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Post by heartofgas on Sept 27, 2020 15:02:37 GMT
Yesterday I wanted him gone 100% but today I’m 50%/50% out / what your saying. In business you dont just fire someone; you tell them that their performance is poor and place them under close supervision. You give them a limited target that demonstrates basic competence that they should be able to meet without any excuses for external factors (ie new team, limited budget etc etc). BG performance has been dire and so he should be placed under close supervision under the stipulation that if he is unable to demonstrate basic competence over a fixed time he is gone. FAIK Wael may be doing this as I speak. If he isnt, he should be. But he cant make it public as that is morale destroying and gives other teams an edge. If BG gets fired in the heat of the moment then he could see himself as a noble victim whose strategies would one day have paid untold dividends. Do it this way then he only has himself to blame. I guess a football manager is a bit different in that relegation is a one way street for a period of time, which for us would see a significant drop in revenue. In a business you can get a new person in and be immediately as productive as before. Therefore as a football manager you get far less tolerance for under performing (and in Garners case he's never performed) . Football is a harsh business with little sentiment. Fans complain players/ managers aren’t loyal when they are successful and want rid as soon as a player or manager is rubbish ( I admit i am guilty of this). I would be amazed if Wael hasn’t set some short term target and wanted feedback from Ben on how he is going to improve things. Theres only so long we can be at the bottom of the table and win-less before Wael takes action. Its going to be hard for Wael as by doing that he’s admitting he made a mistake employing him in the first place
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Post by bluebiro on Sept 27, 2020 15:03:01 GMT
His next job?highways agency on cone collecting
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 27, 2020 15:03:43 GMT
Thing is, WSA, you may be right with general play not too bad.... that's your opinion. I notice you didn't say 'good' though? But is general play not too bad enough? Enough to win games? Enough to make for a promotion push? Enough to stave off relegation? Enough to satisfy you, perhaps? We all have different criteria on how we view matches, but I would hope we can all agree that relegation is a no no in this climate for our club? If you don't, we are truly worlds apart. If you do agree, what after 20+ matches (most I've seen live at the venue) do you think suggests we won't get relegated with BG as it is now? I'm genuinely dying to know... ? Its absolutely not going to get us anywhere other than a relegation scrap so to answer your question no it doesn't satisfy me at all and you're 100% right that in the current climate relegation would be a disaster. If we carry on as we are we will be bottom 4 of that I have no doubt, my hope (and if I'm honest that's beginning to be all it is) was that with his own group of players BG would somehow turn it round. I think you'd agree that we've had a tough start fixtures wise and whilst I dont think we should ever go into any league game not believing we can win next week represents a chance to play one of the lesser fancied teams at home. That's the reason I think it's a must win for him, if we get turned over again I really cant see any way back and that's said with real disappointment. That's a lovely post and you deserve a big hug for that.. 🤗 In the cut and thrust of 3rd division football, unless there's serious change now, or very soon, BG and his team are consigned to throwing away everything we have worked so very hard to get. And then some won't be so lovely.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 15:11:33 GMT
Yesterday I wanted him gone 100% but today I’m 50%/50% out / what your saying. In business you dont just fire someone; you tell them that their performance is poor and place them under close supervision. You give them a limited target that demonstrates basic competence that they should be able to meet without any excuses for external factors (ie new team, limited budget etc etc). BG performance has been dire and so he should be placed under close supervision under the stipulation that if he is unable to demonstrate basic competence over a fixed time he is gone. FAIK Wael may be doing this as I speak. If he isnt, he should be. But he cant make it public as that is morale destroying and gives other teams an edge. If BG gets fired in the heat of the moment then he could see himself as a noble victim whose strategies would one day have paid untold dividends. Do it this way then he only has himself to blame. With respect, what does it matter to the club how BG views being fired? His strategies have over seen a monumental fall from grace so far. They may have worked in the future but what state would the club be in by the time they did? Bottom half of league 2? Relegated to the conference? I’ve no doubt that when he is relieved of his duties his delusions of grandeur will re-write history with him as the victim but the rest of us can point to objective reality, his win ratio, as justification enough that he is simply just a crap manager.
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Post by socrates on Sept 27, 2020 15:11:48 GMT
As BG is clearly a well regarded coach, and even seems to be liked by the players, I would personally be happy to see him remain at the club as a coach or even as an Assistant Manager. His results since he took over though have clearly pointed to the fact that he is not a manager. I reckon he could do a good job behind the scenes, but we need a manager to take charge of the tactics and motivation of the players. The fact that they're apparently looking great in training but it's not translating to match days can only be a failure of the management, surely? Individual mistakes can still creep in, but we have been dreadful in both boxes for the majority of his games as manager, which cannot be attributed solely to isolated individual mistakes. Does he strike you that he would be happy with that? He comes across like he has a bit of an ego so I don’t think a demotion would be acceptable. Anyone with a shred of pride and love of the club would resign out of embarrassment after seeing the complete capitulation from 4th to bottom, I can only think he still wants paying off for his “efforts”. The question is: where will he go once he leaves? Who will give him another managerial gig? Will he be able to go back to coaching? Will premiership youths be able to respect him when they look up his achievements and see that he has one of the worst managerial records in football league history? Looking at his career it’s clear that he could walk in to plenty of championship clubs and probably a couple of Premier league clubs as a first team coach. The idea that he would step sown and become a training ground coach for us is crazy talk anyway.
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Post by TAGas on Sept 27, 2020 15:12:46 GMT
In business you dont just fire someone; you tell them that their performance is poor and place them under close supervision. You give them a limited target that demonstrates basic competence that they should be able to meet without any excuses for external factors (ie new team, limited budget etc etc). BG performance has been dire and so he should be placed under close supervision under the stipulation that if he is unable to demonstrate basic competence over a fixed time he is gone. FAIK Wael may be doing this as I speak. If he isnt, he should be. But he cant make it public as that is morale destroying and gives other teams an edge. If BG gets fired in the heat of the moment then he could see himself as a noble victim whose strategies would one day have paid untold dividends. Do it this way then he only has himself to blame. I guess a football manager is a bit different in that relegation is a one way street for a period of time, which for us would see a significant drop in revenue. In a business you can get a new person in and be immediately as productive as before. Therefore as a football manager you get far less tolerance for under performing (and in Garners case he's never performed) . Football is a harsh business with little sentiment. Fans complain players/ managers aren’t loyal when they are successful and want rid as soon as a player or manager is rubbish ( I admit i am guilty of this). I would be amazed if Wael hasn’t set some short term target and wanted feedback from Ben on how he is going to improve things. Theres only so long we can be at the bottom of the table and win-less before Wael takes action. Its going to be hard for Wael as by doing that he’s admitting he made a mistake employing him in the first placeIt's either he sacks Ben and admits he made a mistake in hiring him or get relegated to league 2.
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Post by socrates on Sept 27, 2020 15:25:07 GMT
In business you dont just fire someone; you tell them that their performance is poor and place them under close supervision. You give them a limited target that demonstrates basic competence that they should be able to meet without any excuses for external factors (ie new team, limited budget etc etc). BG performance has been dire and so he should be placed under close supervision under the stipulation that if he is unable to demonstrate basic competence over a fixed time he is gone. FAIK Wael may be doing this as I speak. If he isnt, he should be. But he cant make it public as that is morale destroying and gives other teams an edge. If BG gets fired in the heat of the moment then he could see himself as a noble victim whose strategies would one day have paid untold dividends. Do it this way then he only has himself to blame. With respect, what does it matter to the club how BG views being fired? His strategies have over seen a monumental fall from grace so far. They may have worked in the future but what state would the club be in by the time they did? Bottom half of league 2? Relegated to the conference? I’ve no doubt that when he is relieved of his duties his delusions of grandeur will re-write history with him as the victim but the rest of us can point to objective reality, his win ratio, as justification enough that he is simply just a crap manager. I think Wael will wait at least until 5 o’clock next Saturday after we’ve played one of the divisions lesser squads before he sacks Garner or not and today in the clearer light of day I think the supporters should too. Don’t get me wrong up until this very minute I can’t stand Garner and his performances and Post match interviews have been dreadful. We have however had a ridiculously tough first three games with his new squad and we’ve got one point , perhaps more than we might have had under DC or Coughlan and more than many of us thought we’d have. If we can win against Northampton then that would give the squad and their manager and coaches a lift. Garner is on borrowed time but in the clear light of day I think sacking after 3 tough games with his new squad would be jumping the gun. If we play poorly and lose v Northampton then yeah get rid. If we win and don’t follow that up with at least another couple of wins by the end of October then yeah get rid. But sack him tomorrow ? No. Too soon considering Wael has given him the transfer window to build his squad and played 3 very tough opponents. He does need more time but I’m talking a week - month . Nothing more nothing less.
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Post by olskooltoteender on Sept 27, 2020 15:27:57 GMT
Thing is, WSA, you may be right with general play not too bad.... that's your opinion. I notice you didn't say 'good' though? But is general play not too bad enough? Enough to win games? Enough to make for a promotion push? Enough to stave off relegation? Enough to satisfy you, perhaps? We all have different criteria on how we view matches, but I would hope we can all agree that relegation is a no no in this climate for our club? If you don't, we are truly worlds apart. If you do agree, what after 20+ matches (most I've seen live at the venue) do you think suggests we won't get relegated with BG as it is now? I'm genuinely dying to know... ? Its absolutely not going to get us anywhere other than a relegation scrap so to answer your question no it doesn't satisfy me at all and you're 100% right that in the current climate relegation would be a disaster. If we carry on as we are we will be bottom 4 of that I have no doubt, my hope (and if I'm honest that's beginning to be all it is) was that with his own group of players BG would somehow turn it round. I think you'd agree that we've had a tough start fixtures wise and whilst I dont think we should ever go into any league game not believing we can win next week represents a chance to play one of the lesser fancied teams at home. That's the reason I think it's a must win for him, if we get turned over again I really cant see any way back and that's said with real disappointment. Problem is though, in my opinion, too many people are far too Willing to say “Oh well, we were always going to lose the first 3 games / the first 3 were really tough fixtures “ etc, but you are right in that we shouldn’t ever EXPECT to lose against another L1 team and we should at the very, very least take the fight to them. That’s what I expect as a lifelong Rovers fan, effort, commitment & passion, not the dull, insipid tippy-tappy we’re dishing up at the moment - I don’t even particularly care if we don’t win every game, but we should at least try to! On paper we have a good squad, but they’re just not being played/managed effectively. And that is purely down to Garner.
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Post by dragonfly on Sept 27, 2020 15:30:56 GMT
The extended highlights show just what a calamitous/pushover/disorganised/weak excuse of a team we have become. It makes me feel ashamed to be associated with that rabble and the great pretender Manager that has assembled it. The commentator captured it correctly "Bristol Rovers are being opened up at will". For the love of Jesus, go and go now! I cannot even bear to type his name.
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Post by neogas on Sept 27, 2020 15:34:59 GMT
Yesterday I wanted him gone 100% but today I’m 50%/50% out / what your saying. In business you dont just fire someone; you tell them that their performance is poor and place them under close supervision. You give them a limited target that demonstrates basic competence that they should be able to meet without any excuses for external factors (ie new team, limited budget etc etc). BG performance has been dire and so he should be placed under close supervision under the stipulation that if he is unable to demonstrate basic competence over a fixed time he is gone. FAIK Wael may be doing this as I speak. If he isnt, he should be. But he cant make it public as that is morale destroying and gives other teams an edge. If BG gets fired in the heat of the moment then he could see himself as a noble victim whose strategies would one day have paid untold dividends. Do it this way then he only has himself to blame. The closest role in business would be the sales manager/leader. If you don’t hit the revenue you normally get replaced. You have to deploy, coach and mentor the team to get results whilst enhancing the business offering, its profile and customer loyalty/experience. In football management replace revenue with points.........
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Post by TAGas on Sept 27, 2020 15:37:10 GMT
Once again people saying "but we didnt expect to win the first 3 games" Yes that's fair enough enough, but it's the manner in which we loss these games. If we lost 4-3 yesterday and played well I would feel so annoyed. Our top goal scorer is our left back and we managed 1 shot on target yesterday. Also BG post match interviews dont help matters.
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Post by bluebiro on Sept 27, 2020 15:50:14 GMT
That s the problem with the disciples they see into the future.they knew we wouldnt get promoted last season even though we were third.knew you dont win against certain teams because they once graced a cup final in 1912 or finished 6th two years later in div1. You lose to teams because they have a crowd bigger then ours. You have a right for some strange reason to beat Fleetwood and wycombe and it's only those games that count if we win.club deserves never to suceed with parts of a fanbase like that who are scared of a bright light.
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Post by Jomo on Sept 27, 2020 15:51:53 GMT
That s the problem with the disciples they see into the future.they knew we wouldnt get promoted last season even though we were third.knew you dont win against certain teams because they once graced a cup final in 1912 or finished 6th two years later in div1. You lose to teams because they have a crowd bigger then ours. You have a right for some strange reason to beat Fleetwood and wycombe and it's only those games that count if we win.club deserves never to suceed with parts of a fanbase like that who are scared of a bright light. You always treat these things like they're so binary. Always black or white with you isn't it? Is it not allowed to have some balanced opinion based on realism?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 15:54:36 GMT
Does he strike you that he would be happy with that? He comes across like he has a bit of an ego so I don’t think a demotion would be acceptable. Anyone with a shred of pride and love of the club would resign out of embarrassment after seeing the complete capitulation from 4th to bottom, I can only think he still wants paying off for his “efforts”. The question is: where will he go once he leaves? Who will give him another managerial gig? Will he be able to go back to coaching? Will premiership youths be able to respect him when they look up his achievements and see that he has one of the worst managerial records in football league history? Looking at his career it’s clear that he could walk in to plenty of championship clubs and probably a couple of Premier league clubs as a first team coach. The idea that he would step sown and become a training ground coach for us is crazy talk anyway. Do you think his abject failure at management creates issues of respect for him though? Imagine cocky young premiership youths on big wages, thinking they’ve made it. What respect would they have for a man who never played the game and who struggled to win games despite numerous attempts as a manager?
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Post by Qatar Gas on Sept 27, 2020 16:00:56 GMT
Yet the guy across the river never managed before not his team taken them top of the championship..basically you can do the job or you cant Dont need 2 sodding seasons just to get a shot on target.get rid now and tonight . Guy will kill this club if he has another 6 games They recruited from within. Something we have done a few times recently and it’s turned out quite well.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 27, 2020 16:04:59 GMT
Looking at his career it’s clear that he could walk in to plenty of championship clubs and probably a couple of Premier league clubs as a first team coach. The idea that he would step sown and become a training ground coach for us is crazy talk anyway. Do you think his abject failure at management creates issues of respect for him though? Imagine cocky young premiership youths on big wages, thinking they’ve made it. What respect would they have for a man who never played the game and who struggled to win games despite numerous attempts as a manager? In that case why join the club this week? If McCormick is one of those players then I'd show him his failure to tackle the goalscorer for Donny's third goal, hopefully that would make him be a bit less "cocky"!! All the players joining in the summer talked highly of BG rather than just joining Rovers. Not sure why we didn't employ a defensive coach to replace Coughlin in the summer, is that BG's own choice or just lack of money for one.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 27, 2020 16:06:14 GMT
Its absolutely not going to get us anywhere other than a relegation scrap so to answer your question no it doesn't satisfy me at all and you're 100% right that in the current climate relegation would be a disaster. If we carry on as we are we will be bottom 4 of that I have no doubt, my hope (and if I'm honest that's beginning to be all it is) was that with his own group of players BG would somehow turn it round. I think you'd agree that we've had a tough start fixtures wise and whilst I dont think we should ever go into any league game not believing we can win next week represents a chance to play one of the lesser fancied teams at home. That's the reason I think it's a must win for him, if we get turned over again I really cant see any way back and that's said with real disappointment. Problem is though, in my opinion, too many people are far too Willing to say “Oh well, we were always going to lose the first 3 games / the first 3 were really tough fixtures “ etc, but you are right in that we shouldn’t ever EXPECT to lose against another L1 team and we should at the very, very least take the fight to them. That’s what I expect as a lifelong Rovers fan, effort, commitment & passion, not the dull, insipid tippy-tappy we’re dishing up at the moment - I don’t even particularly care if we don’t win every game, but we should at least try to! On paper we have a good squad, but they’re just not being played/managed effectively. And that is purely down to Garner. Good post. Why do so many oh well write off the first 3 matches? We are Bristol Rovers. We have pride and passion. We are in this league just like every other club, on merit. We also beat 2 out of the 3 first three teams last season... All I can take out of it is the excuses are lined up because the default position is denial......and loyalty comes before reality.
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Post by Gassy on Sept 27, 2020 16:21:54 GMT
Problem is though, in my opinion, too many people are far too Willing to say “Oh well, we were always going to lose the first 3 games / the first 3 were really tough fixtures “ etc, but you are right in that we shouldn’t ever EXPECT to lose against another L1 team and we should at the very, very least take the fight to them. That’s what I expect as a lifelong Rovers fan, effort, commitment & passion, not the dull, insipid tippy-tappy we’re dishing up at the moment - I don’t even particularly care if we don’t win every game, but we should at least try to! On paper we have a good squad, but they’re just not being played/managed effectively. And that is purely down to Garner. Good post. Why do so many oh well write off the first 3 matches? We are Bristol Rovers. We have pride and passion. We are in this league just like every other club, on merit. We also beat 2 out of the 3 first three teams last season... All I can take out of it is the excuses are lined up because the default position is denial......and loyalty comes before reality. Do you actually care to show or prove where “so many oh well write off the first 3 matches”? Or are you just making it up, to back your view point? I look forward to seeing the quotes from so many of these posters.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 27, 2020 16:33:58 GMT
Problem is though, in my opinion, too many people are far too Willing to say “Oh well, we were always going to lose the first 3 games / the first 3 were really tough fixtures “ etc, but you are right in that we shouldn’t ever EXPECT to lose against another L1 team and we should at the very, very least take the fight to them. That’s what I expect as a lifelong Rovers fan, effort, commitment & passion, not the dull, insipid tippy-tappy we’re dishing up at the moment - I don’t even particularly care if we don’t win every game, but we should at least try to! On paper we have a good squad, but they’re just not being played/managed effectively. And that is purely down to Garner. Good post. Why do so many oh well write off the first 3 matches? We are Bristol Rovers. We have pride and passion. We are in this league just like every other club, on merit. We also beat 2 out of the 3 first three teams last season... All I can take out of it is the excuses are lined up because the default position is denial......and loyalty comes before reality. I sense some fans have the brains to work out the first 3 games looked tough ones however was I'm charge and if we lost all 3 it wouldn't be too much of a surprise. The EFL computer did BG/Rovers no favours with our first 4 fixtures. If we win next week, or at least don't lose/play well, BG will buy himself some time, if not then Wael will have to decide whether to continue with his "project" or get in a new management team.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 27, 2020 16:38:27 GMT
Good post. Why do so many oh well write off the first 3 matches? We are Bristol Rovers. We have pride and passion. We are in this league just like every other club, on merit. We also beat 2 out of the 3 first three teams last season... All I can take out of it is the excuses are lined up because the default position is denial......and loyalty comes before reality. Do you actually care to show or prove where “so many oh well write off the first 3 matches”? Or are you just making it up, to back your view point? I look forward to seeing the quotes from so many of these posters. This is not a show and tell game (even though I didn't originally post this, I do however believe it as this is commonly used cliché) and I'm not particularly into trawling or trolling fellow GasHeads. What else would the giving more time theory mean? After the first match? After the second match? After this, the 24th match?
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