|
Post by Topper Gas on Oct 10, 2020 18:39:25 GMT
I said until end of October and then review it which I stand by. I can't see BG getting the sack now even if we lost every other game we play in October, particularly once the transfer window is closed. Although not sure why posters aren't now backing him after today's performance.
|
|
|
Post by rovers69 on Oct 10, 2020 18:43:52 GMT
The problem is that there is a minority of "fans" who want him to fail -so based on this they want the Gas to lose-just crazy-anybody can see what Garner is trying to achieve but he needs the time.GC will soon be sacked by Mansfield so no doubt they will put up the banners to bring him back. If that happens then happy we are not allowed in the stadium to watch his style of football. All i would ask of Garner/Wael is get another forward and who can score goals as that's all we need to be a good side with a good depth of young talent
|
|
|
Post by Hudson1883 on Oct 10, 2020 18:45:19 GMT
I said until end of October and then review it which I stand by. I can't see BG getting the sack now even if we lost every other game we play in October, particularly once the transfer window is closed. Although not sure why posters aren't now backing him after today's performance. Because some people do not have it within them to give credit where it is due. No doubt in all aspects of their lives, not just Rovers. 3 top performances in a row and still people are picking fault. We have a great chance to place well into the top end of the table next week, at home to Burton and keep this momentum going. Though some will be craving that home draw or (dare I say it) loss, so they can begin their ‘BG out’ ramblings once more.
|
|
|
Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 10, 2020 18:52:45 GMT
The problem is that there is a minority of "fans" who want him to fail -so based on this they want the Gas to lose-just crazy-anybody can see what Garner is trying to achieve but he needs the time.GC will soon be sacked by Mansfield so no doubt they will put up the banners to bring him back. If that happens then happy we are not allowed in the stadium to watch his style of football. All i would ask of Garner/Wael is get another forward and who can score goals as that's all we need to be a good side with a good depth of young talent Fair post as I guess some of that applies to this forum and the fanbase, but it's unpalatable because fans and supporters are not necessarily the same thing. I think we definitely need a proven goalscorer to replace jch. It's based upon prior evidence that when we don't suitably replace, we struggle with relegation. It's a huge risk, because you need someone or some players to step up.. In this period of complacency, the transfer window closes, half decent managers suss out our pattern and it's too late to bring in anyone, injuries and suspension occur....we end up struggling. And relegation beckons.
|
|
|
Post by socrates on Oct 10, 2020 18:53:54 GMT
I can't see BG getting the sack now even if we lost every other game we play in October, particularly once the transfer window is closed. Although not sure why posters aren't now backing him after today's performance. Because some people do not have it within them to give credit where it is due. No doubt in all aspects of their lives, not just Rovers. 3 top performances in a row and still people are picking fault. We have a great chance to place well into the top end of the table next week, at home to Burton and keep this momentum going. Though some will be craving that home draw or (dare I say it) loss, so they can begin their ‘BG out’ ramblings once more. I’m not convinced there are many Gasheads who want us to fail. Do you really think that ?
|
|
|
Post by Hudson1883 on Oct 10, 2020 18:56:14 GMT
Because some people do not have it within them to give credit where it is due. No doubt in all aspects of their lives, not just Rovers. 3 top performances in a row and still people are picking fault. We have a great chance to place well into the top end of the table next week, at home to Burton and keep this momentum going. Though some will be craving that home draw or (dare I say it) loss, so they can begin their ‘BG out’ ramblings once more. I’m not convinced there are many Gasheads who want us to fail. Do you really think that ? If Mr X wants Ben Garner to fail, they wish the team & club to fail. That much is fact.
|
|
|
Post by socrates on Oct 10, 2020 19:08:23 GMT
I’m not convinced there are many Gasheads who want us to fail. Do you really think that ? If Mr X wants Ben Garner to fail, they wish the team & club to fail. That much is fact. Yeah obviously but I can’t think why any Rovers supporter would want our manager and therefore the club to fail. I suppose there probably is the odd one who isn’t right in the head and seriously has mental health problems but generally clubs supporters want their team to win otherwise surely they aren’t supporters. Perhaps anyone on here who wants the club to fail is not a Rovers supporter and is a Shithead in disguise.
|
|
|
Post by Hudson1883 on Oct 10, 2020 19:12:41 GMT
If Mr X wants Ben Garner to fail, they wish the team & club to fail. That much is fact. Yeah obviously but I can’t think why any Rovers supporter would want our manager and therefore the club to fail. I suppose there probably is the odd one who isn’t right in the head and seriously has mental health problems but generally clubs supporters want their team to win otherwise surely they aren’t supporters. Perhaps anyone on here who wants the club to fail is not a Rovers supporter and is a Shithead in disguise. Which would be even more troubling. I would never put it past certain individuals though. It is 2020 afterall.
|
|
|
Post by TugPhase on Oct 10, 2020 19:43:59 GMT
Yeah obviously but I can’t think why any Rovers supporter would want our manager and therefore the club to fail. I suppose there probably is the odd one who isn’t right in the head and seriously has mental health problems but generally clubs supporters want their team to win otherwise surely they aren’t supporters. Perhaps anyone on here who wants the club to fail is not a Rovers supporter and is a Shithead in disguise. Which would be even more troubling. I would never put it past certain individuals though. It is 2020 afterall. Completely agree. People seem desperate for him to fail and are itching to bash their keyboard as quickly as they can. I've come to the conclusion though that some people just enjoy moaning, genuinely that's where they get the most pleasure. There's already plenty since full time today. I just try to take it with a pinch of salt.
|
|
|
Post by socrates on Oct 10, 2020 20:08:28 GMT
When the team are doing badly consistently the doubters pipe up sure. But isn’t that human nature ? It’s the same at every club. If your team is consistently getting beaten for a long time and only 2 wins in that time is it really wrong to doubt the ability of the manager or of the players or coaching staff or even all of those ? Two wins since Christmas up until this time last week was unbelievable bad form I don’t think any Rovers fan complaining about that was in the wrong. On the other hand our fans just like all other fans get carried away with a good bit of form, Tutonda plays well for a couple of games - hes Premier league quality , suddenly all the loyal Gasheads who have been paying their hard earned money to support the team and pulling their hair out were wrong ? No they were right and now they’re relived that we’ve picked up in the last two games at last.
|
|
|
Post by socrates on Oct 10, 2020 20:30:55 GMT
Comments like “ that will shut the moaners up for a bit“ Well yeah it will because after seeing our season derail and then the terrible first few performances of the season the moaners , or at least the overwhelming majority of them won’t have anything to moan about because they’ll be happy. Obviously. The “ that will shut the moaners up “ comments are a bit dark in a way I think. It’s almost saying that’ll teach you for being disgruntled at poor performances see now we’ve won a couple you can shut up and if you don’t shut up and say everything is suddenly rosey then your a shithead or you want us to lose. We pay our money and we’ll be supporting the club long after Garner and his players have left the club, if we’re unhappy with performances or certain players or styles of play we’re all entitled to our opinions and forums like this are what they’re here for. It doesn’t mean we want Rovers to do badly. I still don’t think many if any genuine Gasheads want Rovers to fail / Garner to fail.
|
|
|
Post by socrates on Oct 10, 2020 20:38:36 GMT
The problem is that there is a minority of "fans" who want him to fail -so based on this they want the Gas to lose-just crazy-anybody can see what Garner is trying to achieve but he needs the time.GC will soon be sacked by Mansfield so no doubt they will put up the banners to bring him back. If that happens then happy we are not allowed in the stadium to watch his style of football. All i would ask of Garner/Wael is get another forward and who can score goals as that's all we need to be a good side with a good depth of young talent Hanlan has got 2 and gets in to goal scoring positions he might not get 20+ this season but i reckon he’ll get 12-15. It would be lovely to bring in a 20+ goal striker but it’s easy to say that’s “ all we need” Don’t you think Garner and Wael would like that too ?
|
|
|
Post by yetigas on Oct 10, 2020 22:12:11 GMT
The problem is that there is a minority of "fans" who want him to fail -so based on this they want the Gas to lose-just crazy-anybody can see what Garner is trying to achieve but he needs the time.GC will soon be sacked by Mansfield so no doubt they will put up the banners to bring him back. If that happens then happy we are not allowed in the stadium to watch his style of football. All i would ask of Garner/Wael is get another forward and who can score goals as that's all we need to be a good side with a good depth of young talent Fair post as I guess some of that applies to this forum and the fanbase, but it's unpalatable because fans and supporters are not necessarily the same thing. I think we definitely need a proven goalscorer to replace jch. It's based upon prior evidence that when we don't suitably replace, we struggle with relegation. It's a huge risk, because you need someone or some players to step up.. In this period of complacency, the transfer window closes, half decent managers suss out our pattern and it's too late to bring in anyone, injuries and suspension occur....we end up struggling. And relegation beckons. JCH was hardly a 'proven goal scorer when he came to us. In my opinion Hanlon looks a far better all round footballer then JCH. Why don't you think he can replace him? I remember when Jason Roberts joined us he went many games before scoring at all - and he turned out pretty good. Have faith!
|
|
|
Post by wsmjohn on Oct 10, 2020 22:15:11 GMT
Not sure after today's result?
|
|
|
Post by yetigas on Oct 10, 2020 22:23:10 GMT
Been thinking again about the question - should he be sacked? then trying to come at the whole situation from a different stand point. BG is young, v young as a manager. It's his first step up in the manager role after being described as an excellent coach. The Project may not just be about Rovers bringing in young / lower league potential assets but also to create a blue print for converting young successful coaches into managers. I imagine that there are loads of excellent coaches at premier/championship/aboard who, once the blue print for success is carved out (obviously taking a long time with BG) could offer up great value in the future. I mean it would be great to fully understand 'the project' but imagine for a while that if we manage to convert excellent coaches into managers and young potentialists (not a word) into very talented players (£££s) this could mean that we have a conveyor belt of success and sustainability (of sorts). I understand how bad it is and that its probably all over within the next 8 weeks, but, what if it wasn't. What if, we manage to turn this around and have each 'role' understanding the positions / tactics / style etc - then its a case of bringing new players or coaches in and being trained up in the position or style of the predecessor This would make us a very attractive proposition for talented coaches and players alike. Also with a network reaching far and wide brimming with young talent. Just a thought. Turning it around would be akin to us winning matches and playing well within them. I would love to have this again. We have had it before, including developing youth players, but some complained about the standard/quality of the football. Again, GNA 1883, it's a thought. A lovely thought, but I think (for me) that's all it will ever remain. I think this might be a classic case of qualifications and badges aren't necessarily more important than experience and knowing how to manage/communicate/read games/inspire and motivate under performing players etc..... perhaps a balance of both....and a raw metaphor that isn't literal translation could be because someone has passed driving test doesn't make them a good driver. Poor, I know but as close a metaphor I can think of. There again, there have been some experienced managers who have been disasters with us. Of course BG was hired with the full knowledge of his CV being based on coaching rather than management, and of course like managers in any industry he will learn from his mistakes and improve. But in my view he has made a very good start in very difficult circumstances (both his family issues and later Covid). He has gathered a good group of players and is gradually getting them to play his way. I guess you are knowledgeable about how football works, and you must know that getting a new group of players up to speed takes time. We will be improving more over the next few weeks, but there will inevitably be some losses along the way. I do hope you are not going to come on here with your anti-BG agenda every time that happens - it gets tedious!
|
|
|
Post by yetigas on Oct 10, 2020 22:26:08 GMT
not sure it proves they know nothing about football, more they are impatient and want results, which is nothing new. Pleased Wael stuck with Ben and showed patience. Clearly not something that our friend o2o2bo2ba would every endorse Unfortunately we've (the general 'we') have become polarised in our stances. A win away to Lincoln after 10 months not winning away appears to have reinforced the BG in stance that they're right. A draw and subsequent loss on penalties a few days before appears to have reinforced the BG out stance that they're right. I'm trying to be objective on what I've seen with my own eyes and not forget. Not forget we were truly dire away to Southend....and more recently, Doncaster amongst other performances. We're all Gas and I still continue to admire the blind loyalty some give by just pushing the 'give it more time' agenda (imo) in denial of evidence before them....hey, today it works, great. I'm happy it worked. The club is bigger than me.. I still think we are in desperate need of a proven goalscorer. A striker. And play him with Hanlan. BG said today we are in profit with his acquisition and release of high earners. Because 2 strikers isn't enough. Imho. Out of interest, what would it take for you to change your opinion on BG? Or is that impossible?
|
|
|
Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 11, 2020 6:05:37 GMT
Turning it around would be akin to us winning matches and playing well within them. I would love to have this again. We have had it before, including developing youth players, but some complained about the standard/quality of the football. Again, GNA 1883, it's a thought. A lovely thought, but I think (for me) that's all it will ever remain. I think this might be a classic case of qualifications and badges aren't necessarily more important than experience and knowing how to manage/communicate/read games/inspire and motivate under performing players etc..... perhaps a balance of both....and a raw metaphor that isn't literal translation could be because someone has passed driving test doesn't make them a good driver. Poor, I know but as close a metaphor I can think of. I do hope you are not going to come on here with your anti-BG agenda every time that happens - it gets tedious! A fair post, the CV qualifications point works both ways, of course it does. I think I'm objective in my posts. I say what I see, sometimes it's popular, sometimes not, but it's just how I see it. Your post chooses to box me in anti-BG agenda, and to some extent I can see why. From my pov it's either lazy or ignited something in you which doesn't take in all of what I've posted. For instance, early in BG reign I gave credit for actually trying TN and making it apparent his type of football wasn't required, and subsequently helped him find a different career path.... something I had previously posted under DC (and possibly contributed to his Gas demise) and GC as criticism. And there have been others, including credit given Northampton and Lincoln matches. But....like I have pointed out before, you can't ignore BG statistics. It's the worst managerial stats in our history. BG has had time, 25 matches and brought in his own staff and now almost two whole transfer windows. It's relegation form. I find that tedious, so it should be highlighted. Folk reset the clock as they like, I'm just saying his record is dire and not good enough. And it's offset by some bizarre excuses that every club and team face intermittently....which kinda insults my intelligence when I was at Southend. I think it's a fair question to ask what would make me back BG. That's a question expanded to everyone, because we're all in different places on this. For me, he took over a team with excellent team spirit, never say die attitude that was 'tedious' to watch. But, we were 4th. If BG can hit the position at least where took the reigns, then I will have no argument that he has brought us up to the standard where we were. I think that's fair enough. You and others may disagree, great, that's what the forum should be about, no matter how tedious...
|
|
|
Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 11, 2020 6:12:58 GMT
Fair post as I guess some of that applies to this forum and the fanbase, but it's unpalatable because fans and supporters are not necessarily the same thing. I think we definitely need a proven goalscorer to replace jch. It's based upon prior evidence that when we don't suitably replace, we struggle with relegation. It's a huge risk, because you need someone or some players to step up.. In this period of complacency, the transfer window closes, half decent managers suss out our pattern and it's too late to bring in anyone, injuries and suspension occur....we end up struggling. And relegation beckons. JCH was hardly a 'proven goal scorer when he came to us. In my opinion Hanlon looks a far better all round footballer then JCH. Why don't you think he can replace him? I remember when Jason Roberts joined us he went many games before scoring at all - and he turned out pretty good. Have faith! Fair post. Not quite the same scenario as jch had Championship experience, so playing at that level and scoring helps. As much as I like Hanlan, and it's a very encouraging start, he still hasn't scored from open play. But I'm sure that will come soon. Faith and hope my friend is all we have left. It's a huge risk not suitably replacing jch. History has taught us that, learn by it and get in someone experienced. While we still have time.
|
|
|
Post by gashead1981 on Oct 11, 2020 7:03:53 GMT
You can’t blame people for wanting a manager out that only won twice is 20 odd games.
I’m pretty sure that many chairman would have sacked Garner last season let alone given him till the opportunity his season.
The pressure was always going to be on BG from the off this year because of this record. I said I would give him 10 games to see what results he was getting and of those 10 he had to win at least for and have 3-4 draws. I modified that view after the Ipswich game where were absolutely diabolical and said he should go. That was mainly because we looked worse than last season with his now his own signings.
After 2 wins, where do I sit now? With all the emotion taken out of it perhaps he should get the 10 games. In the last 2 the fine margins he likes to blame losses on have swung in our direction with 2 pens given that have resulted in us taking the lead in games. We need a solid 2-0 win with both goals coming from open play to affirm we are going forward.
What this does prove though that Wael backs his manager to the nth degree whether it’s in giving him all the opportunity to sort it out or backing with players and staff. Fair play.
|
|
|
Post by bluegas on Oct 11, 2020 7:11:50 GMT
I wouldn't disagree with you, o2. But there's the small matter of (1) finding /identifying such a player ;(2) persuading him to come here. Then pay comes into it - do you destabilise the squad by paying one player far more than the others? And contradict your whole policy on sustainability over the wage bill? Would that it was all so simple.
|
|