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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Sept 5, 2020 20:17:46 GMT
He most likely is; Menayese was the player who dropped the most in quality when Garner took over in my opinion. Solid but never personally rated him and I think Baldwin is at least on a similar level. Had a poor game today but that doesn’t make him a bad player. One game. Agreed.
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Post by warehamgas on Sept 5, 2020 20:20:36 GMT
But I think reading this thread is more depressing than watching us today. Can’t disagree with some of this but there were some positives. ...Zain W, Sam N, looked comfortable on the ball and ZW was always looking for that forward ball. They will be very important players for us. Ipswich didn’t get too close to ZW, he was able to do most of our best stuff but he had no forward players to look up for. ...Cameron H tried his best and he never hid, he looked for the ball, made himself available. I hope he wasn’t taken off because he was the easiest and wouldn’t rock the boat. He has bundles of energy. He’ll get better. ... I don’t agree with all the stuff about Baldwin, I thought he looked the most comfortable CH on the ball and was able to play it out better than the other two. Not his best game but he’ll get better. ... Van Stappershof had a very good game, for a number two he has improved and was confident and made several very good saves. ... Ehmer started off poorly but he did get better. ... Upson when he came on made a difference as did Ayunga. Someone said at halftime we’d look better with those two on. They were right, we did look better. ... when Ayunga came on, although he didn’t play much better than the others it gave them something to worry about. We looked a better shape and we were more of a threat. ... Little looked comfortable on the ball and you could see what he was trying to do even if it didn’t always work. ... and despite being outplayed for long periods we did have 3 good chances and that Nicholson one in the first half would have made it 1-1 and things could have been very different. And goals change matches but not today!
But ... Our wing backs were caught out of position too often and left the CHs exposed esp in the first half. ... Grant didn’t protect the defence and I’m glad Ogogo is still there although BG probably has a different opinion than me. ... JML looked lost in the first half, he wasn’t used to his best. ... At times we were bullied off the ball.
The biggest worry is that BG seems able to do the coaching stuff but results are making it hard for many to be totally confident about his ability as a manage. I’ll keep supporting him but I hope he gives me some reason soon. Today wasn’t good but there were some positives, not many, but some.
UTG!
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Post by socrates on Sept 5, 2020 20:22:20 GMT
Today the football in the final third was very poor and I think that is what made the defence look so bad. Everyone in the defence are good players but when we constantly lose possession in the Ipswich half our wing backs were too far forward to defend and were put on the back foot. One of the centre backs had to come out and cover for the wing back leaving a large gap in the middle. I'm very suprised Ipswich didn't score more. Kilgour is a fabulous player, the managers job is to get the best out of each player not the worst. When Ayunga came on we rarely used him to hold the ball up so it came back once again. I was wondering today if Garner is an Ian Atkins, a scout rather than a coach/ manager, we shall see. We have really good players with high technical ability but today I lost some confidence that Ben can employ the right tactics. We pass it around our own half and lose possession in theirs. We are going to get punished by most teams playing like that. We know we don't have a goal scorer but today we created very little and I'm not sure if JCH had played whether it would have been any different. I'm only writing about today and not projecting it onto the future. Exactly as I saw it. We offered very little out wide and were easy to attack against because their fullbacks had all the time in the world because our forwards were all quite central. They controlled the wide areas and constantly played the Vaughn Jones ball down the line curling in to the channels and our set up was massively exposed. Lambert for all his critics got his tactics bang on today and Garner couldn’t see it when it clearly wasn’t working and failed to change it. I wAtched with an Ipswich mate and we couldn’t believe that Garner didn’t change formation at half time. I told him Ipswich had played well he said Ipswich didn’t have to Rovers made it easy. He was right.
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Post by althepirate on Sept 5, 2020 20:30:38 GMT
Today the football in the final third was very poor and I think that is what made the defence look so bad. Everyone in the defence are good players but when we constantly lose possession in the Ipswich half our wing backs were too far forward to defend and were put on the back foot. One of the centre backs had to come out and cover for the wing back leaving a large gap in the middle. I'm very suprised Ipswich didn't score more. Kilgour is a fabulous player, the managers job is to get the best out of each player not the worst. When Ayunga came on we rarely used him to hold the ball up so it came back once again. I was wondering today if Garner is an Ian Atkins, a scout rather than a coach/ manager, we shall see. We have really good players with high technical ability but today I lost some confidence that Ben can employ the right tactics. We pass it around our own half and lose possession in theirs. We are going to get punished by most teams playing like that. We know we don't have a goal scorer but today we created very little and I'm not sure if JCH had played whether it would have been any different. I'm only writing about today and not projecting it onto the future. Exactly as I saw it. We offered very little out wide and were easy to attack against because their fullbacks had all the time in the world because our forwards were all quite central. They controlled the wide areas and constantly played the Vaughn Jones ball down the line curling in to the channels and our set up was massively exposed. Lambert for all his critics got his tactics bang on today and Garner couldn’t see it when it clearly wasn’t working and failed to change it. I wAtched with an Ipswich mate and we couldn’t believe that Garner didn’t change formation at half time. I told him Ipswich had played well he said Ipswich didn’t have to Rovers made it easy. He was right. Yes Sam we don't hold the ball long enough to get the wing backs up far enough we lost possession and they are left in no man's land making our whole defence look dreadful. It reminds me when we sold Rickie the same thing happened. The danger is if we don't deal with it these young players will lose confidence, the essence of performance. As you say he didn't change it and then doesn't tell the truth in the post match interview.
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Post by farmygas on Sept 5, 2020 20:32:23 GMT
Every game is a friendly until we sign a 20 goal a season striker to replace JCH who has obviously been going for months. Amazing how we've started this season stronger in every section of the pitch but have let this happen.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Sept 5, 2020 20:36:16 GMT
A worrying point for me is his post match interview. There were quite a few very poor performances like that under coughlan but after the game he acknowledged how poor it had been and showed fire and desire to make it change. And by the next match it usually did. That post match interview from garner was pathetic. He has tried to save face there and not held his hands up and said that was a very very poor performance. I hope for his sake behind the scenes he's ripped them a new one because that was as poor a first game of the season performance I've seen from us. "Through the first two-thirds of the pitch I don’t think there was too much in the game." Which "two-thirds" were those, defensive, midfield or attacking? "We created four or five really good chances and didn’t take them" Really?
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Sept 5, 2020 20:39:16 GMT
A worrying point for me is his post match interview. There were quite a few very poor performances like that under coughlan but after the game he acknowledged how poor it had been and showed fire and desire to make it change. And by the next match it usually did. That post match interview from garner was pathetic. He has tried to save face there and not held his hands up and said that was a very very poor performance. I hope for his sake behind the scenes he's ripped them a new one because that was as poor a first game of the season performance I've seen from us. "Through the first two-thirds of the pitch I don’t think there was too much in the game." Which "two-thirds" were those, defensive, midfield or attacking? "We created four or five really good chances and didn’t take them" Really? He talks so much rubbish. It reminds me of how refreshing it was when DC came in and even GC was quite honest in his interviews to be fair. These interviews are like the Paul Buckle days.
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Post by althepirate on Sept 5, 2020 20:45:13 GMT
Every game is a friendly until we sign a 20 goal a season striker to replace JCH who has obviously been going for months. Amazing how we've started this season stronger in every section of the pitch but have let this happen. We should be on Mastermind, Favourite subject ..... 'Failing to replace a striker 1956 - 2020'
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Post by althepirate on Sept 5, 2020 20:47:31 GMT
"Through the first two-thirds of the pitch I don’t think there was too much in the game." Which "two-thirds" were those, defensive, midfield or attacking? "We created four or five really good chances and didn’t take them" Really? He talks so much rubbish. It reminds me of how refreshing it was when DC came in and even GC was quite honest in his interviews to be fair. These interviews are like the Paul Buckle days. Yes he reminded me of Buckle. Don't underestimate us Mr Garner there will only be one winner.
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Post by bluebiro on Sept 5, 2020 20:53:13 GMT
We are fortunate to have a manager that turned down every offer of managing a club in the world yet chose ours.
Yep the kitman always has a excuse up just sleeve
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Post by lastminutewinner on Sept 5, 2020 20:56:52 GMT
A worrying point for me is his post match interview. There were quite a few very poor performances like that under coughlan but after the game he acknowledged how poor it had been and showed fire and desire to make it change. And by the next match it usually did. That post match interview from garner was pathetic. He has tried to save face there and not held his hands up and said that was a very very poor performance. I hope for his sake behind the scenes he's ripped them a new one because that was as poor a first game of the season performance I've seen from us. "Through the first two-thirds of the pitch I don’t think there was too much in the game." Which "two-thirds" were those, defensive, midfield or attacking? "We created four or five really good chances and didn’t take them" Really? He is clutching at more straws than a masturbating scarecrow
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2020 21:04:31 GMT
But I think reading this thread is more depressing than watching us today. Can’t disagree with some of this but there were some positives. ...Zain W, Sam N, looked comfortable on the ball and ZW was always looking for that forward ball. They will be very important players for us. Ipswich didn’t get too close to ZW, he was able to do most of our best stuff but he had no forward players to look up for. ...Cameron H tried his best and he never hid, he looked for the ball, made himself available. I hope he wasn’t taken off because he was the easiest and wouldn’t rock the boat. He has bundles of energy. He’ll get better. ... I don’t agree with all the stuff about Baldwin, I thought he looked the most comfortable CH on the ball and was able to play it out better than the other two. Not his best game but he’ll get better. ... Van Stappershof had a very good game, for a number two he has improved and was confident and made several very good saves. ... Ehmer started off poorly but he did get better. ... Upson when he came on made a difference as did Ayunga. Someone said at halftime we’d look better with those two on. They were right, we did look better. ... when Ayunga came on, although he didn’t play much better than the others it gave them something to worry about. We looked a better shape and we were more of a threat. ... Little looked comfortable on the ball and you could see what he was trying to do even if it didn’t always work. ... and despite being outplayed for long periods we did have 3 good chances and that Nicholson one in the first half would have made it 1-1 and things could have been very different. And goals change matches but not today! But ... Our wing backs were caught out of position too often and left the CHs exposed esp in the first half. ... Grant didn’t protect the defence and I’m glad Ogogo is still there although BG probably has a different opinion than me. ... JML looked lost in the first half, he wasn’t used to his best. ... At times we were bullied off the ball. The biggest worry is that BG seems able to do the coaching stuff but results are making it hard for many to be totally confident about his ability as a manage. I’ll keep supporting him but I hope he gives me some reason soon. Today wasn’t good but there were some positives, not many, but some. UTG! How does BG seem to be able to do the coaching stuff? Surely we wouldn’t concede such abject goals if our issue was simply that we couldn’t score because BG’s hands were tied in the transfer market? Our issues today seemed very much to do with coaching and that we simply don’t know how to defend the basics. Maybe we made a few decent passes so that’s a feather in Garner’s cap...but that doesn’t amount to a hill of beans when your side concedes three. We were totally outclassed today it seems so it’s hard to argue that at least the coaching isn’t a problem. It very much is, we just played a couple of friendlies that hid our deficiencies.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Sept 5, 2020 21:04:44 GMT
Scary thing is, they beat us comfortably without their first choice right back, 2 top scorers from last season and best player in Flynn Downes!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2020 21:05:18 GMT
"Through the first two-thirds of the pitch I don’t think there was too much in the game." Which "two-thirds" were those, defensive, midfield or attacking? "We created four or five really good chances and didn’t take them" Really? He is clutching at more straws than a masturbating scarecrow Dam brilliant mate, the first Rovers related thing that has brightened my day.
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Post by LJG on Sept 5, 2020 21:05:56 GMT
Never understood this "write off the first ten games of the season" business. There are only 46 league games a season. Ten games is more than a fifth of that. Over 20%. 30 possible points out of only 138 available. If you consider 50ish points is what is needed to stay up that's 60% of what you need, chucked away. If you consider 75ish points is the mark to get in the play offs that's 40% of what you need just binned. Football teams should be ready to play football at the start of the season not when half of your hoped for points tally has drifted by. You don’t keep your manager through the summer let him bring his players in and sack him after one cup game. I wouldn’t have minded if he’d been sacked before the transfer window opened but as he wasn’t and has been allowed to build his squad it obviously makes sense to see what he can do with that squad and one game isn’t enough, ten is plenty and if we’ve only won a couple or less than that then that combined with last seasons form would be grounds for the sack. I think that’s reasonable. I'm not suggesting the sack after one cup game - that also ignores his terrible form last season which doesn't just include one cup game but anyway, ignoring that flaw in the logic - ten games is a significant portion of the season. Like I said above, if those ten games net virtually nothing then you have 108 points left to play for so you're in a position whereby you need to have a 50% win rate for the rest of the season just to stay up and a 75% win rate for the rest of the season to get in the play offs (assuming 50 and 75 points needed respectively). With that said it's perfectly legitimate to be watered off at poor performances from day one. In fact I'd go so far as to say that bad starts to the season have been a significant factor in Rovers having done basically nothing for 30 years. When Holloway and Twentyman were appointed in 96 Ollie made the same point in one of his first interviews as manager. I figure he knows what he's talking about.
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Post by socrates on Sept 5, 2020 21:22:46 GMT
You don’t keep your manager through the summer let him bring his players in and sack him after one cup game. I wouldn’t have minded if he’d been sacked before the transfer window opened but as he wasn’t and has been allowed to build his squad it obviously makes sense to see what he can do with that squad and one game isn’t enough, ten is plenty and if we’ve only won a couple or less than that then that combined with last seasons form would be grounds for the sack. I think that’s reasonable. I'm not suggesting the sack after one cup game - that also ignores his terrible form last season which doesn't just include one cup game but anyway, ignoring that flaw in the logic - ten games is a significant portion of the season. Like I said above, if those ten games net virtually nothing then you have 108 points left to play for so you're in a position whereby you need to have a 50% win rate for the rest of the season just to stay up and a 75% win rate for the rest of the season to get in the play offs (assuming 50 and 75 points needed respectively). With that said it's perfectly legitimate to be watered off at poor performances from day one. In fact I'd go so far as to say that bad starts to the season have been a significant factor in Rovers having done basically nothing for 30 years. When Holloway and Twentyman were appointed in 96 Ollie made the same point in one of his first interviews as manager. I figure he knows what he's talking about. I think we both agree with each other but are approaching it from different angles. Like I said he was given pre season / signings / input on training ground and yeah sack after one league cup game - stupid. I agree with you about him last season - water poor although he had a massive family problem which from what I gather was a serious illness. If I was club owner I probably would have sacked him once the season was concluded to be honest but then I probably wouldn’t have appointed him as manager either, first team coach / tracksuit manager with a more experienced head alongside him to do the management side of things I think would have been a much better option. Having said all that we are where we are and whatever we feel about him we’re going to have him probably for at least another 10 games at least no matter how bad it is so we just have to wait and see.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2020 21:34:38 GMT
A worrying point for me is his post match interview. There were quite a few very poor performances like that under coughlan but after the game he acknowledged how poor it had been and showed fire and desire to make it change. And by the next match it usually did. That post match interview from garner was pathetic. He has tried to save face there and not held his hands up and said that was a very very poor performance. I hope for his sake behind the scenes he's ripped them a new one because that was as poor a first game of the season performance I've seen from us. Yeah I'd agree, surely he knows that the difference between Ipswich and us was more than just a few misses on our part, they were a lot better than us today. Can't blame him from protecting his players but was expecting him to at least admit we were very poor. That’s why I struggle to like him as a man- he wouldn’t cop for anything last season and it’s the same now. He’s either watching a different game or full of excuses. He’d probably get a lot more goodwill from the fanbase if he fronted up and just said “that was bloody awful, I’m the coach, the buck stops with me and I’ll sort it out”. If and when he does get sacked he will no doubt walk away thinking he was hard done by because we never took our chances. I know you need a pretty robust ego in football but come on...
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Post by yaz on Sept 5, 2020 21:37:40 GMT
"Through the first two-thirds of the pitch I don’t think there was too much in the game." Which "two-thirds" were those, defensive, midfield or attacking? "We created four or five really good chances and didn’t take them" Really? He is clutching at more straws than a masturbating scarecrow Not sure about this but hate to disagree. Why don’t we have a straw poll? Result may be too scary but better than a scarecrow? Does this scarecrow rotate; we find out when we see the lineup in our next 2 matches? Up The Pole? UTG
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Post by socrates on Sept 5, 2020 21:41:08 GMT
Yeah I'd agree, surely he knows that the difference between Ipswich and us was more than just a few misses on our part, they were a lot better than us today. Can't blame him from protecting his players but was expecting him to at least admit we were very poor. That’s why I struggle to like him as a man- he wouldn’t cop for anything last season and it’s the same now. He’s either watching a different game or full of excuses. He’d probably get a lot more goodwill from the fanbase if he fronted up and just said “that was bloody awful, I’m the coach, the buck stops with me and I’ll sort it out”. If and when he does get sacked he will no doubt walk away thinking he was hard done by because we never took our chances. I know you need a pretty robust ego in football but come on... Hard to argue with that. Ipswich could have won 6-1 today they had that many clear cut chances and we had one where we should have scored but the keeper made a decent save. Anyone who came away from that game thinking that if we’d taken our chances we could have got something from it is living in cloud cuckoo land. Outplayed all over the pitch and our keeper was our best player in a 3-0 defeat says it all. He was the only positive from today and I hold my hands up I didn’t rate him from what I’ve seen before but today he was decent hopefully we do have a good reserve keeper based on today we have.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2020 21:43:34 GMT
You don’t keep your manager through the summer let him bring his players in and sack him after one cup game. I wouldn’t have minded if he’d been sacked before the transfer window opened but as he wasn’t and has been allowed to build his squad it obviously makes sense to see what he can do with that squad and one game isn’t enough, ten is plenty and if we’ve only won a couple or less than that then that combined with last seasons form would be grounds for the sack. I think that’s reasonable. I'm not suggesting the sack after one cup game - that also ignores his terrible form last season which doesn't just include one cup game but anyway, ignoring that flaw in the logic - ten games is a significant portion of the season. Like I said above, if those ten games net virtually nothing then you have 108 points left to play for so you're in a position whereby you need to have a 50% win rate for the rest of the season just to stay up and a 75% win rate for the rest of the season to get in the play offs (assuming 50 and 75 points needed respectively). With that said it's perfectly legitimate to be watered off at poor performances from day one. In fact I'd go so far as to say that bad starts to the season have been a significant factor in Rovers having done basically nothing for 30 years. When Holloway and Twentyman were appointed in 96 Ollie made the same point in one of his first interviews as manager. I figure he knows what he's talking about. Us Rovers fans have been brought up on teams needing 10 games to gel. In my Rovers supporting life I can only recall DC turning around a bad start through consistency and practice, every other time it turned out we didn’t need to gel at all, we just had sh** players or a sh** manager. Usually both. Chances are it’s Occam’s Razor again.
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