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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Sept 7, 2020 9:05:49 GMT
Why would the dream by over, surely, someone like Holloway can develop youngsters just as well as BG? Under GC Kilgour and Mayonnaise were outstanding, after yesterday's game I'm not sure certain I'd pick AK at Sunderland and Mayo had been sold. Im not surprised Kilgour looked good in Coughlan's team as it was all about getting stuck in and hoofing the ball upfield. Bit different now he's being asked to play out from the back. I think he's a good player, and being shoved out to play LCB after establishing himself at RCB isn't going to help him.
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Post by chewbacca on Sept 7, 2020 9:37:01 GMT
Im not surprised Kilgour looked good in Coughlan's team as it was all about getting stuck in and hoofing the ball upfield. Bit different now he's being asked to play out from the back. I think he's a good player, and being shoved out to play LCB after establishing himself at RCB isn't going to help him. We started the game with three centre backs with 556 Football League games worth of experience and shifted the player with 37 games experience to left centreback. Reminds me of talking to DC once and his obsession with left footed centre backs (Macca, Parkes, Sweeney, Craig, Broadbent & Hartley). To quote what he once said to me "they're as rare as a rock in horse sh** and even up your backline".
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Post by androyd on Sept 7, 2020 10:05:27 GMT
One competitive match into a new season with almost entirely his own squad and questions like this! For gods sake give the guy a break. The additions to the squad are a better quality than many years and on the evidence of friendlies the quality of play better. JCH was out of his hands and it was entirely responsible to resolve that situation before entering the market for additions. Also everyone knows values and wage demands drop as we get closer to the window closing. No one wants a repeat of Stephan Payne so patience please. I have a feeling Forss from Brentford on loan and a modest fee for a permanent - I hope with experience. BG will never please some people because he hasn’t got a Bristol accent or the initials DC.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Sept 7, 2020 10:08:33 GMT
One competitive match into a new season with almost entirely his own squad and questions like this! For gods sake give the guy a break. The additions to the squad are a better quality than many years and on the evidence of friendlies the quality of play better. JCH was out of his hands and it was entirely responsible to resolve that situation before entering the market for additions. Also everyone knows values and wage demands drop as we get closer to the window closing. No one wants a repeat of Stephan Payne so patience please. I have a feeling Forss from Brentford on loan and a modest fee for a permanent - I hope with experience. BG will never please some people because he hasn’t got a Bristol accent or the initials DC. Rubbish. Nothing to do with Bristol accent or initials DC, how about trying to win some games, or at least being competitive!
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Post by androyd on Sept 7, 2020 10:14:49 GMT
I could have been more explicit - Holloway.
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Post by axegas on Sept 7, 2020 10:20:18 GMT
It's also not true to say he didn't have his own players last season. He brought players in in January, some of whom are still here. So to say it's a fresh start because it wasn't his team before is revisionist and untrue. I think we all know that the Summer transfer window is a much better time to undergo an overhaul of the playing squad than in January. Garner had to make deal with loans and signings from Championship U23 sides in that window because he didn't have a lot of budget to work with. For the large part though it was still a team made up of players signed by DC and GC who were used to playing a different style of play to the one Garner wanted to bring in, that's neither revisionist or untrue, just a fact. The summer window gives him a new budget, a chance to get rid of the players that he thinks won't fit his system, replace said players with other players on the wages they were on. That's why it's a bit of an opportunity for a fresh start for him.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Sept 7, 2020 10:42:47 GMT
I could have been more explicit - Holloway. Be as explicit as you like, you're still talking rubbish.
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Post by chewbacca on Sept 7, 2020 10:48:39 GMT
I could have been more explicit - Holloway. I didn't want Garner, I didn't want Holloway, I thought it was the right time for DC to leave. For the record, I wanted Ian Culverhouse.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Sept 7, 2020 10:58:39 GMT
I could have been more explicit - Holloway. I didn't want Garner, I didn't want Holloway, I thought it was the right time for DC to leave. For the record, I wanted Ian Culverhouse. Maybe IC's included in this illustrious list (Ian Holloway's initials and Darrell Clarke's initials together)
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Post by pucklegas on Sept 7, 2020 11:06:21 GMT
Cant we wait ten games until we debate this, under DC we were rubbish until then each season but he didn't have this furore.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Sept 7, 2020 11:10:39 GMT
Cant we wait ten games until we debate this, under DC we were rubbish until then each season but he didn't have this furore. He got relegated under Wards form so had a banker, then had a banker every season after that because of what he’d already achieved. Garner has no banker for some of us because of what he has (or rather, hasn’t) achieved given the form coming into the club.
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Post by Icegas on Sept 7, 2020 11:27:57 GMT
It's also not true to say he didn't have his own players last season. He brought players in in January, some of whom are still here. So to say it's a fresh start because it wasn't his team before is revisionist and untrue. I think we all know that the Summer transfer window is a much better time to undergo an overhaul of the playing squad than in January. Garner had to make deal with loans and signings from Championship U23 sides in that window because he didn't have a lot of budget to work with. For the large part though it was still a team made up of players signed by DC and GC who were used to playing a different style of play to the one Garner wanted to bring in, that's neither revisionist or untrue, just a fact. The summer window gives him a new budget, a chance to get rid of the players that he thinks won't fit his system, replace said players with other players on the wages they were on. That's why it's a bit of an opportunity for a fresh start for him. Most managers have to work with the squads that they have for a while when they take over a role as manager at any new club,and then over time change thoses players and the style of play at the club to fit in with there aims. Saying he didn't have the players to fit into his style is a cop out and basically lies. He has had a very...very good transfer window this long summer.And if I remember rightly he was afforded a decent few signings in January this year also..He has also been given almost a clean slate given our lockdown period and his awlful record forgotten due to people just craving watching football again. It's his fault his record here only reads 2 wins in 20 games or so.He should have tried to changes things slowly and keep the winning mentallity we had at the time but sadly proved he can't manage any other style then what he thinks it should be and I believe people are mad or at least questioning what is his style of management is as we don't see any improvement yet. It's silly to be calling for his job before a league game has been played, but unless we win 50% of our first 10 league games,or at the very minimum we start to see his team clicking and playing the way he talks about then I would start looking for a replacement.
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Post by pucklegas on Sept 7, 2020 11:35:23 GMT
I think we all know that the Summer transfer window is a much better time to undergo an overhaul of the playing squad than in January. Garner had to make deal with loans and signings from Championship U23 sides in that window because he didn't have a lot of budget to work with. For the large part though it was still a team made up of players signed by DC and GC who were used to playing a different style of play to the one Garner wanted to bring in, that's neither revisionist or untrue, just a fact. The summer window gives him a new budget, a chance to get rid of the players that he thinks won't fit his system, replace said players with other players on the wages they were on. That's why it's a bit of an opportunity for a fresh start for him. Most managers have to work with the squads that they have for a while when they take over a role as manager at any new club,and then over time change thoses players and the style of play at the club to fit in with there aims. Saying he didn't have the players to fit into his style is a cop out and basically lies. He has had a very...very good transfer window this long summer.And if I remember rightly he was afforded a decent few signings in January this year also..He has also been given almost a clean slate given our lockdown period and his awlful record forgotten due to people just craving watching football again. It's his fault his record here only reads 2 wins in 20 games or so.He should have tried to changes things slowly and keep the winning mentallity we had at the time but sadly proved he can't manage any other style then what he thinks it should be and I believe people are mad or at least questioning what is his style of management is as we don't see any improvement yet. It's silly to be calling for his job before a league game has been played, but unless we win 50% of our first 10 league games,or at the very minimum we start to see his team clicking and playing the way he talks about then I would start looking for a replacement. So we have to achieve promotion form almost which is 20 points otherwise we think about a replacement that is tough when you look at our start, a lot on here want him to fail unfortunately. New managers want their own players that is not feasible, the team needs to gel, think most agree the signings are decent. He will have to get the right strikers in or we will struggle to score enough I accept that.
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Post by GasAttacK on Sept 7, 2020 11:36:20 GMT
Everyone is going to have their own opinion on this, as will Wael.
Despite his poor record last season, there is clearly no chance of him being sacked after one cup game, so many will say it's too early to even bring the subject up.
However, nobody is calling for his head yet, just discussing how long he will be given IF things don't improve.
By the end of October we'll have played 3 cup games and 10 league games. I think at that point we need to have seen a significant improvement in performances and results.
The only way I can see him going before that is if we're getting well beat in every game. If that happens it's possible the Burton home game could be pivotal.
Like many, I've got serious doubts he can turn things around based on what we've seen since he took charge but I haven't lost all hope, yet.
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Post by bluebiro on Sept 7, 2020 11:41:56 GMT
He is getting grief because he took over a winning team with confidence and destroyed it. Other managers usually come in mid season to save a season not ruin it. If you were at ipswich last season those players were not getting beaten that day even If it was last man standing.only one guy killed the dream of some success
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Post by baggins on Sept 7, 2020 11:52:02 GMT
He is getting grief because he took over a winning team with confidence and destroyed it. Other managers usually come in mid season to save a season not ruin it. If you were at ipswich last season those players were not getting beaten that day even If it was last man standing.only one guy killed the dream of some success Don't like him then?
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 7, 2020 11:54:48 GMT
He is getting grief because he took over a winning team with confidence and destroyed it. Other managers usually come in mid season to save a season not ruin it. If you were at ipswich last season those players were not getting beaten that day even If it was last man standing.only one guy killed the dream of some success That's a great post and exactly to the point.
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Post by olskooltoteender on Sept 7, 2020 11:55:58 GMT
I dont think it is changing the narrative at all. But theres a real element of stupidity from fans calling for his head now. Were literally just starting a season. Weve got a plan and that plan is lead by Ben and his structure. Yes, there was a case to get rid during lockdown but we didnt. Therefore we chose this plan, signed players around it and are committed. I'd suggest (baring dreadful results) 12 games would be the normal hallmark of reflection. I'm not sure that's unreasonable? But no doubt you wanna make out that I dont think last season counts... i think its others with the narrative they wish to write. The poster obviously wasn't at Southend! Nothing that was important at that match has changed since then. Also nothing tangible in the post apart from an arbitrary 12 (open for debate exactly how many) matches, but I can't see one post yet in agreement that BG playing no strikers is a fabulously revolutionary idea? Give BG time or matches? He's had time and matches. Over 12, actually. And already a transfer window. The stupidity lies in trying something over and over again and it still not working, then trying it again by giving it more time (?). I do believe that’s the accepted definition of insanity (or even inanity, depending on how you feel about Garner’s post-match Interviews)
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 7, 2020 12:02:09 GMT
Everyone is going to have their own opinion on this, as will Wael. Despite his poor record last season, there is clearly no chance of him being sacked after one cup game, However, nobody is calling for his head yet, Fair point. I would argue that this is EXACTLY the right time to call for his head. A new manager coming in might have contacts during what's left of the transfer window to make a difference. If you leave 10-15 matches in, it's too late to change anything and BG would have had over 30 games by then. This is statistically the worst manager in our history, and I've seen nothing in his team selection, or formations, or reaction to when things don't work out in real time to see it will reasonably change..
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Post by baggins on Sept 7, 2020 12:06:10 GMT
Everyone is going to have their own opinion on this, as will Wael. Despite his poor record last season, there is clearly no chance of him being sacked after one cup game, However, nobody is calling for his head yet, Fair point. I would argue that this is EXACTLY the right time to call for his head. A new manager coming in might have contacts during what's left of the transfer window to make a difference. If you leave 10-15 matches in, it's too late to change anything and BG would have had over 30 games by then. This is statistically the worst manager in our history, and I've seen nothing in his team selection, or formations, or reaction to when things don't work out in real time to see it will reasonably change.. So let him put his own squad together then sack him?
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