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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 18:50:19 GMT
Got rid of the anachronistic system of monarchy.
A Republic...like we should be
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Post by blueridge on Sept 16, 2020 19:55:23 GMT
Got rid of the anachronistic system of monarchy. A Republic...like we should be Why are you living in a Country you hate so much?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 20:27:00 GMT
Got rid of the anachronistic system of monarchy. A Republic...like we should be Why are you living in a Country you hate so much? Yawn
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Post by stuart1974 on Sept 16, 2020 21:19:20 GMT
Got rid of the anachronistic system of monarchy. A Republic...like we should be Why are you living in a Country you hate so much? I wouldn't worry too much, Oldies' a frustrated 1960s revolutionary. Anything to do with the Establishment.....🙃
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Post by stuart1974 on Sept 16, 2020 21:22:07 GMT
Got rid of the anachronistic system of monarchy. A Republic...like we should be If there is one thing we should have learnt from the Brexit debacle is that changing something for the sake of it rather than for the better isn't necessarily a good idea. What model are you seeing replacing it?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 21:29:11 GMT
Got rid of the anachronistic system of monarchy. A Republic...like we should be Yawn
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 4:36:37 GMT
Got rid of the anachronistic system of monarchy. A Republic...like we should be If there is one thing we should have learnt from the Brexit debacle is that changing something for the sake of it rather than for the better isn't necessarily a good idea. What model are you seeing replacing it? True But, the starting position has to be a democratic system which truly represents the will of the population of the country. An unelected medieval style head of state does not, an unelected body within government does not, a neutered and powerless local administration's, largely dependent upon money from the centre, does not and a selection process for MPs that dictates absolute loyalty to a small party cabal, does not. You made me laugh about being a frustrated 1960s revolutionary, images of Citizen Smith went through my mind. But the real question, is the above true?
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Post by stuart1974 on Sept 17, 2020 8:06:28 GMT
If there is one thing we should have learnt from the Brexit debacle is that changing something for the sake of it rather than for the better isn't necessarily a good idea. What model are you seeing replacing it? True But, the starting position has to be a democratic system which truly represents the will of the population of the country. An unelected medieval style head of state does not, an unelected body within government does not, a neutered and powerless local administration's, largely dependent upon money from the centre, does not and a selection process for MPs that dictates absolute loyalty to a small party cabal, does not. You made me laugh about being a frustrated 1960s revolutionary, images of Citizen Smith went through my mind. But the real question, is the above true? Funnily enough, Wolfie was exactly who I had in mind when I posted. I can just see you now being driven through Clifton and Sneyd Park in a Scorpion light tank with a bottle of Château la faviere in one hand and a loud haler in the other shouting "Power to the People, via the mechanism of a non binding referendum, whose results will be acted upon requiring a simple majority for domestic law and a two third majority for constitutional or international changes." 🤗 In answer to your question though, I would say it isn't true. We have to work with what we inherit. I would challenge the notion of this being medieval, the role and powers of a modern day Constitutional Monarchy is closer to a Republic in all but name than what any real medieval King would recognise, or even one of the absolute monarchs that still exist today in the world. Whilst not perfect and still requiring ongoing changes, it seems to work okay in other democracies such as Sweden, The Netherlands, Denmark. From what you wrote above, I get the impression you would prefer a President similar to France or the US rather than in the Constitutional President style of Ireland or Germany. Personally I don't see an appetite to make that sort of major change to the workings of government, I'd rather see a referendum when the current Queen dies to either change then or rubber stamp Charles III/George VII whichever title he takes.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 8:39:05 GMT
Stuart wrote
"Funnily enough, Wolfie was exactly who I had in mind when I posted. I can just see you now being driven through Clifton and Sneyd Park in a Scorpion light tank with a bottle of Château la faviere in one hand and a loud haler in the other shouting "Power to the People, via the mechanism of a non binding referendum, whose results will be acted upon requiring a simple majority for domestic law and a two third majority for constitutional or international changes." 🤗"
Precisely...I swear Robert Lindsay was miscast, it should have been me😂😂😂
Work with what we inherit...emm. Of course to a point, evolutionary change is always the preferred option, until evolution stops and becomes distorted, which in terms of our system of Government it surely has. Distorted because the cynical use of the monarchy, in particular Elizabeth, as a rallying call to cover incompetence and lies, disables progressive discussion of the problems and solutions, because those solutions may well be to the detriment of established authority. To take the, or one of the, worse and most cynical is the use of Captain Tom by the establishment through the media. The poor guy. He is well into his nineties I believe and here he was on BBC News this morning, suitably adorned with his medals being questioned about his late wife's mental health suffering. It was so painful to watch I flipped channels to ITV, the channel of opioid nonsense, to witness one of the presenters with post it notes stuck all over his face. I felt so sorry for Capt Tom (apologies I cannot recall his surname), chosen to front a new charity at his age, disgraceful really on the part of whoever is setting that up.
Later, driving into work, I hear the absolute shambles in our justice system with court cases being adjourned into 2022. Yes Covid is a factor, but this was happening in any evvent as the legal beagles pointed out, especially since 2010 and the austerity induced slashing of budgets. I mention this only because our dear friends in Government announced with some noise yesterday a toughening of sentencing guidelines. Which is a fat a lot of good if defendants cannot be tried in court, worse when there are not enough prison places to hold the guilty.
Cue a tough question, whereupon the governing establishment get the media to roll images of Elizabeth and her entourage, especially the grandkids (always a winner with pensioners and people who attend food banks) or now, a slam dunk, roll out poor Capt Tom with a story of his poor long suffering late wife.
There bad news on justice buried.
That's why, one of the reasons we need change.
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Post by stuart1974 on Sept 17, 2020 8:46:27 GMT
"whereupon the governing establishment get the media to roll images of Elizabeth and her entourage, especially the grandkids"
Really? I'd have thought the editors would disagree about who tells whom what.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 10:56:11 GMT
"whereupon the governing establishment get the media to roll images of Elizabeth and her entourage, especially the grandkids" Really? I'd have thought the editors would disagree about who tells whom what. Take a month in any period and just count the stories
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Post by stuart1974 on Sept 17, 2020 11:15:49 GMT
"whereupon the governing establishment get the media to roll images of Elizabeth and her entourage, especially the grandkids" Really? I'd have thought the editors would disagree about who tells whom what. Take a month in any period and just count the stories Don't doubt the volume, just the reasoning. Editors choose it because it sells copy, not an establishment conspiracy. Back on topic, what form of President would you want instead?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 15:42:31 GMT
Take a month in any period and just count the stories Don't doubt the volume, just the reasoning. Editors choose it because it sells copy, not an establishment conspiracy. Back on topic, what form of President would you want instead? I wouldn't start from the position at the top. Democracy starts at a local level and that has be predicated upon having the ability to raise funds through taxation locally and be accountable for that money. We had that until Thatcher emasculated local government in the 80s. You build from there. I like the US system of a Senate and Congress at the federal level with a chief executive, but take away the money influence. Equally a smaller version at a local demographic. It's more accountable and encourages participation. Unlike what we have now.
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Post by stuart1974 on Sept 17, 2020 16:05:01 GMT
Don't doubt the volume, just the reasoning. Editors choose it because it sells copy, not an establishment conspiracy. Back on topic, what form of President would you want instead? I wouldn't start from the position at the top. Democracy starts at a local level and that has be predicated upon having the ability to raise funds through taxation locally and be accountable for that money. We had that until Thatcher emasculated local government in the 80s. You build from there. I like the US system of a Senate and Congress at the federal level with a chief executive, but take away the money influence. Equally a smaller version at a local demographic. It's more accountable and encourages participation. Unlike what we have now. Well I can't disagree too much there, I'd certainly like to see devolved powers to regional assemblies with Westminster becoming a UK only Parliament. Cabinet reduces to about a dozen ministries at most, probably fewer. MPs down to 300-400 and the Lords becoming a revising chamber with set 12 year terms, renewable once.
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Post by inee on Sept 23, 2020 14:08:48 GMT
Stuart wrote "Funnily enough, Wolfie was exactly who I had in mind when I posted. I can just see you now being driven through Clifton and Sneyd Park in a Scorpion light tank with a bottle of Château la faviere in one hand and a loud haler in the other shouting "Power to the People, via the mechanism of a non binding referendum, whose results will be acted upon requiring a simple majority for domestic law and a two third majority for constitutional or international changes." 🤗" Precisely...I swear Robert Lindsay was miscast, it should have been me😂😂😂 Work with what we inherit...emm. Of course to a point, evolutionary change is always the preferred option, until evolution stops and becomes distorted, which in terms of our system of Government it surely has. Distorted because the cynical use of the monarchy, in particular Elizabeth, as a rallying call to cover incompetence and lies, disables progressive discussion of the problems and solutions, because those solutions may well be to the detriment of established authority. To take the, or one of the, worse and most cynical is the use of Captain Tom by the establishment through the media. The poor guy. He is well into his nineties I believe and here he was on BBC News this morning, suitably adorned with his medals being questioned about his late wife's mental health suffering. It was so painful to watch I flipped channels to ITV, the channel of opioid nonsense, to witness one of the presenters with post it notes stuck all over his face. I felt so sorry for Capt Tom (apologies I cannot recall his surname), chosen to front a new charity at his age, disgraceful really on the part of whoever is setting that up. Later, driving into work, I hear the absolute shambles in our justice system with court cases being adjourned into 2022. Yes Covid is a factor, but this was happening in any evvent as the legal beagles pointed out, especially since 2010 and the austerity induced slashing of budgets. I mention this only because our dear friends in Government announced with some noise yesterday a toughening of sentencing guidelines. Which is a fat a lot of good if defendants cannot be tried in court, worse when there are not enough prison places to hold the guilty. Cue a tough question, whereupon the governing establishment get the media to roll images of Elizabeth and her entourage, especially the grandkids (always a winner with pensioners and people who attend food banks) or now, a slam dunk, roll out poor Capt Tom with a story of his poor long suffering late wife.There bad news on justice buried. That's why, one of the reasons we need change. Court cases are still going ahead although in a different format, many cases are being done via telephone( which is something that hopefully carry on after the lockdown ends, it's way more efficient in the areas it's used in. court appearances are still taking place, but only the worst charges are being dealt with face to face . Yup you are correct silence a war hero who inspired many to donate to his charity, yup silence an old bloke who got off his arse and did something that took peoples mind of the sh** time we are having. Also silence the guy who has an honoury position at the army college, who believe it or not will inspire so many soldiers to not give up and give that final push that makes our forces one of the best in the world, oh yeah nearly forgot silence someone who has experienced mental health from a carers point of view the other side of mental health is one most dont hear about. Heres one for you Capt Tom Moore has inspired many to get them through this difficult time, how many have you inspired or helped cope with what's happening around us
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Post by inee on Sept 23, 2020 14:13:03 GMT
If there is one thing we should have learnt from the Brexit debacle is that changing something for the sake of it rather than for the better isn't necessarily a good idea. What model are you seeing replacing it? True But, the starting position has to be a democratic system which truly represents the will of the population of the country. An unelected medieval style head of state does not, an unelected body within government does not, a neutered and powerless local administration's, largely dependent upon money from the centre, does not and a selection process for MPs that dictates absolute loyalty to a small party cabal, does not. You made me laugh about being a frustrated 1960s revolutionary, images of Citizen Smith went through my mind. But the real question, is the above true? Hmmm so if we held a vote on the monarchy and the result was that we carry on as normal, would you accept that vote or still try to get another vote going until the results were favourable to you Deja Vue anyone??
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Post by blueridge on Sept 23, 2020 15:13:15 GMT
True But, the starting position has to be a democratic system which truly represents the will of the population of the country. An unelected medieval style head of state does not, an unelected body within government does not, a neutered and powerless local administration's, largely dependent upon money from the centre, does not and a selection process for MPs that dictates absolute loyalty to a small party cabal, does not. You made me laugh about being a frustrated 1960s revolutionary, images of Citizen Smith went through my mind. But the real question, is the above true? Hmmm so if we held a vote on the monarchy and the result was that we carry on as normal, would you accept that vote or still try to get another vote going until the results were favourable to you Deja Vue anyone?? He will struggle to associate himself with anything that demonstrates Patriotism - a bit like his previous polical leader.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2020 19:53:31 GMT
Stuart wrote "Funnily enough, Wolfie was exactly who I had in mind when I posted. I can just see you now being driven through Clifton and Sneyd Park in a Scorpion light tank with a bottle of Château la faviere in one hand and a loud haler in the other shouting "Power to the People, via the mechanism of a non binding referendum, whose results will be acted upon requiring a simple majority for domestic law and a two third majority for constitutional or international changes." 🤗" Precisely...I swear Robert Lindsay was miscast, it should have been me😂😂😂 Work with what we inherit...emm. Of course to a point, evolutionary change is always the preferred option, until evolution stops and becomes distorted, which in terms of our system of Government it surely has. Distorted because the cynical use of the monarchy, in particular Elizabeth, as a rallying call to cover incompetence and lies, disables progressive discussion of the problems and solutions, because those solutions may well be to the detriment of established authority. To take the, or one of the, worse and most cynical is the use of Captain Tom by the establishment through the media. The poor guy. He is well into his nineties I believe and here he was on BBC News this morning, suitably adorned with his medals being questioned about his late wife's mental health suffering. It was so painful to watch I flipped channels to ITV, the channel of opioid nonsense, to witness one of the presenters with post it notes stuck all over his face. I felt so sorry for Capt Tom (apologies I cannot recall his surname), chosen to front a new charity at his age, disgraceful really on the part of whoever is setting that up. Later, driving into work, I hear the absolute shambles in our justice system with court cases being adjourned into 2022. Yes Covid is a factor, but this was happening in any evvent as the legal beagles pointed out, especially since 2010 and the austerity induced slashing of budgets. I mention this only because our dear friends in Government announced with some noise yesterday a toughening of sentencing guidelines. Which is a fat a lot of good if defendants cannot be tried in court, worse when there are not enough prison places to hold the guilty. Cue a tough question, whereupon the governing establishment get the media to roll images of Elizabeth and her entourage, especially the grandkids (always a winner with pensioners and people who attend food banks) or now, a slam dunk, roll out poor Capt Tom with a story of his poor long suffering late wife.There bad news on justice buried. That's why, one of the reasons we need change. Court cases are still going ahead although in a different format, many cases are being done via telephone( which is something that hopefully carry on after the lockdown ends, it's way more efficient in the areas it's used in. court appearances are still taking place, but only the worst charges are being dealt with face to face . Yup you are correct silence a war hero who inspired many to donate to his charity, yup silence an old bloke who got off his arse and did something that took peoples mind of the sh** time we are having. Also silence the guy who has an honoury position at the army college, who believe it or not will inspire so many soldiers to not give up and give that final push that makes our forces one of the best in the world, oh yeah nearly forgot silence someone who has experienced mental health from a carers point of view the other side of mental health is one most dont hear about. Heres one for you Capt Tom Moore has inspired many to get them through this difficult time, how many have you inspired or helped cope with what's happening around us You miss the point almost entirely
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Post by oldgas on Sept 27, 2020 10:41:27 GMT
Got rid of the anachronistic system of monarchy. A Republic...like we should be I see that China are putting pressure on Barbados to become a republic and remove HRH as Head of State. China are using the loans for infrastructure and other development as leverage because they want to bring Barbados, and other developing countries into their sphere of influence. Would you like GB to become a republic and Chinese satellite country as well? Be careful what you wish for. Although, of course you are a Corbin hat-wearing Marxist so that’s probably your idea of utopia. I hope you’re not a Muslim, you end up in one of those ‘re-education’ camps like the Uighur people of Northern China.
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Post by baggins on Sept 27, 2020 11:50:05 GMT
Got rid of the anachronistic system of monarchy. A Republic...like we should be I see that China are putting pressure on Barbados to become a republic and remove HRH as Head of State. China are using the loans for infrastructure and other development as leverage because they want to bring Barbados, and other developing countries into their sphere of influence. Would you like GB to become a republic and Chinese satellite country as well? Be careful what you wish for. Although, of course you are a Corbin hat-wearing Marxist so that’s probably your idea of utopia. I hope you’re not a Muslim, you end up in one of those ‘re-education’ camps like the Uighur people of Northern China. I hope you're not a Muslim?
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