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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2021 20:06:39 GMT
The Jacob Blake one was widely discussed elsewhere and from what I read the argument why he shouldn’t have been shot seemed very analogous to the circumstances in which the woman storming the capitol was shot and killed. There was all sorts of nonsense such as “they should have shot him in the leg and incapacitated him!!!1” like it’s an episode of 24 or something. So for me, there are a lot of left wingers who should be condemning the shooting of this woman as it’s the same logic but the logic will be twisted and turned like a Rubik’s cube to justify a totally contrary viewpoint purely because one was a racial minority and the other was an (admittedly batshit) Trump supporter. Honestly mate I don't remember any of it on this forum. Almost certainly there were stupid comments from both sides on other social media sites, but to use OB's comment of "no sympathy" as your basis for the lack lack of sympathy on this forum, then you need to apply the same rules for the death of Jacob Blake - which there was none on here. Can't have it both ways. Pedant’s note it was gastafari who picked up on the no sympathy 😛 My comments are not necessarily aimed at anyone here btw, just generally stating that there are left wingers out there who should condemn the Babbitt shooting because in the interests of fairness and balance they’ve both been shot in cold blood and it seems like hypocrisy to condemn one yet be so silent on the other because the skin colour is different and it doesn’t tick boxes on the woke agenda. No hypocrisy from me though because I support the shooting of both because as I’ve explained above if you give the police problems (conceal your hands/climb through windows on government property) you’re asking for it. Although it’s as well to refer back to the tweet you posted which sparked my initial comment- arguing that BLM would be treated differently has to be taken in context that the police did start shooting (eventually) so white privilege only got these people so far. The selfies thing is without doubt an absolute disgrace, perhaps being kind the lack of police numbers meant they had to play up to the idiots initially to defuse the situation? But even then why the numbers were so low and support from the national guard turned considering the protest seems to have been known about in advance is a serious question that needs answering. |
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Post by Gassy on Jan 10, 2021 20:08:53 GMT
Well great, but I haven't. I'm comparing the George Floyd death in which you seem to have no problem with due to his past. Why is that? But sure, if you want to talk about the other deaths - lets. Breonna Taylor was innocent and in bed and was accidentally killed by police in her apartment. Don't you have sympathy for her? How far does your felon rule reach, if they're involved with a felon they also deserve to die? Jacob Blake - I don't remember outrage on here at all. In fact, I don't remember the outrage on here about either of them. I remember George Floyd though, which you've just painted with the same brush. Why is that? It's pretty astonishing that you compare a rioter storming capitol building with an innocent woman at home & someone being suffocated to death on the floor. Do you honestly think the same? It's just the Hypocrisy. I've never once said that anybodys deserved to die or that they shouldn't get sympathy. I'm just stating that these people whether it be George Floyd, Breonna Taylor or Jacob Blake put themselves in these positions. George Floyd had commited a crime and was resisting arrest, he was struggling to breath when he was detained in the car, but he refused to stay in the car and got out, hence the Police restraining him on the floor. Breonna Taylor knew her boyfriend was a drug dealer and had fire arm offences, he fired at the Police they fired back, unfortunately she died, but it was the Police who got the brunt of it, as you well know the narrative was yet another Black victim at the hands of the Police Jacob Blake - Was waving a knife around abd was told to drop it several times before he was shot. The Woman in the Capitol Building is no different, she was a criminal who was tre****sing, was asked to get down, she didn't and was shot. There is no real difference for me, also it just highlights how wrong that Twitter post was, as a White Woman was shot dead in the Capitol Building. There were also Black, Mexican and Latino people who were involved in the "Storming" of the building too. George Floyd was suspected of using a counterfeit $20 note. Breonna was innocent and her mistake was being in a relationship with someone. Bring in a lady knowingly breaking the law and storming the capitol. Yep, all the same crimes. Especially Breonna - if you think that’s the same level of any of the deaths then something is seriously wrong with you. |
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Post by Gassy on Jan 10, 2021 20:13:13 GMT
Honestly mate I don't remember any of it on this forum. Almost certainly there were stupid comments from both sides on other social media sites, but to use OB's comment of "no sympathy" as your basis for the lack lack of sympathy on this forum, then you need to apply the same rules for the death of Jacob Blake - which there was none on here. Can't have it both ways. Pedant’s note it was gastafari who picked up on the no sympathy 😛 My comments are not necessarily aimed at anyone here btw, just generally stating that there are left wingers out there who should condemn the Babbitt shooting because in the interests of fairness and balance they’ve both been shot in cold blood and it seems like hypocrisy to condemn one yet be so silent on the other because the skin colour is different and it doesn’t tick boxes on the woke agenda. No hypocrisy from me though because I support the shooting of both because as I’ve explained above if you give the police problems (conceal your hands/climb through windows on government property) you’re asking for it. Although it’s as well to refer back to the tweet you posted which sparked my initial comment- arguing that BLM would be treated differently has to be taken in context that the police did start shooting (eventually) so white privilege only got these people so far. The selfies thing is without doubt an absolute disgrace, perhaps being kind the lack of police numbers meant they had to play up to the idiots initially to defuse the situation? But even then why the numbers were so low and support from the national guard turned considering the protest seems to have been known about in advance is a serious question that needs answering. I don’t think it has anything to do with her colour skin. The difference is the crime. Notice I’m not arguing about Jacob, only George Floyd and Breonna. The problem is people trying to make all 4 deaths the same issue, when they’re clearly not. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2021 20:15:57 GMT
Well great, but I haven't. I'm comparing the George Floyd death in which you seem to have no problem with due to his past. Why is that? But sure, if you want to talk about the other deaths - lets. Breonna Taylor was innocent and in bed and was accidentally killed by police in her apartment. Don't you have sympathy for her? How far does your felon rule reach, if they're involved with a felon they also deserve to die? Jacob Blake - I don't remember outrage on here at all. In fact, I don't remember the outrage on here about either of them. I remember George Floyd though, which you've just painted with the same brush. Why is that? It's pretty astonishing that you compare a rioter storming capitol building with an innocent woman at home & someone being suffocated to death on the floor. Do you honestly think the same? It's just the Hypocrisy. I've never once said that anybodys deserved to die or that they shouldn't get sympathy. I'm just stating that these people whether it be George Floyd, Breonna Taylor or Jacob Blake put themselves in these positions. George Floyd had commited a crime and was resisting arrest, he was struggling to breath when he was detained in the car, but he refused to stay in the car and got out, hence the Police restraining him on the floor. Breonna Taylor knew her boyfriend was a drug dealer and had fire arm offences, he fired at the Police they fired back, unfortunately she died, but it was the Police who got the brunt of it, as you well know the narrative was yet another Black victim at the hands of the Police Jacob Blake - Was waving a knife around abd was told to drop it several times before he was shot. The Woman in the Capitol Building is no different, she was a criminal who was tre****sing, was asked to get down, she didn't and was shot. There is no real difference for me, also it just highlights how wrong that Twitter post was, as a White Woman was shot dead in the Capitol Building. There were also Black, Mexican and Latino people who were involved in the "Storming" of the building too. I agree with the general gist although I should state that I don’t think there is any serious justification for George Floyd’s death- he was allegedly breaking the law via counterfeit money but his risk to life (as far as I understand) was totally negligible. Breonna Taylor didn’t deserve to die based on her associations but I’m not convinced that wasn’t just a huge unfortunate accident based on things Ive read. I’ll be interested to hear what the facts presented in court are when the officers face trial (I believe they have been charged). Agreed on the rest. Nobody should be shot if you are unarmed and behaving however in a state like America where everyone has the right to bear arms if you f**k about then you’re asking for it. |
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Post by Gastafari on Jan 10, 2021 20:22:39 GMT
It's just the Hypocrisy. I've never once said that anybodys deserved to die or that they shouldn't get sympathy. I'm just stating that these people whether it be George Floyd, Breonna Taylor or Jacob Blake put themselves in these positions. George Floyd had commited a crime and was resisting arrest, he was struggling to breath when he was detained in the car, but he refused to stay in the car and got out, hence the Police restraining him on the floor. Breonna Taylor knew her boyfriend was a drug dealer and had fire arm offences, he fired at the Police they fired back, unfortunately she died, but it was the Police who got the brunt of it, as you well know the narrative was yet another Black victim at the hands of the Police Jacob Blake - Was waving a knife around abd was told to drop it several times before he was shot. The Woman in the Capitol Building is no different, she was a criminal who was tre****sing, was asked to get down, she didn't and was shot. There is no real difference for me, also it just highlights how wrong that Twitter post was, as a White Woman was shot dead in the Capitol Building. There were also Black, Mexican and Latino people who were involved in the "Storming" of the building too. George Floyd was suspected of using a counterfeit $20 note. Breonna was innocent and her mistake was being in a relationship with someone. Bring in a lady knowingly breaking the law and storming the capitol. Yep, all the same crimes. Especially Breonna - if you think that’s the same level of any of the deaths then something is seriously wrong with you. George Floyd was knowingly breaking the law which he consistently did for decades. Breonna Taylor knowingly lived with a person who was wanted for drug and gun offences, of course she shouldn't of died, I think this case is sad, but the Police got the brunt off it, and the narrative was Police brutality when that had nothing to do with it. Jacob Blake was also knowingly commiting a crime. They were all knowingly doing it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2021 20:33:52 GMT
I have seen a lot of this BS emanating from the States over the last few days. Now being repeated on here.
There is no equivalence to the plight of the people killed by the police when undertaking call outs. Those police were undertaking a bona fide police action investigating a call out or enforcement action. Those individuals ended up dead because of police incompetence and or deliberate acts of violence.
In Babbitt's case the armed officers were defending elected representatives of State, in a highly charged and chaotic situation. She herself made that choice to act as she did. To join an insurrection, where an officer had already been fatally injured, and proceeded to try and climb through a broken window.
What did she think would happen.
There is absolutely no equivalence with BLM demonstrations nor the situation of the dead individuals mentioned here.
All this is, at least in the States, to draw attention away, to try and dilute the consequences, if what the absolute lunatics did.
Egged on by a complete lunatic in the White House, a man who instigated insurrection against the institutions of his own government.
It's Treason pure and simple.
I hope they throw the book at him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2021 20:40:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2021 20:41:47 GMT
Watch that and tell me you don't understand why the officer opened fire on Babbitt.
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Post by yattongas on Jan 10, 2021 20:54:04 GMT
I have seen a lot of this BS emanating from the States over the last few days. Now being repeated on here. There is no equivalence to the plight of the people killed by the police when undertaking call outs. Those police were undertaking a bona fide police action investigating a call out or enforcement action. Those individuals ended up dead because of police incompetence and or deliberate acts of violence. In Babbitt's case the armed officers were defending elected representatives of State, in a highly charged and chaotic situation. She herself made that choice to act as she did. To join an insurrection, where an officer had already been fatally injured, and proceeded to try and climb through a broken window. What did she think would happen. There is absolutely no equivalence with BLM demonstrations nor the situation of the dead individuals mentioned here. All this is, at least in the States, to draw attention away, to try and dilute the consequences, if what the absolute lunatics did. Egged on by a complete lunatic in the White House, a man who instigated insurrection against the institutions of his own government. It's Treason pure and simple. I hope they throw the book at him. Spot on , Oldie . |
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Post by Gassy on Jan 10, 2021 21:36:21 GMT
George Floyd was suspected of using a counterfeit $20 note. Breonna was innocent and her mistake was being in a relationship with someone. Bring in a lady knowingly breaking the law and storming the capitol. Yep, all the same crimes. Especially Breonna - if you think that’s the same level of any of the deaths then something is seriously wrong with you. George Floyd was knowingly breaking the law which he consistently did for decades. Breonna Taylor knowingly lived with a person who was wanted for drug and gun offences, of course she shouldn't of died, I think this case is sad, but the Police got the brunt off it, and the narrative was Police brutality when that had nothing to do with it. Jacob Blake was also knowingly commiting a crime. They were all knowingly doing it. Ok then, clearly we're going round in circles. If you some how think a rioter being killed is the same as someone in bed who did nothing wrong, then something really is wrong in society. I'm up for a debate but if you're just going to start blaming the victim for getting killed by police because she had a boyfriend then there is no point even discussing the issue. What next those who died during 9/11 knew a terrorist attack could happen to the US one day, by association - they knew what they were doing. How far do we keep going? |
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Post by Gastafari on Jan 10, 2021 22:42:51 GMT
George Floyd was knowingly breaking the law which he consistently did for decades. Breonna Taylor knowingly lived with a person who was wanted for drug and gun offences, of course she shouldn't of died, I think this case is sad, but the Police got the brunt off it, and the narrative was Police brutality when that had nothing to do with it. Jacob Blake was also knowingly commiting a crime. They were all knowingly doing it. Ok then, clearly we're going round in circles. If you some how think a rioter being killed is the same as someone in bed who did nothing wrong, then something really is wrong in society. I'm up for a debate but if you're just going to start blaming the victim for getting killed by police because she had a boyfriend then there is no point even discussing the issue. What next those who died during 9/11 knew a terrorist attack could happen to the US one day, by association - they knew what they were doing. How far do we keep going? I haven't blamed anybody. Again just pointing out the hypocrisy. Black people commit crimes and unfortunately somebody gets hurt or killed, then its always Police brutality. White Woman commits crime and gets killed, its meh, shouldn't of been there, no sympathy. Yeah, we are going round in circles. In America if you commit crimes, carry weapons or resist instructions in a society where part of their culture is around Fire Arms including the Police Force and other authorities then unfortunately people will get shot, get hurt or die. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jan 10, 2021 22:46:43 GMT
Ok then, clearly we're going round in circles. If you some how think a rioter being killed is the same as someone in bed who did nothing wrong, then something really is wrong in society. I'm up for a debate but if you're just going to start blaming the victim for getting killed by police because she had a boyfriend then there is no point even discussing the issue. What next those who died during 9/11 knew a terrorist attack could happen to the US one day, by association - they knew what they were doing. How far do we keep going? I haven't blamed anybody. Again just pointing out the hypocrisy. Black people commit crimes and unfortunately somebody gets hurt or killed, then its always Police brutality. White Woman commits crime and gets killed, its meh, shouldn't of been there, no sympathy. Yeah, we are going round in circles. In America if you commit crimes, carry weapons or resist instructions in a society where part of their culture is around Fire Arms including the Police Force and other authorities then unfortunately people will get shot, get hurt or die. Its not because she committed a crime that I have no sympathy. Its because she jumped towards a loaded gun pointed at her. You see the difference right? Its nothing to do with crime. |
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Post by Gassy on Jan 10, 2021 23:26:06 GMT
Ok then, clearly we're going round in circles. If you some how think a rioter being killed is the same as someone in bed who did nothing wrong, then something really is wrong in society. I'm up for a debate but if you're just going to start blaming the victim for getting killed by police because she had a boyfriend then there is no point even discussing the issue. What next those who died during 9/11 knew a terrorist attack could happen to the US one day, by association - they knew what they were doing. How far do we keep going? I haven't blamed anybody. Again just pointing out the hypocrisy. Black people commit crimes and unfortunately somebody gets hurt or killed, then its always Police brutality. White Woman commits crime and gets killed, its meh, shouldn't of been there, no sympathy. Yeah, we are going round in circles. In America if you commit crimes, carry weapons or resist instructions in a society where part of their culture is around Fire Arms including the Police Force and other authorities then unfortunately people will get shot, get hurt or die. But you pretty much have blamed them. Instead of looking at police killing people, you've suggested that the victims should know better: "They knew what they were doing". Society is backwards if we think like that. It's the equivalent of blaming a woman for being sexually harassed because of what she's wearing. You say you're pointing out the hypocrisy, but please point out the hypocrite on this forum. As you've based much of your argument on OB's comment "no sympathy", we can only assume that the hypocrites are on this forum. So who has said something to make them such a hypocrite? "In America if you commit crimes, carry weapons or resist instructions" - So remind me in this list what Breonna did here that means she should die at the hands of the police? The funny thing is that I'm not even saying it was police brutality, I'm saying that this white lady being killer is not the same as George of Breonna. Let's try it from another angle. Black people die during riots all the time, right? This is pretty much a fact. When black people die during a riot, how many of them do we discuss in depth? How many protests are there about the individual killing? Sure police brutality is mentioned (as it's been mentioned on the capitol riots), but that will always happen when police use any force. The fact is that those who die whilst rioting are rarely talked about because guess what, a police officer asked them to stop with a gun pointed at them and they continued. What you're comparing as the same thing, is a white woman who rioted and attacked the government, police, secret service (you name it) and was killed, with an innocent lady who was asleep at home and shot. Are you honestly saying that's the same thing? Please answer clearly because I really struggle to see how someone thinks they're the same. |
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Post by Gastafari on Jan 10, 2021 23:54:50 GMT
I haven't blamed anybody. Again just pointing out the hypocrisy. Black people commit crimes and unfortunately somebody gets hurt or killed, then its always Police brutality. White Woman commits crime and gets killed, its meh, shouldn't of been there, no sympathy. Yeah, we are going round in circles. In America if you commit crimes, carry weapons or resist instructions in a society where part of their culture is around Fire Arms including the Police Force and other authorities then unfortunately people will get shot, get hurt or die. But you pretty much have blamed them. Instead of looking at police killing people, you've suggested that the victims should know better: "They knew what they were doing". Society is backwards if we think like that. It's the equivalent of blaming a woman for being sexually harassed because of what she's wearing. You say you're pointing out the hypocrisy, but please point out the hypocrite on this forum. As you've based much of your argument on OB's comment "no sympathy", we can only assume that the hypocrites are on this forum. So who has said something to make them such a hypocrite? "In America if you commit crimes, carry weapons or resist instructions" - So remind me in this list what Breonna did here that means she should die at the hands of the police? The funny thing is that I'm not even saying it was police brutality, I'm saying that this white lady being killer is not the same as George of Breonna. Let's try it from another angle. Black people die during riots all the time, right? This is pretty much a fact. When black people die during a riot, how many of them do we discuss in depth? How many protests are there about the individual killing? Sure police brutality is mentioned (as it's been mentioned on the capitol riots), but that will always happen when police use any force. The fact is that those who die whilst rioting are rarely talked about because guess what, a police officer asked them to stop with a gun pointed at them and they continued. What you're comparing as the same thing, is a white woman who rioted and attacked the government, police, secret service (you name it) and was killed, with an innocent lady who was asleep at home and shot. Are you honestly saying that's the same thing? Please answer clearly because I really struggle to see how someone thinks they're the same. You're right Breonna Taylor shouldn't of died, but she didn't die because of the actions of the Police, she died because her boyfriend started shooting at Police. Should the Police of just let him fire at will until he killed them? They fired back and unfortunately bullets hit her and she lost her life. She died at the hands of her criminal partner. Lets get it right. I admit the Breonna Taylor case is slightly different as she was killed, not her boyfriend. But George Floyd, Jacob Blake and the Woman in the Capital Building were all killed or shot by Law Enforcement for committing crimes, resisting arrest or not following instructions. Most cases in which people who are killed by Law Enforcement, as rare as it is, are the same. They commit a crime,resist arrest or dont follow clear instruction. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2021 8:54:25 GMT
Lots of off duty police officers being identified as rioters, what a surprise.
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Post by baggins on Jan 11, 2021 9:09:33 GMT
Lots of off duty police officers being identified as rioters, what a surprise. Black or White? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2021 9:45:04 GMT
Lots of off duty police officers being identified as rioters, what a surprise. Black or White? Red white & blue. reut.rs/3brxIeb |
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Post by baggins on Jan 11, 2021 9:54:12 GMT
Sack them, take away their pensions. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Jan 11, 2021 9:58:48 GMT
Lots of off duty police officers being identified as rioters, what a surprise. Lots? The article from Reuters states single figures. I know you could extrapolate from that but still an assumption. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2021 10:20:31 GMT
Lots of off duty police officers being identified as rioters, what a surprise. Lots? The article from Reuters states single figures. I know you could extrapolate from that but still an assumption. Developing story so numbers could increase. There have been reports of white supremacists within the US police forces since forever. |
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