pirate
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Post by pirate on Mar 3, 2021 21:10:31 GMT
But he’s head of recruitment! His job was/Is to target suitable players and to construct a solid balanced team. He’s failed. No, that's the manager's job. He's consistently said that the manager discusses what he's trying to achieve and what kind of player he needs to achieve that, and then Widdrington profiles players who fit this. He then provides lists to the manager to discuss. The process is still driven by the manager. TW is head of recruitment, so will ultimately try to sign whoever the manager decides to pursue. Apart from Timmeh Abraham and Josh Barrett (and maybe others?).
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Post by rovers5charlton5 on Mar 3, 2021 21:11:17 GMT
Why would the club do that, he's good at his job, and a loyal servant. He's implemented systems to minimise poor signings, where we have a better idea of ability, fitness and attitude of players before they sign. He gave Ben Garner exactly what he asked for, so not his fault if some of the signings didn't work out. I personally cannot see Barton and widdrington working together for any length of time , remains to be seen . Utg 💙 You may be right there, it'll depend on whether they stick to clearly defined roles and don't step on each other's toes. At the end of the day, Widdrington is a board member, so the manager would be the one to leave if things don't work out.
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Post by stevek192 on Mar 3, 2021 21:11:56 GMT
I don't think it requires a big clearing out as most of the players in the squad are good players or stand a chance of becoming good players. Nicholson is a class act and Ayunga, Galey and Hanlan could prove to be too.All the players look better under JB.
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Post by rovers5charlton5 on Mar 3, 2021 21:11:58 GMT
No, that's the manager's job. He's consistently said that the manager discusses what he's trying to achieve and what kind of player he needs to achieve that, and then Widdrington profiles players who fit this. He then provides lists to the manager to discuss. The process is still driven by the manager. TW is head of recruitment, so will ultimately try to sign whoever the manager decides to pursue. Apart from Timmeh Abraham and Josh Barrett (and maybe others?). You know this to be true?
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Post by kampucheagas on Mar 3, 2021 21:15:48 GMT
But he’s head of recruitment! His job was/Is to target suitable players and to construct a solid balanced team. He’s failed. No, that's the manager's job. He's consistently said that the manager discusses what he's trying to achieve and what kind of player he needs to achieve that, and then Widdrington profiles players who fit this. He then provides lists to the manager to discuss. The process is still driven by the manager. TW is head of recruitment, so will ultimately try to sign whoever the manager decides to pursue. So you think Widdrington did a good job in putting together his list?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 21:22:41 GMT
He can give advice but it’s still up to the manager to listen. The manager has the final say? Also TWs team give the manager facts and figures and testimonies from other players, coaches, managers etc for the manager to review and assess and make the decisions from. Timmeh Abraham was an example of a Widdrington signing, not a managerial decision. Would be interesting to know how many others there have been in similar circumstances. gaschat.co.uk/post/640016Are we sure or is that speculation? Just because a player was lined up before a manager joined doesn’t mean it was the HoR decision .... could be the previous manager had said we need3d this type of forward, Timmy stats wise etc fitted the bill, a deal was done, the manager leaves and then when the new one joins he’s told about it and decides he’s happy for it still to continue? I don’t know - but I find it difficult to believe that players are signed without the managers consent and are forced on managers.... kind of makes the manager role pointless and redundant as it’s the the HoR recruiting players to fit their agenda, their footballing philosophy, their team formation and dynamics.... the may as well manage as well as recruit - just like the old ways that managers did it 20 years ago.....?
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Post by Gassy on Mar 3, 2021 21:23:25 GMT
No, that's the manager's job. He's consistently said that the manager discusses what he's trying to achieve and what kind of player he needs to achieve that, and then Widdrington profiles players who fit this. He then provides lists to the manager to discuss. The process is still driven by the manager. TW is head of recruitment, so will ultimately try to sign whoever the manager decides to pursue. So you think Widdrington did a good job in putting together his list? Why, have you seen it?
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henry
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Post by henry on Mar 3, 2021 21:25:44 GMT
I know which one I’d want identifying players. Surely it's a team working together, players are identified and watched then, if they are considered suitable, TW attempts to agree contracts with them and also deals with the medicals/contract etc. Are you for real? You replied to my post about blaming Tisdale for not signing a duff striker and said it’s the managers job to sign players!! You took all responsibility away from Widderington!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 21:25:52 GMT
No, that's the manager's job. He's consistently said that the manager discusses what he's trying to achieve and what kind of player he needs to achieve that, and then Widdrington profiles players who fit this. He then provides lists to the manager to discuss. The process is still driven by the manager. TW is head of recruitment, so will ultimately try to sign whoever the manager decides to pursue. So you think Widdrington did a good job in putting together his list? His list is based upon players stats and availability and cost etc? It’s scientific, not based upon opinion.... and that list is likely to contain multiple names from a whole variety of clubs....the manager picks who to go for and in what priority order....
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Post by kampucheagas on Mar 3, 2021 21:28:07 GMT
So you think Widdrington did a good job in putting together his list? Why, have you seen it? I’m simply asking whether we think he’s done a good job or not? I’m presuming the club have signed players related to his list of players, presumably going for his ‘top’ targets. Personally I think our recruitment has been atrocious overall and lacking in any sensible direction in order to become a solid league one club.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 21:30:07 GMT
It would be interesting to understand all those who are ‘blaming’ TW for poor recruitment to put down exactly what they believe the role Head of Recruitment actually covers and then also what they believe the managers role is..... from the way it’s coming across it seems like there is a sentiment that they believe the manager has / has had no involvement in player recruitment at all?
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henry
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Post by henry on Mar 3, 2021 21:31:24 GMT
So you think Widdrington did a good job in putting together his list? His list is based upon players stats and availability and cost etc? It’s scientific, not based upon opinion.... and that list is likely to contain multiple names from a whole variety of clubs....the manager picks who to go for and in what priority order.... Scientific?! Of course it’s opinion based amongst other specifics like can he kick a ball properly. The manager picks a player from the list given if he sees fit if not then he will not give the go ahead for talks, makes common sense.
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Post by Gassy on Mar 3, 2021 21:34:01 GMT
I’m simply asking whether we think he’s done a good job or not? I’m presuming the club have signed players related to his list of players, presumably going for his ‘top’ targets. Personally I think our recruitment has been atrocious overall and lacking in any sensible direction in order to become a solid league one club. The point I'm making is that surely no one can comment on the list TW put together, unless they've seen it. I agree the recruitment has been very poor in the last 12/18 months. It's been off ever since GC left, which makes you wonder - was it the management or TW? Probably the truth lies at both doors tbh.
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Post by rovers5charlton5 on Mar 3, 2021 21:34:39 GMT
No, that's the manager's job. He's consistently said that the manager discusses what he's trying to achieve and what kind of player he needs to achieve that, and then Widdrington profiles players who fit this. He then provides lists to the manager to discuss. The process is still driven by the manager. TW is head of recruitment, so will ultimately try to sign whoever the manager decides to pursue. So you think Widdrington did a good job in putting together his list? Yes,because I rate the technical ability of the current squad compared to previous ones, the thing we're missing is a forward capable of scoring at least 20 goals a season, but that's a difficult signing to achieve, and something the Gas have regularly struggled to do over the years. Look at when Lambert left, we failed to replace him, and the same players who'd looked decent, then looked poor after he left.
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Post by kampucheagas on Mar 3, 2021 21:36:02 GMT
It would be interesting to understand all those who are ‘blaming’ TW for poor recruitment to put down exactly what they believe the role Head of Recruitment actually covers and then also what they believe the managers role is..... from the way it’s coming across it seems like there is a sentiment that they believe the manager has / has had no involvement in player recruitment at all? Garner: Tommy go find me your list of all quick, powerful, tricky left wing backs that will cost very little and loads of potential Tommy: here’s one Mr Garner. It’s got loads of names, and I’ve gone to the trouble of highlighting my particular choices that fit the bill Garner: oh that’s a nice list. I’ll go with the one in green highlighted pen. I like green. Maybe I’ll have the one in orange, too. And keep an eye out for another one just in case. Tommy: That was easy.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Mar 3, 2021 21:38:50 GMT
Apart from Timmeh Abraham and Josh Barrett (and maybe others?). You know this to be true? Yes.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Mar 3, 2021 21:39:46 GMT
Timmeh Abraham was an example of a Widdrington signing, not a managerial decision. Would be interesting to know how many others there have been in similar circumstances. gaschat.co.uk/post/640016Are we sure or is that speculation? Just because a player was lined up before a manager joined doesn’t mean it was the HoR decision .... could be the previous manager had said we need3d this type of forward, Timmy stats wise etc fitted the bill, a deal was done, the manager leaves and then when the new one joins he’s told about it and decides he’s happy for it still to continue? I don’t know - but I find it difficult to believe that players are signed without the managers consent and are forced on managers.... kind of makes the manager role pointless and redundant as it’s the the HoR recruiting players to fit their agenda, their footballing philosophy, their team formation and dynamics.... the may as well manage as well as recruit - just like the old ways that managers did it 20 years ago.....? I'm sure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 21:40:38 GMT
I’m simply asking whether we think he’s done a good job or not? I’m presuming the club have signed players related to his list of players, presumably going for his ‘top’ targets. Personally I think our recruitment has been atrocious overall and lacking in any sensible direction in order to become a solid league one club. His top targets? He doesn’t say which ones are top - he presents the stats and information for others to make the decisions (the manager)... it’s funny how the recruitment is deemed atrocious, especially after a defeat and irrespective of the performances, yet it was lauded in the summer at the time and is silent after a win with players be praised.... are you saying Nicholson, Anssi, McCormick are all bad? Also players like Ehmer, Ozzie, Westbrooke who were all outstanding for their previous clubs are terrible? Ayunga who had hosts of clubs across the EFL leagues and deemed one of the brightest prospects in non league having scored 25 goals and lead his side to the playoffs wasn’t worth a gamble? (Wasn’t it said on this forum that the club should take more gambles on non league players?)..... It’s all TWs fault and nothing to do with the players themselves not performing for whatever reason to the standards expected or they had at their previous club?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 21:43:16 GMT
His list is based upon players stats and availability and cost etc? It’s scientific, not based upon opinion.... and that list is likely to contain multiple names from a whole variety of clubs....the manager picks who to go for and in what priority order.... Scientific?! Of course it’s opinion based amongst other specifics like can he kick a ball properly. The manager picks a player from the list given if he sees fit if not then he will not give the go ahead for talks, makes common sense. I think we are saying the same thing in that ultimately it’s the manager who decides who to pursue or not and it isn’t based upon TW saying that this player should be signed because I think he’s good...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 21:47:48 GMT
Are we sure or is that speculation? Just because a player was lined up before a manager joined doesn’t mean it was the HoR decision .... could be the previous manager had said we need3d this type of forward, Timmy stats wise etc fitted the bill, a deal was done, the manager leaves and then when the new one joins he’s told about it and decides he’s happy for it still to continue? I don’t know - but I find it difficult to believe that players are signed without the managers consent and are forced on managers.... kind of makes the manager role pointless and redundant as it’s the the HoR recruiting players to fit their agenda, their footballing philosophy, their team formation and dynamics.... the may as well manage as well as recruit - just like the old ways that managers did it 20 years ago.....? I'm sure. That’s fair enough but whilst I respect your opinion/view as I believe you may have some involvement in scouting, without backing it up with something that will substantiate that it’s true, it’s hard for me (especially based upon my experience and knowledge of how HoR roles work) to see that it logically could be true?
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