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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 10:21:27 GMT
Marx is an antidote to expoititive capitalism. Marx was in awe of the way capitalism flourished as an economic system, but saw that the excesses of capital meant that the majority of people are exploited and kept poor, in order for the wealthy class to thrive. Marxs theory led to Russia and China lifting the masses out of poverty. Which is why he is still relevant today. So few people have read Capital, most just buy in to cold war propaganda as it suits the capitalist narrative. Marx offered an antidote to exploitative capitalism. But the antidote transferred the exploitation from economic power to state power and has been equally corrosive. He didn't intend for that to happen but his faith in humanity was utopian. What we must have are "checks & balances", which we absolutely do not have right now. The current "corporate" exploitation justified by a false meritocratic argument, when in fact it's the Tyranny of Merit, to quote a recent excellent book. www.penguin.co.uk/books/313112/the-tyranny-of-merit/9780241407592
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 10:23:21 GMT
Marx is an antidote to expoititive capitalism. Marx was in awe of the way capitalism flourished as an economic system, but saw that the excesses of capital meant that the majority of people are exploited and kept poor, in order for the wealthy class to thrive. Marxs theory led to Russia and China lifting the masses out of poverty. Which is why he is still relevant today. So few people have read Capital, most just buy in to cold war propaganda as it suits the capitalist narrative. Britain since 2007 would prove Marx right because it has been busy through the joint policies of austerity and propping up of the housing market in creating an underclass (mostly millennials) for whom wages are stagnant and living costs just to keep a roof over their head ever more exorbitant while profits go more into the pockets of the rich than ever before. The media had also played a part in putting the public against each other with it’s demonising of those who need state aid to survive because the NPM is counter productive in producing a socially mobile society. It’s all a load of bollocks and the bastards have even locked the gates now and taken away freedom of movement so some of the future generation are locked in like serfs.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 10:29:08 GMT
I also find it a bit...off when you get people like nobby who have packed up and decided to leave our economy pontificate to us about the way the U.K. is run and the Conservative party when they don’t live here and don’t have to deal with the bollocks that comes with it. The thing is we are still affected by what ever government is in power by way of pensions, interest rates, FTSE performance etc. Just because we live abroad there are still various UK taxes that we are subject to. We still have a right to vote in the UK(for a max of 15 years) abroad. So yes we all have a right to a say how the UK is run. Indeed, Apart from the fact that the Government does not dictate interest rates (thank God), does directly dictate the FTSE which, let's be honest, in the 100 index is more influenced by international factors by the nature of the corporations therein. I presume your pension is primarily private, which would then be market linked. So in reality your vote would only count on social and ideological grounds, issues that do not affect you, living in the EU as you do. I think that's right.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 10:30:58 GMT
Marx is an antidote to expoititive capitalism. Marx was in awe of the way capitalism flourished as an economic system, but saw that the excesses of capital meant that the majority of people are exploited and kept poor, in order for the wealthy class to thrive. Marxs theory led to Russia and China lifting the masses out of poverty. Which is why he is still relevant today. So few people have read Capital, most just buy in to cold war propaganda as it suits the capitalist narrative. Britain since 2007 would prove Marx right because it has been busy through the joint policies of austerity and propping up of the housing market in creating an underclass (mostly millennials) for whom wages are stagnant and living costs just to keep a roof over their head ever more exorbitant while profits go more into the pockets of the rich than ever before. The media had also played a part in putting the public against each other with it’s demonising of those who need state aid to survive because the NPM is counter productive in producing a socially mobile society. It’s all a load of bollocks and the bastards have even locked the gates now and taken away freedom of movement so some of the future generation are locked in like serfs. You sound angry 365.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 10:32:02 GMT
Marx is an antidote to expoititive capitalism. Marx was in awe of the way capitalism flourished as an economic system, but saw that the excesses of capital meant that the majority of people are exploited and kept poor, in order for the wealthy class to thrive. Marxs theory led to Russia and China lifting the masses out of poverty. Which is why he is still relevant today. So few people have read Capital, most just buy in to cold war propaganda as it suits the capitalist narrative. Marx offered an antidote to exploitative capitalism. But the antidote transferred the exploitation from economic power to state power and has been equally corrosive. He didn't intend for that to happen but his faith in humanity was utopian. What we must have are "checks & balances", which we absolutely do not have right now. The current "corporate" exploitation justified by a false meritocratic argument, when in fact it's the Tyranny of Merit, to quote a recent excellent book. www.penguin.co.uk/books/313112/the-tyranny-of-merit/9780241407592Interesting, I’ll have a read of that. With all due respect to francegas I’m sick of hearing about how it’s all about just working hard. It harks to a bygone era. If you’re a millennial from an under-privileged background life is hard work just to stay afloat if you can’t get on the housing ladder and are stuck paying 50%+ of your wage on rent. And it’s only going to get tougher for their kids.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 10:37:36 GMT
Marx offered an antidote to exploitative capitalism. But the antidote transferred the exploitation from economic power to state power and has been equally corrosive. He didn't intend for that to happen but his faith in humanity was utopian. What we must have are "checks & balances", which we absolutely do not have right now. The current "corporate" exploitation justified by a false meritocratic argument, when in fact it's the Tyranny of Merit, to quote a recent excellent book. www.penguin.co.uk/books/313112/the-tyranny-of-merit/9780241407592Interesting, I’ll have a read of that. With all due respect to francegas I’m sick of hearing about how it’s all about just working hard. It harks to a bygone era. If you’re a millennial from an under-privileged background life is hard work just to stay afloat if you can’t get on the housing ladder and are stuck paying 50%+ of your wage on rent. And it’s only going to get tougher for their kids. Yes I understand you. Ignoring international freedom of movement, one of the biggest barriers to security and internal social mobility is affordable housing. The Tories killed that and Blair / Brown did not have the bollox to sort it. Shame on them. This lot would rather shoot their own head off, or a Grouse, than spread wealth by building affordable housing.
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Post by francegas on Oct 26, 2020 10:42:55 GMT
France a socialist country...Do me a favour. Are you telling me theres no privately owned businesses in France. In fact they fully support and encourage it.In fact name 3 or 4 countries in the world that you class as socialist that follow 100% of your socialist principles. Suggest you calm down and re-read my post as you’ve sent 2 posts to this. I have never said anything about privately owned businesses in France, you’ve just made that up yourself. So no, I am not telling you that. I also do not need to list any countries that follow 100% ‘of my socialist values’ - seeming as I have never claimed that I am a socialist, nor that there are any countries that follow 100% socialism. I also did not ask, nor need your justification of why you live in France. I have seen your other post, I’m fully aware of your situation and I do not believe that anyone here needs to justify a reasoning. The point I was saying, if you read my post again, is that France is probably one of the most socialist countries in Europe, perhaps that’s changed, but no doubt you’re living and enjoying life in a left country, whilst supporting and voting right values. I find this odd. I can only assume that you enjoy living in the left sided country - so I find it strange that someone would then vote for right wing, when they’ve already admitted their life is much better and healthier, without that lifestyle. That is my point, nothing else. Apologies for any confusion. My Apologies Gassy. I just don't see France as a socialist country that follow socialist principles. I see socialism as a concept that has not been fully tried tested and successful anywhere. If it were so great why are there no "real" socalist countries today. ( que a barrage of insults from others). I do enjoy my life style but "socialist" or left wing France hasn't given me that I got that opportunity from the UK. As I've said the state of France has not provided us with €1 of help . During lockdown our income here was €0 because my wife despite working for 12 years paying into the system and paying all her taxes "didn't qualify" due to the type of contract she had with the (Governments) Education Nationale. How is that looking after residents. When we moved to France the President was Nicolas Sarkozy who presided under the UMP party of the centre right. Again Gassy apologies didn't mean to offend you.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 10:44:06 GMT
Marx offered an antidote to exploitative capitalism. But the antidote transferred the exploitation from economic power to state power and has been equally corrosive. He didn't intend for that to happen but his faith in humanity was utopian. What we must have are "checks & balances", which we absolutely do not have right now. The current "corporate" exploitation justified by a false meritocratic argument, when in fact it's the Tyranny of Merit, to quote a recent excellent book. www.penguin.co.uk/books/313112/the-tyranny-of-merit/9780241407592Interesting, I’ll have a read of that. With all due respect to francegas I’m sick of hearing about how it’s all about just working hard. It harks to a bygone era. If you’re a millennial from an under-privileged background life is hard work just to stay afloat if you can’t get on the housing ladder and are stuck paying 50%+ of your wage on rent. And it’s only going to get tougher for their kids. This is a great source for books, if you can't find print versions b-ok.cc/
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 10:47:33 GMT
Britain since 2007 would prove Marx right because it has been busy through the joint policies of austerity and propping up of the housing market in creating an underclass (mostly millennials) for whom wages are stagnant and living costs just to keep a roof over their head ever more exorbitant while profits go more into the pockets of the rich than ever before. The media had also played a part in putting the public against each other with it’s demonising of those who need state aid to survive because the NPM is counter productive in producing a socially mobile society. It’s all a load of bollocks and the bastards have even locked the gates now and taken away freedom of movement so some of the future generation are locked in like serfs. You sound angry 365. I am! I’m sick of the lack of compassion in this country from those who have “made it” because they were around when it was easier to “make it” and who have no sympathy for what a struggle life is in the modern era where jobs and housing are very insecure. Not only that they vote to make things even worse. I posted the data up thread that shows that millennials have it worse than their parents. Inequality is rampant and it’s fuelled by government policy. CV and Brexit are going to make it even worse. In some ways I’m lucky, I smelled which way the wind was blowing a while back so I’ve taken care not to bring kids into this sh** show so at least I am only responsible for myself because that’s hard enough these days with what it costs me just to live never mind actually save or keep myself entertained and I’m also lucky that I went to uni just before student fees got ramped up on steroids. I’ve got a few quid in the bank after years and years of saving, nowhere near enough for a house deposit but it could all be wiped out on CV if I lose my job. I feel so sorry for the kids coming through now who don’t have anything, at the mercy of the most heartless Tory government we’ve ever seen with mass unemployment and Brexit round the corner. What hope have they got? They are our future tax payers too- working to top up the pensions of the people who put them in this sh**. There should be a lot more anger than there currently is. The French wouldn’t stand for it.
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Oct 26, 2020 10:48:38 GMT
Let’s be honest, we could do with some sort of revolution/uprising in the UK
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 10:49:40 GMT
Marx is an antidote to expoititive capitalism. Marx was in awe of the way capitalism flourished as an economic system, but saw that the excesses of capital meant that the majority of people are exploited and kept poor, in order for the wealthy class to thrive. Marxs theory led to Russia and China lifting the masses out of poverty. Which is why he is still relevant today. So few people have read Capital, most just buy in to cold war propaganda as it suits the capitalist narrative. Britain since 2007 would prove Marx right because it has been busy through the joint policies of austerity and propping up of the housing market in creating an underclass (mostly millennials) for whom wages are stagnant and living costs just to keep a roof over their head ever more exorbitant while profits go more into the pockets of the rich than ever before. The media had also played a part in putting the public against each other with it’s demonising of those who need state aid to survive because the NPM is counter productive in producing a socially mobile society. It’s all a load of bollocks and the bastards have even locked the gates now and taken away freedom of movement so some of the future generation are locked in like serfs. The housing market deserves its own thread. A rentier class is being created purposefully by the housing crisis and landlords around the world and it's going to have huge implications.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 10:57:37 GMT
Interesting, I’ll have a read of that. With all due respect to francegas I’m sick of hearing about how it’s all about just working hard. It harks to a bygone era. If you’re a millennial from an under-privileged background life is hard work just to stay afloat if you can’t get on the housing ladder and are stuck paying 50%+ of your wage on rent. And it’s only going to get tougher for their kids. Yes I understand you. Ignoring international freedom of movement, one of the biggest barriers to security and internal social mobility is affordable housing. The Tories killed that and Blair / Brown did not have the bollox to sort it. Shame on them. This lot would rather shoot their own head off, or a Grouse, than spread wealth by building affordable housing. Yes because it’s counter intuitive to their ideology, they don’t want to reduce demand by improving supply. I’m reading a good book by Danny Dorling about the importance of housing to the British and it gives a damning analysis of how the accessibility of housing has changed since the coalition government. Enacting policy to artificially boost house prices and the private rental sector. It’s patently obvious the sort of social problems that that would create.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 11:01:17 GMT
Britain since 2007 would prove Marx right because it has been busy through the joint policies of austerity and propping up of the housing market in creating an underclass (mostly millennials) for whom wages are stagnant and living costs just to keep a roof over their head ever more exorbitant while profits go more into the pockets of the rich than ever before. The media had also played a part in putting the public against each other with it’s demonising of those who need state aid to survive because the NPM is counter productive in producing a socially mobile society. It’s all a load of bollocks and the bastards have even locked the gates now and taken away freedom of movement so some of the future generation are locked in like serfs. The housing market deserves its own thread. A rentier class is being created purposefully by the housing crisis and landlords around the world and it's going to have huge implications. Exactly. It’s policy. It’s by design. Look at Jenrick giving the green light for 1,500 luxury apartments on the isle of dogs which was against their own advisers advice because they should be building affordable/social housing. Picture the future, who is going to pay the cost of pensioners living in private rents? It’s going to be the tax payer and you’re going to have the likes of francegas renting out their houses to pensioners and complaining bitterly that their tax goes on paying these pensioners rents when the money is going into their back pocket from the public purse. It’s a bubble waiting to happen unless rent caps are introduced and it’s made more affordable as in other European countries.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 11:06:58 GMT
Just a quick side note. Interesting that we can have a reasoned discussion when those that have left or not participating are not here shouting "lefty" or "Marxist" at every single point.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 11:13:09 GMT
Just a quick side note. Interesting that we can have a reasoned discussion when those that have left or not participating are not here shouting "lefty" or "Marxist" at every single point. Oh, now you've done it!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 11:21:05 GMT
The housing market deserves its own thread. A rentier class is being created purposefully by the housing crisis and landlords around the world and it's going to have huge implications. Exactly. It’s policy. It’s by design. Look at Jenrick giving the green light for 1,500 luxury apartments on the isle of dogs which was against their own advisers advice because they should be building affordable/social housing. Picture the future, who is going to pay the cost of pensioners living in private rents? It’s going to be the tax payer and you’re going to have the likes of francegas renting out their houses to pensioners and complaining bitterly that their tax goes on paying these pensioners rents when the money is going into their back pocket from the public purse. It’s a bubble waiting to happen unless rent caps are introduced and it’s made more affordable as in other European countries. Big corporations who have taken a hit during the pandemic will now be investing in housing rental properties too, so when there is the inevitable housing crash they will sweep up the defaults and rent them out, reducing privately owned homes and making sure to increase their profits as much as possible. I've lost count of people I know who invest their savings in to buy to let. It's become the main way to make money for retirement and it's a powder keg.
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Post by oldgas on Oct 26, 2020 11:24:22 GMT
Let’s be honest, we could do with some sort of revolution/uprising in the UK 3 pages in and the residents of Marxist Corner plotting a revolution! TV made a sitcom about this back n the 1970’s.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 11:45:11 GMT
Let’s be honest, we could do with some sort of revolution/uprising in the UK 3 pages in and the residents of Marxist Corner plotting a revolution! TV made a sitcom about this back n the 1970’s. Here he is! One of our elites.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 11:49:12 GMT
Exactly. It’s policy. It’s by design. Look at Jenrick giving the green light for 1,500 luxury apartments on the isle of dogs which was against their own advisers advice because they should be building affordable/social housing. Picture the future, who is going to pay the cost of pensioners living in private rents? It’s going to be the tax payer and you’re going to have the likes of francegas renting out their houses to pensioners and complaining bitterly that their tax goes on paying these pensioners rents when the money is going into their back pocket from the public purse. It’s a bubble waiting to happen unless rent caps are introduced and it’s made more affordable as in other European countries. Big corporations who have taken a hit during the pandemic will now be investing in housing rental properties too, so when there is the inevitable housing crash they will sweep up the defaults and rent them out, reducing privately owned homes and making sure to increase their profits as much as possible. I've lost count of people I know who invest their savings in to buy to let. It's become the main way to make money for retirement and it's a powder keg. To be fair Theresa May’s government did put in place policies to make BTL less attractive such as paying capital gains on profits and reducing how easy it was for landlords to evict so it’s not the money printing machine it once was. That’s stopping prospective speculators from getting into the game but it isn’t solving how the likes of Fergus Wilson have swathes of the housing stock in their grip and can lay down arbitrary rules on who lives there. To give you an example of how this has broken Britain if I lose my job because of CV I can’t afford to pay my rent where I am, I have to leave and go somewhere else. I don’t have family I can live with, my friends have no space, social housing is a non-starter because I am a white male ergo not an endangered person. So where do I go? I have to move to a cheap private rent somewhere but how do I do that with no job? The vast majority of private rents do not accept people in receipt of UC. So despite me leaving my previous rentals immaculately and never missing a rent payment I will be locked out of housing and possibly homeless because of the arbitrary rules the private sector can levy and because of a lack of social housing. Makes you proud to be British doesn’t it?
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Post by oldgas on Oct 26, 2020 11:49:54 GMT
3 pages in and the residents of Marxist Corner plotting a revolution! TV made a sitcom about this back n the 1970’s. Here he is! One of our elites. Mate, I’m not getting involved. I take the water and suggest a thread is moved and renamed Marxist Corner and the next thing you’ve started up a thread with that very name. The usual 4 or 5 start ranting and patting each other on the back for their right-on views then you’re suggesting starting a revolution. It cracks me up. Ooh me fookin sides! Please stop!
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