at the reality of ethnic minority experience when the State authorises a "crackdown" All this starts with propaganda, labelling protest groups "mobs", quoting "violence" when in fact very little physical confrontation has occured. It's standard fare, people fall for it, wind themselves up, create straw man arguments amongst themselves and the State can then say it has the support of the majority. Meanwhile, back on the farm... But that’s typical far-left-wing civil disobedience rhetoric: “it wasn’t our fault guv!” “He was already bleeding when we got here” “It was agent provocateurs!!!1” (a classic, that one) “That’s what ‘they’ *want* you to believe so that ‘they’ can take our freedoms!!1” So as a result those of us trying to be objective are steered down the path of cheering on the anarchists because their fight is against our common enemy: the state. Yeah off you go mate, I’ll hold your coat....not. I’m times like these- the middle of a f**king pandemic, I don’t care who you are or which side you are on, if you are out throwing sh** at people and vandalising when you should be at home saving lives then I hope you bloody well get your ass kicked by the full letter of the law. How many more people will have to lose their lives for these clowns? Far less than the Confused strategy of our current government.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 12:40:55 GMT
Look at the reality of ethnic minority experience when the State authorises a "crackdown" All this starts with propaganda, labelling protest groups "mobs", quoting "violence" when in fact very little physical confrontation has occured. It's standard fare, people fall for it, wind themselves up, create straw man arguments amongst themselves and the State can then say it has the support of the majority. Meanwhile, back on the farm... Oldie why do you say 'ethnic minority experience' I honestly don't understand why you say that. It's not an 'ethnic minority experience' it's everyone being treated the same experience. Even Gas and City fighting on Glos road would be banged up we ALL would be if we were violent and quite right too. People don't fall for anything. The ethnic minority experience, in their interactions with the law enforcement agencies, evidence suggests differs from that of the Caucasian experience.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 12:51:06 GMT
But that’s typical far-left-wing civil disobedience rhetoric: “it wasn’t our fault guv!” “He was already bleeding when we got here” “It was agent provocateurs!!!1” (a classic, that one) “That’s what ‘they’ *want* you to believe so that ‘they’ can take our freedoms!!1” So as a result those of us trying to be objective are steered down the path of cheering on the anarchists because their fight is against our common enemy: the state. Yeah off you go mate, I’ll hold your coat....not. I’m times like these- the middle of a f**king pandemic, I don’t care who you are or which side you are on, if you are out throwing sh** at people and vandalising when you should be at home saving lives then I hope you bloody well get your ass kicked by the full letter of the law. How many more people will have to lose their lives for these clowns? Far less than the Confused strategy of our current government. If the public don’t obey the rules then whatever strategy they had had no chance of succeeding from the start. If we were in week 2 of lockdown agitators like you would still be urging black youth to rise up and put everyone at risk so we would be screwed either way. Although the irony is that as strong as you feel about all this you don’t appear to have joined in yourself. You’re locked up in your bunker telling everyone else what they should be doing.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 12, 2020 12:52:54 GMT
Anyone on here with a motive?
From the Beeb:
A statue of a Jamaican poet, playwright and actor has been covered with what appears to be a bleach-like substance. The monument to Alfred Fagon in St Pauls, Bristol, was erected in 1987 on the first anniversary of his death. Mr Fagon was the first black person to have a statue erected in their honour in the city. It was reported on Thursday to police, who said it was being investigated as criminal damage and enquiries were continuing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 12:54:12 GMT
Far less than the Confused strategy of our current government. If the public don’t obey the rules then whatever strategy they had had no chance of succeeding from the start. If we were in week 2 of lockdown agitators like you would still be urging black youth to rise up and put everyone at risk so we would be screwed either way. Although the irony is that as strong as you feel about all this you don’t appear to have joined in yourself. You’re locked up in your bunker telling everyone else what they should be doing. What can I say 365 Straw man arguments and all that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 13:04:22 GMT
If the public don’t obey the rules then whatever strategy they had had no chance of succeeding from the start. If we were in week 2 of lockdown agitators like you would still be urging black youth to rise up and put everyone at risk so we would be screwed either way. Although the irony is that as strong as you feel about all this you don’t appear to have joined in yourself. You’re locked up in your bunker telling everyone else what they should be doing. What can I say 365 Straw man arguments and all that. Fine, give me the straw man rubbish- you’re the one trying to deflect criticism of the risk to life from the protests on to the government.
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Post by Gassy on Jun 12, 2020 13:05:02 GMT
Oldie why do you say 'ethnic minority experience' I honestly don't understand why you say that. It's not an 'ethnic minority experience' it's everyone being treated the same experience. Even Gas and City fighting on Glos road would be banged up we ALL would be if we were violent and quite right too. People don't fall for anything. The ethnic minority experience, in their interactions with the law enforcement agencies, evidence suggests differs from that of the Caucasian experience. www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-53002818/racism-in-the-uk-i-feel-like-an-alienNope, no racism here. I'm offended if anyone even suggests there is racism here. The law states we have equal access to healthcare and policing, so how can there be any racism?
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Post by althepirate on Jun 12, 2020 13:05:59 GMT
Oldie why do you say 'ethnic minority experience' I honestly don't understand why you say that. It's not an 'ethnic minority experience' it's everyone being treated the same experience. Even Gas and City fighting on Glos road would be banged up we ALL would be if we were violent and quite right too. People don't fall for anything. The ethnic minority experience, in their interactions with the law enforcement agencies, evidence suggests differs from that of the Caucasian experience. Ok let me put it another way. A black man has a bad experience it's called racism. A white man has a bad experience it isn't called racism. I presume because it's white on black and white on white. However those you treat others badly do not necessarily do it for the colour of their skin there are many reasons. Although white on black is convenient even it it's not the truth. Let me give you an example. Now close your eyes and picture being at Hillsborough in the semi final of the Cup. All Liverpool supporters are black and all Notts F fans are white. The police are white. The black Liverpool fans are being crushed against the gates and to get out are desperately climbing over the gates onto the pitch to escape for fear of losing their lives. The white police grab them and throw them back in where some of them suffocate and die. Now imagine the reaction from all the 'ethnic minority groups' and the left wing press. Racism, racism,racism. Highly likely rioting, looting and hardly a window left in Britain. The truth is it wasn't racism and that is the honest truth.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 13:16:10 GMT
What can I say 365 Straw man arguments and all that. Fine, give me the straw man rubbish- you’re the one trying to deflect criticism of the risk to life from the protests on to the government. I am not at all. But you are laying personal accusations at me.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 12, 2020 13:23:45 GMT
Every time I go past the bust of Alfred Fagon at the corner of Ashley Road, I feel sick.
This statue is a personal affront to my heritage.
I'm thinking of throwing a rope around it, pulling it down and chucking it in the harbour.
Will the police be ok with this?
Been busy?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 13:23:55 GMT
Fine, give me the straw man rubbish- you’re the one trying to deflect criticism of the risk to life from the protests on to the government. I am not at all. But you are laying personal accusations at me. I was asking what you’ve done to contribute to the protests other than encourage civil disobedience on an Internet forum (I could have been less facetious about it granted). Basically, if someone is going to advocate so strongly for civil disobedience and increasing the risk of the spread of a pandemic I would like to at least be assured that they aren’t doing so while safely insulating themselves from the fallout. In other words- “it’s okay if other people suffer because of my encouragement, but I’m alright Jack because I don’t have the conviction to put myself in the same harm.” The Germans had a term for it during the war: “Golden Pheasants”
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 13:32:45 GMT
The ethnic minority experience, in their interactions with the law enforcement agencies, evidence suggests differs from that of the Caucasian experience. Ok let me put it another way. A black man has a bad experience it's called racism. A white man has a bad experience it isn't called racism. I presume because it's white on black and white on white. However those you treat others badly do not necessarily do it for the colour of their skin there are many reasons. Although white on black is convenient even it it's not the truth. Let me give you an example. Now close your eyes and picture being at Hillsborough in the semi final of the Cup. All Liverpool supporters are black and all Notts F fans are white. The police are white. The black Liverpool fans are being crushed against the gates and to get out are desperately climbing over the gates onto the pitch to escape for fear of losing their lives. The white police grab them and throw them back in where some of them suffocate and die. Now imagine the reaction from all the 'ethnic minority groups' and the left wing press. Racism, racism,racism. Highly likely rioting, looting and hardly a window left in Britain. The truth is it wasn't racism and that is the honest truth. Quite creative Al Let's put it into reality, or perhaps some real life situations. Some of the people in this scenario (a real life one) are known to me. USA 2020 Black kid, 17, gets into his car to drive to visit his grandmother. On the way he "rolls" a stop sign. (If you don't know, stop signs are traffic calming measures in built up areas, you are supposed to come to a complete stop, he slowed to almost nothing but not a complete stop) Spotted by the cops he is followed the short distance to grannies. Pulled up on the driveway he gets out, at which point the cops pull up and jump out and pulled their guns. The kids lies on the floor, terrified. The scops scream at him to get up. Crying he shouts "no, you will shoot me" Hearing the noise granny comes out, straddles the boy and tells the cops to out their guns away. They refuse, charge her knocking her over, cuff the boy and take him away. All for rolling a stop sign. Back in my day that was a $50 fine. Meanwhile, four white lads, 16/17 are driving home after a little get together. They get stopped by the cops (I have not been told why). Suspicious the cop, quite rightly breathalyses the driver. He fails the test, he is DUI. What does the cop do? He calls his mother to collect them and leaves the decision on punishment to her. The cops leave the scene and take no further action. Can anyone spot the difference? That's a real life situation Al.
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Post by althepirate on Jun 12, 2020 13:37:26 GMT
Ok let me put it another way. A black man has a bad experience it's called racism. A white man has a bad experience it isn't called racism. I presume because it's white on black and white on white. However those you treat others badly do not necessarily do it for the colour of their skin there are many reasons. Although white on black is convenient even it it's not the truth. Let me give you an example. Now close your eyes and picture being at Hillsborough in the semi final of the Cup. All Liverpool supporters are black and all Notts F fans are white. The police are white. The black Liverpool fans are being crushed against the gates and to get out are desperately climbing over the gates onto the pitch to escape for fear of losing their lives. The white police grab them and throw them back in where some of them suffocate and die. Now imagine the reaction from all the 'ethnic minority groups' and the left wing press. Racism, racism,racism. Highly likely rioting, looting and hardly a window left in Britain. The truth is it wasn't racism and that is the honest truth. Quite creative Al Let's put it into reality, or perhaps some real life situations. Some of the people in this scenario (a real life one) are known to me. USA 2020 Black kid, 17, gets into his car to drive to visit his grandmother. On the way he "rolls" a stop sign. (If you don't know, stop signs are traffic calming measures in built up areas, you are supposed to come to a complete stop, he slowed to almost nothing but not a complete stop) Spotted by the cops he is followed the short distance to grannies. Pulled up on the driveway he gets out, at which point the cops pull up and jump out and pulled their guns. The kids lies on the floor, terrified. The scops scream at him to get up. Crying he shouts "no, you will shoot me" Hearing the noise granny comes out, straddles the boy and tells the cops to out their guns away. They refuse, charge her knocking her over, cuff the boy and take him away. All for rolling a stop sign. Back in my day that was a $50 fine. Meanwhile, four white lads, 16/17 are driving home after a little get together. They get stopped by the cops (I have not been told why). Suspicious the cop, quite rightly breathalyses the driver. He fails the test, he is DUI. What does the cop do? He calls his mother to collect them and leaves the decision on punishment to her. The cops leave the scene and take no further action. Can anyone spot the difference? That's a real life situation Al. Yes I can spot the difference. It's a real life situation in AMERICA not in Britain.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 13:41:33 GMT
I am not at all. But you are laying personal accusations at me. I was asking what you’ve done to contribute to the protests other than encourage civil disobedience on an Internet forum (I could have been less facetious about it granted). Basically, if someone is going to advocate so strongly for civil disobedience and increasing the risk of the spread of a pandemic I would like to at least be assured that they aren’t doing so while safely insulating themselves from the fallout. In other words- “it’s okay if other people suffer because of my encouragement, but I’m alright Jack because I don’t have the conviction to put myself in the same harm.” The Germans had a term for it during the war: “Golden Pheasants” For your pleasure 365 My last attendance at a demonstration was 2018, London. I was 66. My first attendance was the anti war demo ending at Grosvenor Sq in 1968. I was 16. None of that is relevant really but I am not inclined to take any form of criticism from you.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 13:46:10 GMT
Quite creative Al Let's put it into reality, or perhaps some real life situations. Some of the people in this scenario (a real life one) are known to me. USA 2020 Black kid, 17, gets into his car to drive to visit his grandmother. On the way he "rolls" a stop sign. (If you don't know, stop signs are traffic calming measures in built up areas, you are supposed to come to a complete stop, he slowed to almost nothing but not a complete stop) Spotted by the cops he is followed the short distance to grannies. Pulled up on the driveway he gets out, at which point the cops pull up and jump out and pulled their guns. The kids lies on the floor, terrified. The scops scream at him to get up. Crying he shouts "no, you will shoot me" Hearing the noise granny comes out, straddles the boy and tells the cops to out their guns away. They refuse, charge her knocking her over, cuff the boy and take him away. All for rolling a stop sign. Back in my day that was a $50 fine. Meanwhile, four white lads, 16/17 are driving home after a little get together. They get stopped by the cops (I have not been told why). Suspicious the cop, quite rightly breathalyses the driver. He fails the test, he is DUI. What does the cop do? He calls his mother to collect them and leaves the decision on punishment to her. The cops leave the scene and take no further action. Can anyone spot the difference? That's a real life situation Al. Yes I can spot the difference. It's a real life situation in AMERICA not in Britain. But you get that it's wrong, do you not feel inclined to even think "maybe the Floyd protests have grounds"?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 13:47:30 GMT
I was asking what you’ve done to contribute to the protests other than encourage civil disobedience on an Internet forum (I could have been less facetious about it granted). Basically, if someone is going to advocate so strongly for civil disobedience and increasing the risk of the spread of a pandemic I would like to at least be assured that they aren’t doing so while safely insulating themselves from the fallout. In other words- “it’s okay if other people suffer because of my encouragement, but I’m alright Jack because I don’t have the conviction to put myself in the same harm.” The Germans had a term for it during the war: “Golden Pheasants” For your pleasure 365 My last attendance at a demonstration was 2018, London. I was 66. My first attendance was the anti war demo ending at Grosvenor Sq in 1968. I was 16. None of that is relevant really but I am not inclined to take any form of criticism from you.And so you shouldn’t! You obviously have a rich history of standing up for the causes you believe in and that is admirable.....just not in the middle of a pandemic whilst happy to encourage others to take those risks. Let’s leave it there.
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Post by althepirate on Jun 12, 2020 13:58:38 GMT
Yes I can spot the difference. It's a real life situation in AMERICA not in Britain. But you get that it's wrong, do you not feel inclined to even think "maybe the Floyd protests have grounds"? Of course and this is where we agree.In fact I would be happy to join the protests until black people said this country is institutionally racist. I and I know a huge number of other people find this hugely offensive. Funnily enough I had a conversation with my daughter yesterday and she said she was sympathetic towards BLM. As we talked it became apparent that what upsets her is the racism in America, not here. We are not Americans we are not remotely like Americans so therefore we can't be judged as them. We are British and proud of the way life is here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 15:19:12 GMT
But you get that it's wrong, do you not feel inclined to even think "maybe the Floyd protests have grounds"? Of course and this is where we agree.In fact I would be happy to join the protests until black people said this country is institutionally racist. I and I know a huge number of other people find this hugely offensive. Funnily enough I had a conversation with my daughter yesterday and she said she was sympathetic towards BLM. As we talked it became apparent that what upsets her is the racism in America, not here. We are not Americans we are not remotely like Americans so therefore we can't be judged as them. We are British and proud of the way life is here. I get you Al. I really do. My view is that when a official report into the Met finds them "Institutionally Racist", when still today respected institutions still deem a need to say "We have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to tackle long-standing entrenched racial inequalities,” said David Isaac, the chairman of the EHRC. “We intend to use our statutory powers to address the loss of lives and livelihoods of people from different ethnic minorities. Only by taking focused action to tackle race inequality across Britain will we become a fair country.” The move came as the Government Equalities Office announced a review into the government’s response to inequalities in Covid-19 infection and death rates, including the impact of age, sex, occupation, obesity, comorbidities, geography, and ethnicity." Thus was the past week. Most recently the Government's own report on Covid so far failed to include the section by Prof Fenton on BAME impact. Why? Let's leave it there.
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Post by althepirate on Jun 12, 2020 15:34:39 GMT
Of course and this is where we agree.In fact I would be happy to join the protests until black people said this country is institutionally racist. I and I know a huge number of other people find this hugely offensive. Funnily enough I had a conversation with my daughter yesterday and she said she was sympathetic towards BLM. As we talked it became apparent that what upsets her is the racism in America, not here. We are not Americans we are not remotely like Americans so therefore we can't be judged as them. We are British and proud of the way life is here. I get you Al. I really do. My view is that when a official report into the Met finds them "Institutionally Racist", when still today respected institutions still deem a need to say "We have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to tackle long-standing entrenched racial inequalities,” said David Isaac, the chairman of the EHRC. “We intend to use our statutory powers to address the loss of lives and livelihoods of people from different ethnic minorities. Only by taking focused action to tackle race inequality across Britain will we become a fair country.” The move came as the Government Equalities Office announced a review into the government’s response to inequalities in Covid-19 infection and death rates, including the impact of age, sex, occupation, obesity, comorbidities, geography, and ethnicity." Thus was the past week. Most recently the Government's own report on Covid so far failed to include the section by Prof Fenton on BAME impact. Why? Let's leave it there. I actually think the word racism itself segregates people because it apparently only applies to one section of society. If they used the more broader word 'bullying' then it would apply to everyone and then all lives would be seen to matter, which it doesn't at the moment by some people.
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Post by Gassy on Jun 12, 2020 15:42:14 GMT
Just gonna leave this here.
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