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Post by LJG on Sept 7, 2020 7:33:41 GMT
I see a lot of people saying “give him 10 games”. I’m curious to know though, that is the line for sacking someone after 10 games? About of points? If so - how many? Position in the table? If so, what’s the lowest? Exactly. Ten games is totally arbitrary. What if he loses the first nine games 1 - 0 then wins game ten 4 - 0? What then? Another ten?
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Post by Rod1883 on Sept 7, 2020 7:41:03 GMT
The real danger, in the current Covid climate, is that the season is cut short if the second wave over winter is bad. If we get a really bad start, a short season with relegation etc decided on points per game up to that point could see us going down. A decision on BG, if we start poorly, needs to be quick.
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Post by lympstonegas on Sept 7, 2020 7:47:43 GMT
That’s a really good point
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Post by bluebiro on Sept 7, 2020 7:52:24 GMT
Agree with rod. You cant look past ten games at the moment.if it all stops you want to have wins under your belt not still bedding in. Go the kids route in the future. We need hardened div1 players at present
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Post by chewbacca on Sept 7, 2020 7:55:38 GMT
I've been one of Garner's fiercest critics, I'd have not appointed him and I'd have sacked him last season/at the point of abandonment. That said, there's really no point in sacking him yet. Our League fixtures this month are horrendous, however October's are decent. If he's not turned things around by the end of October or if it's clear he isn't prior to then, well he has to go. I don't think it's outrageous people are getting itchy feet over a man with such a bad record. It's a huge punt by the club letting him overhaul the playing staff in the way that he has and I hope he has the ability to turn it around.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2020 7:57:57 GMT
The real danger, in the current Covid climate, is that the season is cut short if the second wave over winter is bad. If we get a really bad start, a short season with relegation etc decided on points per game up to that point could see us going down. A decision on BG, if we start poorly, needs to be quick. I get that point but I don’t think Wael will make a rash decision which goes against his long term strategies on such a massive ‘what if’ scenario. it is an interesting issue though. I think all clubs will be looking at average points and thinking about getting off to a decent start - it certainly helped Wycombe at the other end of the table last time! Did anything every get agreed between the clubs for what happens to future seasons affected by a pandemic? Surely they must have agreed something rather than make something up when it occurs and face more arguments and legal threats etc...
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 7, 2020 7:58:25 GMT
Also: Last 18 matches - doesn't count, clean slate. It's changing the narrative to suit the requirements.. I dont think it is changing the narrative at all. But theres a real element of stupidity from fans calling for his head now. Were literally just starting a season. Weve got a plan and that plan is lead by Ben and his structure. Yes, there was a case to get rid during lockdown but we didnt. Therefore we chose this plan, signed players around it and are committed. I'd suggest (baring dreadful results) 12 games would be the normal hallmark of reflection. I'm not sure that's unreasonable? But no doubt you wanna make out that I dont think last season counts... i think its others with the narrative they wish to write. The poster obviously wasn't at Southend! Nothing that was important at that match has changed since then. Also nothing tangible in the post apart from an arbitrary 12 (open for debate exactly how many) matches, but I can't see one post yet in agreement that BG playing no strikers is a fabulously revolutionary idea? Give BG time or matches? He's had time and matches. Over 12, actually. And already a transfer window. The stupidity lies in trying something over and over again and it still not working, then trying it again by giving it more time (?).
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Post by peterhooper57 on Sept 7, 2020 7:58:29 GMT
The real danger, in the current Covid climate, is that the season is cut short if the second wave over winter is bad. If we get a really bad start, a short season with relegation etc decided on points per game up to that point could see us going down. A decision on BG, if we start poorly, needs to be quick. Totally agree. I have thought about it over the weekend and listened to Garners low beat post match verdict, and to say uninspiring is a understatement. Letting all your good & bad forwards go without ONE recognised replacement is unforgivable. The bloke has never managed a senior side before coming to BRFC, he is unfortunately currently out of his depth, his record since arriving proves it, that said if he brings in a couple of forwards within the next 7 days and beats Walsall and gets say at least 2 points from the first two league matches, which to be honest should be easily achievable, then I would be passively content to give him 10 matches, if the results are still LLLL then get rid, asap.
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Post by LJG on Sept 7, 2020 8:01:55 GMT
It's also not true to say he didn't have his own players last season. He brought players in in January, some of whom are still here. So to say it's a fresh start because it wasn't his team before is revisionist and untrue.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Sept 7, 2020 8:18:29 GMT
Also: Last 18 matches - doesn't count, clean slate. It's changing the narrative to suit the requirements.. I dont think it is changing the narrative at all. But theres a real element of stupidity from fans calling for his head now. Were literally just starting a season. Weve got a plan and that plan is lead by Ben and his structure. Yes, there was a case to get rid during lockdown but we didnt. Therefore we chose this plan, signed players around it and are committed. I'd suggest (baring dreadful results) 12 games would be the normal hallmark of reflection. I'm not sure that's unreasonable? But no doubt you wanna make out that I dont think last season counts... i think its others with the narrative they wish to write. As one of BGs biggest critics I agree getting rid would be stupid at this point. You wouldn’t get rid of a new manager early and it makes sense to treat it as if Ben is a new manager. That said, the threshold should be set lower if initial results and or performances follow the trend of last season and the trigger promptly pulled. There’s no points for being fair to your manager and it’s not as if he hasn’t been given a chance. There is also a clear distinction between what supporters thing the club should do and what a given supporter would like to do if they were in charge, to even then their judgement on BG as a manager and his prospects in the future. For instance, I think the club should keep him on, with very close attention paid to performances and results, for a reasonable number of fixtures depending on how bad things are (obviously if good, we forget about this conversation altogether). However if I was in charge? Being reasonable id be tempted to keep him on just because of new season affect. But then the temptation would probably be too high to move him on! On pure judgement I’m just waiting for him to get the chop so I can enjoy watching the gas again.
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Post by warehamgas on Sept 7, 2020 8:29:09 GMT
memories you must be joking notts county went up on the coach for the evening match lost 4-0 hayes lost 1'0 leeds fa cup lost4-0 fond memories you must be joking We’ve been promoted and relegated both four times in my time supporting the Gas and I reckon it’s probably pretty even in your time too. For every shocking result theres a good one when you just go up and down through the 3 divisions ( and one year non league ) that’s just the way it is . Or glass half empty ? Exactly, 5 times for me but spot on. UTG!
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Sept 7, 2020 8:38:51 GMT
It's also not true to say he didn't have his own players last season. He brought players in in January, some of whom are still here. So to say it's a fresh start because it wasn't his team before is revisionist and untrue. God we agree!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2020 8:39:30 GMT
It's also not true to say he didn't have his own players last season. He brought players in in January, some of whom are still here. So to say it's a fresh start because it wasn't his team before is revisionist and untrue. Yeah, ignoring that he had the chance to make signings in January is all part of the mental gymnastics people are putting themselves through to convince themselves that he deserves more time. I recall posters crowing about our January signings and how the manager was being backed! No doubt if he had won more games in that period people would be pointing to the likes of Timmy Abraham and saying “look what he can do when he has players he wants!” because he didn’t those players are forgotten and it wasn’t his team. People construct the narrative they want and work backwards from there.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Sept 7, 2020 8:40:21 GMT
For the record, I wouldn't sack him right now. I would have got rid him already. However, we've lasted this long with him, give him a few more games to see if there is much improvement. I wouldn't put a number on it though, like I've said in a previous post if we get progressively worse then why wait?
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Post by Gas-Ed on Sept 7, 2020 8:43:07 GMT
It's also not true to say he didn't have his own players last season. He brought players in in January, some of whom are still here. So to say it's a fresh start because it wasn't his team before is revisionist and untrue. He also took over a side in the top 6. They weren’t bad players. If we were bottom 6 then fair enough, but he should have been able to navigate us to a half-decent second half of the season. Two wins since he took over. Let that sink in.
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Post by horfield on Sept 7, 2020 8:50:59 GMT
I think Neil Warnock as a guest on Quest last season when asked about Garner said there was a big difference from being a coach and a manager. Garner just comes across as timid with front line experience anywhere, look how he accepted the sale of JCH to a rival in the same division and actually praised the owner and CEO for the way they dealt with the matter. I just hope when the inevitable happens the next appointment is a manager, not someone who it is suggested put himself forward on social media to the owner as the way forward.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Sept 7, 2020 8:53:35 GMT
It's also not true to say he didn't have his own players last season. He brought players in in January, some of whom are still here. So to say it's a fresh start because it wasn't his team before is revisionist and untrue. He also took over a side in the top 6. They weren’t bad players. If we were bottom 6 then fair enough, but he should have been able to navigate us to a half-decent second half of the season. Two wins since he took over. Let that sink in. Quite, that’s the difference with the DC comparison too for me.
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Post by Gastafari on Sept 7, 2020 8:54:51 GMT
I think it's fair to say BG was brought in primarily for the reason Wael wanted the club to go in a completely different direction in regards to philosophy. It's no real surprise that the majority of the squad he inherited from last year are no longer here or not wanted, Craig, THD, Rollin, Ollie Clarke, Sercombe, Ogogo, Bennett, and now JCH. Surely he deserves time, especially a few league games this term, that's all i'm saying. I hope this is the philosophy the club has as a blueprint moving forward as well, so that even if BG does completely fail, the next guy can come in, and then the next guy etc, etc, without having complete overhauls of the squad everytime a manager goes. The Swansea, Brentford et al type of method Picking methods out of a hat is all well and good, in fact I worry that’s the crux of the issue with Garner. He has arrived at a philosophy and is working backwards in terms of how he is going to implement it when he has no experience of how to implement *any* sort of philosophy in a pro league setting. I’m not sure what experience Thomas Frank has, Martinez played the game to a decent standard. It all seems very much like Garner thinks this is all a lot easier than it actually is and the transition from blackboard to pitch is a gap he wasn’t ready for and is probably insurmountable at this point in his career. You could possibly be right. I posted previously about the similarities between BG and Brendan Rodgers. They both had to retire from the game as teenagers through injuries, they both took up coaching at a young age with rave reviews from Premier League managers and youth players they've coached. Brendan Rodgers struggled in his first managerial roles at Watford and Reading, he got sacked from both jobs within 6 months. Who knows BG might go on to have a career like Rodgers, managing at the top table in the Premier League in 10 years time, and we're just the first Guinea Pig club for him to practice and learn on the job without much joy.
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Post by Gas-Ed on Sept 7, 2020 8:56:29 GMT
He also took over a side in the top 6. They weren’t bad players. If we were bottom 6 then fair enough, but he should have been able to navigate us to a half-decent second half of the season. Two wins since he took over. Let that sink in. Quite, that’s the difference with the DC comparison too for me. Precisely. DC was trying to do running repairs on a sinking ship. How he got us back up at the first attempt and then again the following season was as close to a miracle as Bristol Rovers are likely to experience.
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Sept 7, 2020 8:56:58 GMT
Why would the dream by over, surely, someone like Holloway can develop youngsters just as well as BG? Under GC Kilgour and Mayonnaise were outstanding, after yesterday's game I'm not sure certain I'd pick AK at Sunderland and Mayo had been sold. Im not surprised Kilgour looked good in Coughlan's team as it was all about getting stuck in and hoofing the ball upfield. Bit different now he's being asked to play out from the back.
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