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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 9:26:54 GMT
My understanding of the situation is recruitment is interdependent between (at least) the manager, Head of Recruitment and CEO. The manager outlines his requirements. TW takes that brief and using his team of scouts and whatever databases he uses, will then provide a selection of suitable players to match that brief. The manager then assesses those players to see who he thinks will fit, whether that is playing style wise, personality wise (will he work with me, will he fit in with the other players), will he cost so much I have no budget left for any other positions. The CEO will provide a budget to work with. Negotiations will be between manager, Head of Recruitment, CEO, selling club, player (who in turn may need to speak with his family especiallyif it means relocation) and agent. At any point, talks could falter especially if other clubs are also interested. Only then, will a player sign. If that player decides not to sign, then move on to option 2, 3 and so on. Problems arise if the first choice decides late on not to sign and options 2 and 3 move elsewhere in the meantime, leaving us with a hasty decision to sign option 4 or 5, start again or move on. Far too many moving parts to lay the blame at the door of one person, whether that is TW, manager or whomever. Agree and I think your summary is how I see it... no one person is to blame as ultimately they are all involved in some way or form....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 9:29:39 GMT
For me if the list is poor then the manager can feed that back and say look again it’s not good enough. It’s unlikely a manager would put a name forward and be told no unless a) the player is too expensive and we can’t afford them, b) they are unavailable or c) the player says they don’t want to come. Re the summer window and forwards, we know that we pursued targets but couldn’t get one for a variety of reasons - either not the right attributes that Garner wanted to compliment what he had, affordability as players were priced out in either fees or wages (Wael had been burned before on a couple of occasions overpaying for forwards - Nichols and Payne), they just didn’t want to move to us due to personal reasons or we were out bid by other teams.... Garner then did say he was happy to go with what he had.... The January window was a story of trying to get a certain type of striker and there were limited availability of that type of forward. We pursued the 2 most credible candidates and came close with Stockley but you can’t recruit want isn’t available or players that are outside your financial boundaries. Yes we probably could have recruited any striker or an unproven premiership/championship youngster but that isn’t what Tisdale wanted. He chose who he was going after and Gnaduillet messed us about and Stockley - despite agreeing verbally to join, he changed his heart at the last minute and chose Charlton. We got burned - January windows are notorious for it ...... Garner said that when he had 3 fit strikers plus Walker. Then Ayunga got injured. Also there is conflicting reports that he wasn’t happy and wanted additional attackers. I also don’t buy that Tisdale only had two targets and we missed out. He was very upset at what he had been left with so to suggest he only put two, hard to attain targets forward doesn’t sit right with me. No one knows re Tisdale but looking at who moved in the window and who are free agents now, I can’t see any others who fitted the brief? Tisdale was disappointed re Stockley and maybe he felt we should have offered or paid more to get him? Who knows?
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Post by carlts2020 on Mar 4, 2021 9:30:54 GMT
If we had greater transparency as to the role and process of player recruitment it would be a big step in the right direction.
I personally think it is Wael that is behind the model of developing young players and being sustainable, hence the Garner appointment and that Starnes and Widdrington have a more old school approach.
TW stated that we recruit and analyse two windows ahead which makes the Garner sacking in November even more crazy. Basically 6 months of TW work ripped up in an instant, leading to a poor unfruitful window and an unhappy new manager.
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Post by alanrg on Mar 4, 2021 9:47:19 GMT
I don’t get the people on here trying to defend Widdrington he is to blame as much as Garner and Tisdale if we get relegated he should go
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Post by CrispPusher on Mar 4, 2021 9:59:00 GMT
If we had greater transparency as to the role and process of player recruitment it would be a big step in the right direction. I personally think it is Wael that is behind the model of developing young players and being sustainable, hence the Garner appointment and that Starnes and Widdrington have a more old school approach. TW stated that we recruit and analyse two windows ahead which makes the Garner sacking in November even more crazy. Basically 6 months of TW work ripped up in an instant, leading to a poor unfruitful window and an unhappy new manager. 6 months of terrible work is still terrible work.
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 4, 2021 10:04:57 GMT
I don’t get the people on here trying to defend Widdrington he is to blame as much as Garner and Tisdale if we get relegated he should go Not so much defending as understanding why he isn't solely to blame and that some events are outside our control. Lessons need to be learnt though and if those lessons mean a change then so be it.
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Post by chewbacca on Mar 4, 2021 10:09:47 GMT
It's been like an episode of Ready, Steady Cook where someone has bought some sh** ingredients and every ten minutes the chef changes.
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Post by richhertford on Mar 4, 2021 10:18:39 GMT
Why do so many of our fans entertain themselves with negative posts and comments? I wouldn’t want many of these negative views anywhere near my players. You can be sure that Joey will spot any players with this attitude and kick them out. I’m off to write an antidote to this thread.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 10:30:51 GMT
I don’t get the people on here trying to defend Widdrington he is to blame as much as Garner and Tisdale if we get relegated he should go Not saying he hasn’t had a part in the problem but why is he to blame? Why are the players not being blamed? Most if not all were highly rated, players of high performances etc at their previous clubs but for some reason they haven’t quite worked or performed at the same level here. Why is that TWs fault?
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Post by singupgas on Mar 4, 2021 10:36:28 GMT
I would keep Joey Barton, I honestly think we have been the better side in past 3 games. I feel like we have something about us, we are creating more chances and not being hammered.
If the worse was to happen, we were on course for that under BG and PT after too many bottleless performances... the summer is going to give Joey a chance to clear out dead wood and bring better players.
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Post by axegas on Mar 4, 2021 11:46:11 GMT
I would keep Joey Barton, I honestly think we have been the better side in past 3 games. I feel like we have something about us, we are creating more chances and not being hammered. If the worse was to happen, we were on course for that under BG and PT after too many bottleless performances... the summer is going to give Joey a chance to clear out dead wood and bring better players. We weren’t being hammered before. Fact is we’ve lost two games to relegation rivals and almost threw three points away in the Shrewsbury game. I’d like to think we’ve been better but I haven’t seen evidence so far.
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Post by singupgas on Mar 4, 2021 11:55:56 GMT
I would keep Joey Barton, I honestly think we have been the better side in past 3 games. I feel like we have something about us, we are creating more chances and not being hammered. If the worse was to happen, we were on course for that under BG and PT after too many bottleless performances... the summer is going to give Joey a chance to clear out dead wood and bring better players. We weren’t being hammered before. Fact is we’ve lost two games to relegation rivals and almost threw three points away in the Shrewsbury game. I’d like to think we’ve been better but I haven’t seen evidence so far. Maybe not hammered in term of the results, but we were very easy to beat, we never created and chances at all. Each game I felt like we are going to get beat, I had resigned to that. Surely you have watched the games and seen a noticeable improvement? On the flip side, against Wigan we lost to set piece which was last kick of the game, we beat Shrewsbury and absolutely deserved it, Tuesday we were by far the better side up until the sending off.
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Post by hardingegas on Mar 4, 2021 12:04:42 GMT
We had three hammerings under Garner - Donny 1-4, Hull 1-3, Fleetwood 1-4.
Under Tisdale that terrible 1-6 v Accrington. With Barton we've lost by the odd goal in two games and seem to be more difficult to beat.
I'll stick my neck out and say we won't be hammered on Saturday.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 12:15:12 GMT
I don’t get the people on here trying to defend Widdrington he is to blame as much as Garner and Tisdale if we get relegated he should go On that basis you will need to add Barton to that list if we get relegated, wouldn't he have managed more games this season than the other three in the frame? Personally I would blame the person who assembled this squad be it Garner or Widdrington or a collaboration of the two.
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Post by GasAttacK on Mar 4, 2021 14:00:02 GMT
Personally, I would stick with Joey and his new coaching team next season even if we go down.
Joey would have to take some responsibility if we go down but he'd be at least 4th in line behind Garner, Tisdale and Widdrington.
We can't keep changing managers and most of the damage was already done before he joined so I wouldn't put too much blame at his door.
I also think our best chance of bouncing straight back would be with him in charge.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Mar 4, 2021 16:40:49 GMT
I don’t get the people on here trying to defend Widdrington he is to blame as much as Garner and Tisdale if we get relegated he should go On that basis you will need to add Barton to that list if we get relegated, wouldn't he have managed more games this season than the other three in the frame? Personally I would blame the person who assembled this squad be it Garner or Widdrington or a collaboration of the two.I agree. Tisdale took on Garners players, but at least had a transfer window where he brought in a GK and a RB. Barton knew what he was taking on, fair play to him as he could have waited until the summer and had more options. Id say if he kept us safe that was a bonus, but next season would be a given whatever league we are in.
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