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Post by stuartcampbell on Jun 12, 2020 23:02:58 GMT
Just gonna leave this here. With total respect gassy, black people are far far far more likely to die at the hands of other black people than the Police so if anything black people see *their own* lives as expendable. If the issue is specifically about the Police and institutional racism then just change the name of the movement to reflect that. Calling yourselves “black lives matter” whilst not focusing on the biggest threat to black lives just invites the kind of critical response the movement doesn’t want. Change the name and make your aims clearer. It’s an issue for me, I’ll be honest- I support wholeheartedly the aim of ending institutional racism of any description. I want equality of opportunity for all (pandemic not withstanding), but the name “black lives matter” is very problematic to me for the reasons I outlined. With all due respect 365 if you can't see the issues of black on black violence are down to decades of systemic racism, then I worry for you. But, as you seem to be uneducated on the subject I'll educate you. During the 60s it was practically impossible for someone who was black to be gifted a loan or a mortgage. In fact a study conduced in the 80s found that a high-income black family was still much less likely to receive a loan than that of a low-income white family. I think it's fairly self-explanatory why things like this and the obvious wage inequalities of the time led to whites as a demographic being generally financially better-off than blacks. This obviously leads to blacks turning to crime more as a means to get by, as a means to survive. Also the idea that there have never been any movements against black on black crime is frankly absurd, just last year there was Blue Story which raised a huge talking point on the issue, but there have been discussions and campaigns against gang violence, specifically in areas like London and Compton California, for decades. I just think it boggles the mind 365, imagine you're of a low-income black household next door to a high-income white household, if by all means you're a miracle-worker and can receive just as good an education and eventual degree, assuming you're one of a lucky few of the circumstance where you are financially capable of doing this, even after all this and all these injustices. Those with white sounding names are 3x more likely to get job interviews/offers than those with black sounding names with the SAME CV. It's complete and utter ridiculous injustices that black lives matter aims to conquer, the media has been stirring up a culture war recently. The Black Lives Matter movement doesn't demand he removal of certain TV shows, it's a deliberate act to antagonise, belittle and vilify Black Lives Matter and cause a divide, 365 do not buy into it. Black lives matter calls for an end to these issues of systemic racism, breaking the cycle of poverty frequently found in black neighbourhoods, as a direct consequence of this black on black violence will dramatically decrease. Of course there are extremists of a movement, every political movement has them, but don't buy into the media vilification by absolute scum like Mike Graham and Tommy Robinson.
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Post by baggins on Jun 13, 2020 5:26:38 GMT
Without meaning to stir things up, but can someone tear the story that I keep hearing apart that the black slaves we traded in were actually rounded up and sold by other black men? I've heard this so many times.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2020 6:37:31 GMT
Without meaning to stir things up, but can someone tear the story that I keep hearing apart that the black slaves we traded in were actually rounded up and sold by other black men? I've heard this so many times. Arabs
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Post by althepirate on Jun 13, 2020 8:06:43 GMT
Without meaning to stir things up, but can someone tear the story that I keep hearing apart that the black slaves we traded in were actually rounded up and sold by other black men? I've heard this so many times. Arabs Oldie that's a really biased answer to suit your story. They were sold to the Arabs by black African tribes. Which is hushed up in African history. Now where have I heard that before? As I continue to express, human behaviour is no different whether the skin is a different colour and to say or imply it is, is racism.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 13, 2020 8:09:42 GMT
Without meaning to stir things up, but can someone tear the story that I keep hearing apart that the black slaves we traded in were actually rounded up and sold by other black men? I've heard this so many times. Mostly, yes. Few Europeans would actually take part in the rounding up of slaves. For a start, there was the risk of disease by venturing too far inland. Several African countries have apologised for their involvement. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/18/africans-apologise-slave-tradeThe main thing to bear in mind though is that we are talking about the Atlantic Slave Trade, not slavery per se. It was the industrialisation of it during the 18th Century where the vast majority of this happened. Not only that, their treatment once in the hands of the traders and owners, on board ship and then in the Americas is 'our' legacy. To give some figures, "Probably no more than a few hundred thousand Africans were taken to the Americas before 1600. The largest numbers of slaves were taken to the Americas during the 18th century, when, according to historians’ estimates, nearly three-fifths of the total volume of the transatlantic slave trade took place. An estimated 10 to 15 percent of the captives died on their way to the coast. Historians estimate that between 15 and 25 percent of the African slaves bound for the Americas died aboard slave ships." www.britannica.com/topic/transatlantic-slave-trade
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2020 9:13:26 GMT
Oldie that's a really biased answer to suit your story. They were sold to the Arabs by black African tribes. Which is hushed up in African history. Now where have I heard that before? As I continue to express, human behaviour is no different whether the skin is a different colour and to say or imply it is, is racism. Al For your edification. www.dw.com/en/east-africas-forgotten-slave-trade/a-50126759And I can assure you racism to this day is alive and kicking in the Middle East. Let's be perfectly frank, because racism is not confined to one race or skin colour (something I have asserted on this thread continuously) is no excuse for us or any less forgiveable. Quite the opposite if we aspire to a higher ideas, which some of us do.
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 13, 2020 9:23:21 GMT
Oldie that's a really biased answer to suit your story. They were sold to the Arabs by black African tribes. Which is hushed up in African history. Now where have I heard that before? As I continue to express, human behaviour is no different whether the skin is a different colour and to say or imply it is, is racism. Al For your edification. www.dw.com/en/east-africas-forgotten-slave-trade/a-50126759And I can assure you racism to this day is alive and kicking in the Middle East. Let's be perfectly frank, because racism is not confined to one race or skin colour (something I have asserted on this thread continuously) is no excuse for us or any less forgiveable. Quite the opposite if we aspire to a higher ideas, which some of us do. Agree After the Abolition of slavery in the 1830s it was the Royal Navy West Africa Squadron that eventually put an end to the transatlantic trade,they then moved on to East Africa to stop the trade into what was then the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East. Les is correct this issue has many layers and complexities not least of which is the human trafficking currently taking place.
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Post by matealotblue on Jun 13, 2020 9:26:40 GMT
Oldie that's a really biased answer to suit your story. They were sold to the Arabs by black African tribes. Which is hushed up in African history. Now where have I heard that before? As I continue to express, human behaviour is no different whether the skin is a different colour and to say or imply it is, is racism. Al For your edification. www.dw.com/en/east-africas-forgotten-slave-trade/a-50126759And I can assure you racism to this day is alive and kicking in the Middle East. Let's be perfectly frank, because racism is not confined to one race or skin colour (something I have asserted on this thread continuously) is no excuse for us or any less forgiveable. Quite the opposite if we aspire to a higher ideas, which some of us do. However, not necessarily the reasoned view of some on the BLM side as there was one of them at a recent rally holding up a placard that said “The UK invented racism”.
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 13, 2020 9:32:37 GMT
Al For your edification. www.dw.com/en/east-africas-forgotten-slave-trade/a-50126759And I can assure you racism to this day is alive and kicking in the Middle East. Let's be perfectly frank, because racism is not confined to one race or skin colour (something I have asserted on this thread continuously) is no excuse for us or any less forgiveable. Quite the opposite if we aspire to a higher ideas, which some of us do. However, not necessarily the reasoned view of some on the BLM side as there was one of them at a recent rally holding up a placard that said “The UK invented racism”. Yep I saw that he was the young lad mistakenly named as the person who was trying to set fire to flags on the Cenotaph,which was a women . I just thought he was a bit naive .
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Post by althepirate on Jun 13, 2020 9:36:40 GMT
Oldie that's a really biased answer to suit your story. They were sold to the Arabs by black African tribes. Which is hushed up in African history. Now where have I heard that before? As I continue to express, human behaviour is no different whether the skin is a different colour and to say or imply it is, is racism. Al For your edification. www.dw.com/en/east-africas-forgotten-slave-trade/a-50126759And I can assure you racism to this day is alive and kicking in the Middle East. Let's be perfectly frank, because racism is not confined to one race or skin colour (something I have asserted on this thread continuously) is no excuse for us or any less forgiveable. Quite the opposite if we aspire to a higher ideas, which some of us do. I'm glad you agree that people of all skin colours behave the same whether it's slave trading, drug dealing, violence we are all the same. BLM doesn't reflect that and gives a totally biased image which understandably a huge amount of white people resent. It will increase racism just like many other black organisations have done. Meanwhile those people who are not black or white extremists are happily living and working together. I only talk about this country because I haven't lived anywhere else. We are not Americans, we do not think or act like Americans. We are British, we welcome and enjoy diversity.
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Post by inee on Jun 13, 2020 9:57:43 GMT
Al For your edification. www.dw.com/en/east-africas-forgotten-slave-trade/a-50126759And I can assure you racism to this day is alive and kicking in the Middle East. Let's be perfectly frank, because racism is not confined to one race or skin colour (something I have asserted on this thread continuously) is no excuse for us or any less forgiveable. Quite the opposite if we aspire to a higher ideas, which some of us do. However, not necessarily the reasoned view of some on the BLM side as there was one of them at a recent rally holding up a placard that said “The UK invented racism”. Where to start
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Post by scoobydoogas on Jun 13, 2020 10:14:04 GMT
However, not necessarily the reasoned view of some on the BLM side as there was one of them at a recent rally holding up a placard that said “The UK invented racism”. Yep I saw that he was the young lad mistakenly named as the person who was trying to set fire to flags on the Cenotaph,which was a women . I just thought he was a bit naive . Naïve, probably. Dangerous, definitely. It's this kind of misinformation that touches the raw feelings that some people have and a group of demonstrators can get whipped up into a violent mob. It only takes someone to stand up and start spouting such false words and it starts spreading among those that want it to be true and then it becomes fact in the minds of some (reminds me of Gaschat rumours). Then one thing leads to another and shop windows start getting smashed.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jun 13, 2020 10:28:15 GMT
Al For your edification. www.dw.com/en/east-africas-forgotten-slave-trade/a-50126759And I can assure you racism to this day is alive and kicking in the Middle East. Let's be perfectly frank, because racism is not confined to one race or skin colour (something I have asserted on this thread continuously) is no excuse for us or any less forgiveable. Quite the opposite if we aspire to a higher ideas, which some of us do. I'm glad you agree that people of all skin colours behave the same whether it's slave trading, drug dealing, violence we are all the same. BLM doesn't reflect that and gives a totally biased image which understandably a huge amount of white people resent. It will increase racism just like many other black organisations have done. Meanwhile those people who are not black or white extremists are happily living and working together. I only talk about this country because I haven't lived anywhere else. We are not Americans, we do not think or act like Americans. We are British, we welcome and enjoy diversity. I don't actually think racism is that bad in this country and the whole thing has been blown out of proportion because of that idiot Trump's reaction to the George Floyd incident, and then our government's lack of communication on the subject.
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Post by inee on Jun 13, 2020 10:43:39 GMT
Without meaning to stir things up, but can someone tear the story that I keep hearing apart that the black slaves we traded in were actually rounded up and sold by other black men? I've heard this so many times. Hi Bags It's been a problem since humans walked the earth, to start a bit back, the abolition of slaves in the uk was actually the second time slavery was banned, The people in mainly England at the time were taken by the Norse/Irish and sold into slavery in Ireland, this was then banned, so the Norse/Irish carried on taking people for some 20 years after the ban on slavery, you can look up the timelines on the net, it led to an invasion of Ireland by one of our kings ,cant remember which one. Also it was the norm back then and for sometime after to make slaves of people captured during battles,(Religion still plays a part in the taking of slaves). Initially tribe chiefs would swop or sell slaves for guns and alcohol or cash, then everyone decided it would be easier to kidnap the slaves themselves, more profit, and set up slaving companies in Africa. There are several parts of the story that is hidden but available on the net. Slaves that died on the ships were thrown into the sea, the sailors were treated a bit better as if they dies they had a short service before being hoofed into the sea, the French however used to keep the bodies in the hold of the ship(weird). as for the abolition of slavery in the uk, a little known Bristolian called Hannah more and others constantly badgered William Wilberforce to do something to end the slave trade the upshot was it was abolished in the uk. A freeman(name escapes me published a book which had a bearing on the abolitionist case. Wilberforce( read up on it there's too much to put in a forum post) also had a hand in sierra leone. A slave ship had either sunk or run aground on uk soil, under the law at the time they could not be taken into slavery as they were legally freemen, some did get stolen and became slave, this had a direct impact on some as a town called Freetown in sierra leone, which as it's name suggests was a place where freemen or escaped slaves could take sanctuary. Some people also forget that press ganging was also slavery. Bags that should give you enough info to look into the subject online it's a vast complex subject. You could also look into slavery in the us, slaves were owned buy presidents, there were also black freemen and women who owned slaves, in the us. A related piece of info is on shows from the uk you occasionally see small black jockey ornaments on peoples gardens etc, these were used to inform runaway slaves that the owner of the house was part of the undergound railway which helped slave to get away.
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Post by althepirate on Jun 13, 2020 10:43:45 GMT
I'm glad you agree that people of all skin colours behave the same whether it's slave trading, drug dealing, violence we are all the same. BLM doesn't reflect that and gives a totally biased image which understandably a huge amount of white people resent. It will increase racism just like many other black organisations have done. Meanwhile those people who are not black or white extremists are happily living and working together. I only talk about this country because I haven't lived anywhere else. We are not Americans, we do not think or act like Americans. We are British, we welcome and enjoy diversity. I don't actually think racism is that bad in this country and the whole thing has been blown out of proportion because of that idiot Trump's reaction to the George Floyd incident, and then our government's lack of communication on the subject. Yes GGMI it's the overspill from America, it's not Britain. Beware the biased extremists causing trouble.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2020 10:59:09 GMT
Al For your edification. www.dw.com/en/east-africas-forgotten-slave-trade/a-50126759And I can assure you racism to this day is alive and kicking in the Middle East. Let's be perfectly frank, because racism is not confined to one race or skin colour (something I have asserted on this thread continuously) is no excuse for us or any less forgiveable. Quite the opposite if we aspire to a higher ideas, which some of us do. Agree After the Abolition of slavery in the 1830s it was the Royal Navy West Africa Squadron that eventually put an end to the transatlantic trade,they then moved on to East Africa to stop the trade into what was then the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East. Les is correct this issue has many layers and complexities not least of which is the human trafficking currently taking place. Careful Clive You are associating yourself with a "far left radical" 😂😂😂😂
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2020 11:02:16 GMT
However, not necessarily the reasoned view of some on the BLM side as there was one of them at a recent rally holding up a placard that said “The UK invented racism”. Yep I saw that he was the young lad mistakenly named as the person who was trying to set fire to flags on the Cenotaph,which was a women . I just thought he was a bit naive . Yes indeed.
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Post by althepirate on Jun 13, 2020 11:03:04 GMT
Agree After the Abolition of slavery in the 1830s it was the Royal Navy West Africa Squadron that eventually put an end to the transatlantic trade,they then moved on to East Africa to stop the trade into what was then the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East. Les is correct this issue has many layers and complexities not least of which is the human trafficking currently taking place. Careful Clive You are associating yourself with a "far left radical" 😂😂😂😂 He will never do that Oldie he's far too rational, logical and intelligent!
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Post by althepirate on Jun 13, 2020 11:10:24 GMT
Lol...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2020 11:18:21 GMT
Yep I saw that he was the young lad mistakenly named as the person who was trying to set fire to flags on the Cenotaph,which was a women . I just thought he was a bit naive . Naïve, probably. Dangerous, definitely. It's this kind of misinformation that touches the raw feelings that some people have and a group of demonstrators can get whipped up into a violent mob. It only takes someone to stand up and start spouting such false words and it starts spreading among those that want it to be true and then it becomes fact in the minds of some (reminds me of Gaschat rumours). Then one thing leads to another and shop windows start getting smashed. I actually think that is an insult to the people leading the BLM movement generally. Of course every "movement" has its membership that demands "action" but if you listen more carefully to what it's leadership are saying, they are demanding not much more than you and I might expect in an "equal" society. I give as an example one of the organisers of the BLM protest in Bristol. (I wish I could remember her name!) Asked if she approved of the toppling of the Colston statue she said, very clearly, that she had not set out to that, she understood why and the motivation, but if she had total control she would have preferred a rewording of the plaque. So, Farage like, it's easy to quote the press (which interestingly is never referenced as a source of information) in its most sensationalist claims, when the truth is far more nuanced.
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