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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2020 11:40:52 GMT
I am sure creditors won't feel that way if they are left with losses. Wael is our creditor. Come on AF. Better than that. Wael has funded the club (after this summers debt to equity swap) through equity. But if we are burning cash at £1m plus a year that negative cash flow, that has to be funded, month to month. So unless Wael's resources are unlimited, or revenue increases rapidly, the sh** will hit the fan at some point. 2+2=4 whichever way you play it.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 16, 2020 11:55:37 GMT
Come on AF. Better than that. Wael has funded the club (after this summers debt to equity swap) through equity. But if we are burning cash at £1m plus a year that negative cash flow, that has to be funded, month to month. So unless Wael's resources are unlimited, or revenue increases rapidly, the sh** will hit the fan at some point. 2+2=4 whichever way you play it. Sure, but that's just the normal lower league football is unsustainable and everyone is spending above their means just to stand still argument, which is legit and concerning. But istm that's not the same as the specific circumstances we have at the moment, which are probably unique, and really no one knows the best way of dealing with it, and how it will actually affect the coming season. We may have played a blinder, we may have really f**ked up, but istm that is separate from (but, of course, related to) the ongoing woes of league football finances.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2020 12:04:26 GMT
Come on AF. Better than that. Wael has funded the club (after this summers debt to equity swap) through equity. But if we are burning cash at £1m plus a year that negative cash flow, that has to be funded, month to month. So unless Wael's resources are unlimited, or revenue increases rapidly, the sh** will hit the fan at some point. 2+2=4 whichever way you play it. Sure, but that's just the normal lower league football is unsustainable and everyone is spending above their means just to stand still argument, which is legit and concerning. But istm that's not the same as the specific circumstances we have at the moment, which are probably unique, and really no one knows the best way of dealing with it, and how it will actually affect the coming season. We may have played a blinder, we may have really f**ked up, but istm that is separate from (but, of course, related to) the ongoing woes of league football finances. You don't believe that fans have a role in expectation management and sustainability? Or is it a case of close the eyes,fingers in the ear, declare "love" for the club and sing Good night Irene whilst begging daddy to spend more of his money to keep us entertained? Is that it?
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 16, 2020 12:05:33 GMT
Come on AF. Better than that. Wael has funded the club (after this summers debt to equity swap) through equity. But if we are burning cash at £1m plus a year that negative cash flow, that has to be funded, month to month. So unless Wael's resources are unlimited, or revenue increases rapidly, the sh** will hit the fan at some point. 2+2=4 whichever way you play it. Unless Wael is a total idiot he'll now full well he can't let the sh** hit the fan again, he must surely have some medium/long term plan fro Rovers, as I can't see him just deciding as he's inherited £xm form his father he's going to spend it all on an English L1 club until it's all gone. After all he's not just your typical lottery winner, who's suddenly come into a large sum of money and has no idea how to control his spending before it's too late. Although we've no real idea how wealthy Wael's father was, if he was at one time a major shareholder in a large Jordanian bank he could have been far wealthy than any of us realise.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2020 12:15:19 GMT
Come on AF. Better than that. Wael has funded the club (after this summers debt to equity swap) through equity. But if we are burning cash at £1m plus a year that negative cash flow, that has to be funded, month to month. So unless Wael's resources are unlimited, or revenue increases rapidly, the sh** will hit the fan at some point. 2+2=4 whichever way you play it. Unless Wael is a total idiot he'll now full well he can't let the sh** hit the fan again, he must surely have some medium/long term plan fro Rovers, as I can't see him just deciding as he's inherited £xm form his father he's going to spend it all on an English L1 club until it's all gone. After all he's not just your typical lottery winner, who's suddenly come into a large sum of money and has no idea how to control his spending before it's too late. Although we've no real idea how wealthy Wael's father was, if he was at one time a major shareholder in a large Jordanian bank he could have been far wealthy than any of us realise. Cloud cuckoo land topper. Personally I can only see what he has done as a part of a plan to morph his investment into a larger real estate development which has the potential to provide his exit route. In the meantime the football club could have lost another £5M just to standstill. He may well be able to cover that, but it had better be a good real estate development. After the exit, another £5M gets watered up against the wall. And fans sit in their nest, beaks open saying "more more"
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Post by baggins on Aug 16, 2020 12:39:05 GMT
Unless Wael is a total idiot he'll now full well he can't let the sh** hit the fan again, he must surely have some medium/long term plan fro Rovers, as I can't see him just deciding as he's inherited £xm form his father he's going to spend it all on an English L1 club until it's all gone. After all he's not just your typical lottery winner, who's suddenly come into a large sum of money and has no idea how to control his spending before it's too late. Although we've no real idea how wealthy Wael's father was, if he was at one time a major shareholder in a large Jordanian bank he could have been far wealthy than any of us realise. Cloud cuckoo land topper. Personally I can only see what he has done as a part of a plan to morph his investment into a larger real estate development which has the potential to provide his exit route. In the meantime the football club could have lost another £5M just to standstill. He may well be able to cover that, but it had better be a good real estate development. After the exit, another £5M gets watered up against the wall. And fans sit in their nest, beaks open saying "more more" Really? I don't think he wants an exit route, I think he wants to be at the helm of a slowly progressing club. If he really wanted cash return he sure as hell wouldn't have bought a football club.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 16, 2020 12:39:51 GMT
Sure, but that's just the normal lower league football is unsustainable and everyone is spending above their means just to stand still argument, which is legit and concerning. But istm that's not the same as the specific circumstances we have at the moment, which are probably unique, and really no one knows the best way of dealing with it, and how it will actually affect the coming season. We may have played a blinder, we may have really f**ked up, but istm that is separate from (but, of course, related to) the ongoing woes of league football finances. You don't believe that fans have a role in expectation management and sustainability? Or is it a case of close the eyes,fingers in the ear, declare "love" for the club and sing Good night Irene whilst begging daddy to spend more of his money to keep us entertained? Is that it? No, that's not it. You just invented all that. I've never asked Wael (directly or indirectly) to spend a single pound on this club. I've never asked for a signing. I've never complained about a signing.
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Post by Charlton Hayes Gas on Aug 16, 2020 12:44:06 GMT
Garner and Starnes have confirmed we’re still within last seasons budget with all the contract releases. Add on top the record shirt sales and record revenue year, all seems plausible to me.
In true gaschat fashion though Il tow the line.
‘I’ve heard word that not all is as it seems, now I cannot divulge my sources, but just wait and see if I’m wrong, wait and see....‘
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 16, 2020 12:46:31 GMT
‘I’ve heard word that not all is as it seems, now I cannot divulge my sources, but just wait and see if I’m wrong, wait and see....‘ I just read this on the internet.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2020 12:50:13 GMT
Cloud cuckoo land topper. Personally I can only see what he has done as a part of a plan to morph his investment into a larger real estate development which has the potential to provide his exit route. In the meantime the football club could have lost another £5M just to standstill. He may well be able to cover that, but it had better be a good real estate development. After the exit, another £5M gets watered up against the wall. And fans sit in their nest, beaks open saying "more more" Really? I don't think he wants an exit route, I think he wants to be at the helm of a slowly progressing club. If he really wanted cash return he sure as hell wouldn't have bought a football club. That would be a story Baggs. But nobody goes in planning to lose money, everyone has an exit plan unless it's just a rich boys hobby, Chelsea or Man City style. I just think he is in deep.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2020 12:52:19 GMT
You don't believe that fans have a role in expectation management and sustainability? Or is it a case of close the eyes,fingers in the ear, declare "love" for the club and sing Good night Irene whilst begging daddy to spend more of his money to keep us entertained? Is that it? No, that's not it. You just invented all that. I've never asked Wael (directly or indirectly) to spend a single pound on this club. I've never asked for a signing. I've never complained about a signing. It was a question AF not an assertion, and not necessarily aimed at you.
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Post by baggins on Aug 16, 2020 13:02:14 GMT
Really? I don't think he wants an exit route, I think he wants to be at the helm of a slowly progressing club. If he really wanted cash return he sure as hell wouldn't have bought a football club. That would be a story Baggs. But nobody goes in planning to lose money, everyone has an exit plan unless it's just a rich boys hobby, Chelsea or Man City style. I just think he is in deep. Can't imagine many Championship and below owners make money from owning a Football Club. Look south of the river as an example. Think he'll get his money back?
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Post by rememberhalifax on Aug 16, 2020 13:19:16 GMT
Just have to trust Wael and co i suppose, don't think there stupid and won't do anything to jeopardise the clubs future, we have been proactive instead of reactive for a change and avoided the panic signings of the past, case of damned if you do ,damned if you don't i reckon.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 16, 2020 15:09:42 GMT
Unless Wael is a total idiot he'll now full well he can't let the sh** hit the fan again, he must surely have some medium/long term plan fro Rovers, as I can't see him just deciding as he's inherited £xm form his father he's going to spend it all on an English L1 club until it's all gone. After all he's not just your typical lottery winner, who's suddenly come into a large sum of money and has no idea how to control his spending before it's too late. Although we've no real idea how wealthy Wael's father was, if he was at one time a major shareholder in a large Jordanian bank he could have been far wealthy than any of us realise. Cloud cuckoo land topper. Personally I can only see what he has done as a part of a plan to morph his investment into a larger real estate development which has the potential to provide his exit route. In the meantime the football club could have lost another £5M just to standstill. He may well be able to cover that, but it had better be a good real estate development. After the exit, another £5M gets watered up against the wall. And fans sit in their nest, beaks open saying "more more" If Wael just wanted an exit route tyen why spend a single penny at Almondsbury, and why not just blame CV19 and cut the wage bill? I'm not living in cloud cuckoo land as I can see Wael's trying to build a decent football club, I guess that upsets the anti Wael group of supporters, not sure what they find so offensive about somebody investing in the club instead of seemingly milking like past locally based owners.
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Post by Hudson1883 on Aug 16, 2020 15:42:04 GMT
Cloud cuckoo land topper. Personally I can only see what he has done as a part of a plan to morph his investment into a larger real estate development which has the potential to provide his exit route. In the meantime the football club could have lost another £5M just to standstill. He may well be able to cover that, but it had better be a good real estate development. After the exit, another £5M gets watered up against the wall. And fans sit in their nest, beaks open saying "more more" If Wael just wanted an exit route tyen why spend a single penny at Almondsbury, and why not just blame CV19 and cut the wage bill? I'm not living in cloud cuckoo land as I can see Wael's trying to build a decent football club, I guess that upsets the anti Wael group of supporters, not sure what they find so offensive about somebody investing in the club instead of seemingly milking like past locally based owners. Possibly those that are of the SC persuasion. Frustrated that Rovers are slowly turning into a professional outfit on all levels with a bright future ahead. When they’d rather we were still playing Third Division football, ran like a pub outfit, with only themselves & their self entitled ‘old boys club buddies’ in attendance.
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Post by bodies on Aug 16, 2020 15:43:23 GMT
My question is that this season we will fall within the salary cap as new signings only carry £1,300 a week. But what about next season when we have to carry their full wages... £1300pw is the L2 average under the wage cap. Just over £2000 is the L1 average. obviously longer contracts are attractive to players but the downside is - more chances of another Bennett getting good money but not cutting the mustard. Becomes a drain on resources.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2020 15:45:02 GMT
Cloud cuckoo land topper. Personally I can only see what he has done as a part of a plan to morph his investment into a larger real estate development which has the potential to provide his exit route. In the meantime the football club could have lost another £5M just to standstill. He may well be able to cover that, but it had better be a good real estate development. After the exit, another £5M gets watered up against the wall. And fans sit in their nest, beaks open saying "more more" If Wael just wanted an exit route tyen why spend a single penny at Almondsbury, and why not just blame CV19 and cut the wage bill? I'm not living in cloud cuckoo land as I can see Wael's trying to build a decent football club, I guess that upsets the anti Wael group of supporters, not sure what they find so offensive about somebody investing in the club instead of seemingly milking like past locally based owners. Not anti Wael at all My real point, speculating on Wael's intention is just that, speculation, us despite all the positive moves this summer I detect no hint of sustainability both in the way the club is run nor in fans expectations. Hope I am wrong
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 16, 2020 16:07:11 GMT
Ok it’s a lazy Sunday afternoon so I’ll ask the question. What does sustainability mean to you? What does it mean in today’s football? Is it... matching expenditure to income each year so that you balance the books? Is it... making a small loss that you know you can cover each year? Is it... setting a budget in June trying to keep to it but not worrying if you go outside it?
I’d suggest that sustainability for me means the first, matching expenditure to income. But if you have a very rich person who says that they will cover the loss does that make it sustainable because he’s basically saying “I will cover the losses for the next few years” so making it sustainable? I’d like to think you have a plan to: increase your income from match day football, increase the income streams from non-football areas, to use your resources (ground, training facilities, players) to generate more income on a day-to-day basis so that your income over a period of time grows and is not so heavily dependent upon match day income. I’m sure there are other areas, commercial sales, advertising, etc that I’ve not thought of which could really push up your income. I’d also suggest if the salary cap works it will be easier to calculate your player expenditure than it has ever been.
So what does sustainability mean in reality?
UTG!
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Post by allgasandgaiters on Aug 16, 2020 16:23:58 GMT
My question is that this season we will fall within the salary cap as new signings only carry £1,300 a week. But what about next season when we have to carry their full wages... £1300pw is the L2 average under the wage cap. Just over £2000 is the L1 average. obviously longer contracts are attractive to players but the downside is - more chances of another Bennett getting good money but not cutting the mustard. Becomes a drain on resources. It depends on how many players a club has - there's a good article by Rod Liddle (yeah - I know...) in today's Sunday Times about this. He says the average in L1 will be £1700pw (£2.5m pa in total per club) and the current average wage is now over £4000 (although that does sound a bit high - Sunderland? Ipswich?) so there is a massive realignment coming as contracts renew over the next couple of years. I agree with Bodies about the disproportionate harm that long term contracts of crap signings will do in the future.
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Post by Somersetgas on Aug 16, 2020 16:40:19 GMT
Garner and Starnes have confirmed we’re still within last seasons budget with all the contract releases. Add on top the record shirt sales and record revenue year, all seems plausible to me. In true gaschat fashion though Il tow the line. ‘I’ve heard word that not all is as it seems, now I cannot divulge my sources, but just wait and see if I’m wrong, wait and see....‘ Are you Gasincider in disguise ?
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