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Post by Gassy on Mar 25, 2021 9:43:34 GMT
Clearly you dint understand the word patronising. Not the first time you’ve confused yourself. Trying to remember I time you haven’t actually. Herewith the Cambridge definition of the word. Always glad to help clear a befuddled mind. As you can now see I wasn’t patronising Officer Dribble, I was expressing genuine amazement at his/her attitude. You're welcome. Yes and the line “You as a health worker ought to know better” is suggesting he should be more intelligent in the subject (aka your opinion)- therefore the definition of patronising. Showing shock would be something to say, “I’m shocked that’s your opinion” or “I’m surprised to hear you say that”. Not, “you should know better”. I appreciate it is difficult though. You’re welcome. Ps, glad to see you’ve moved from urban dictionary to Cambridge though. That’s an improvement. |
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Post by oldie on Mar 25, 2021 10:32:08 GMT
For example There is no evidence that BLM supported demonstrations last summer dramatically increased covid infection rates and therefore deaths, but there is clear evidence that the shambolic policies and announcements from November through to the week before Christmas did. That's why Good grief. Next you’ll be claiming that the BLM city centre riots of orgy and destruction actually contributed to a reduction in infections, such was the righteousness of their actions. Rather than debate a point you raise a straw man argument, one which is pointless and pure deflection. Others on here have raised the issue of the timing of protests during a pandemic. It's a fair point. But of course firstly we have to accept that we are not overloaded with demonstrations, occuring on a weekly basis, none of serious note at least. Let'stake the two widely discussed on here, mostly condemned. I think it is fairly obvious that specific "events" were drivers for both. The BLM protests was driven by the murder of a black guy by a police officer in the States. This then laid bare the seething resentment, frustrations and downright anger felt by many in communities in the States and then here, the UK also. The point being is the murder happened, if you are a member of that community do you ignore it (again) or despite everything do you use it to highlight to the world what is going on. In Bristol do we show support and highlight the hypocrisy and disgrace of allowing a public monument to a murdering fascist to stand in our city centre? The moment had come. With the "Kill the Bill" demo in Bristol, that bill is passing through Parliament right now, the time to influence MPs to amend it at the committee stage is right now, not in August when it's on the Statute Book and too late. It must be resisted. For those of us who fall within the libertarian segment of the political compass there is a "theme" with this government. A slide into nationalism and one with an authoritarian instinct. National Flags on display now every where, £2.7m (as I recall) spent on a "government" PR briefing room, £14billion extra on military spending. I laughed at the leaked comments from Johnson where he said "Capitalism & Greed" were the root causes of the success of the vaccine roll out. This pure 19th century economic theory, taught in the elite schools of Eton and Harrow and has zero relevance in the 21st century society. The fact that our Prime Minister said it, in a meeting in Parliament is a perfect indicator of the way our government thinks, their base instincts. Pandemic or not, their attempts at suppression must be resisted. |
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Post by oldgas on Mar 25, 2021 10:58:50 GMT
Good grief. Next you’ll be claiming that the BLM city centre riots of orgy and destruction actually contributed to a reduction in infections, such was the righteousness of their actions. No, he’s stating a statistical fact. But of course you’d disagree with that. I’d be very interested to see the statistics you claim he used. Or was it really just a personal opinion which you happen to agree with? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 25, 2021 11:09:48 GMT
No, he’s stating a statistical fact. But of course you’d disagree with that. I’d be very interested to see the statistics you claim he used. Or was it really just a personal opinion which you happen to agree with? "Experts caution against using any specific events as a benchmark for causing a rise in coronavirus cases, arguing that there is no data available to precisely match the events to rises and that it would be 'impossible' to do so. And they told MailOnline there is no evidence that BLM protesters pouring onto the streets or families lining the seaside for a day out spread the disease. Other studies have also dismissed claims the protests led to spikes in cases." www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8785775/amp/Coronavirus-cases-spiralled-days-August-Bank-Holiday.html |
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Post by oldie on Mar 25, 2021 11:25:07 GMT
No, he’s stating a statistical fact. But of course you’d disagree with that. I’d be very interested to see the statistics you claim he used. Or was it really just a personal opinion which you happen to agree with? Stuart has responded in some detail, but what I said was that there was no evidence that demos have caused a spike in infections. You may disagree, but then the onus is on you to provide the evidence to prove me wrong. |
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Post by Gassy on Mar 25, 2021 11:25:51 GMT
I’d be very interested to see the statistics you claim he used. Or was it really just a personal opinion which you happen to agree with? "Experts caution against using any specific events as a benchmark for causing a rise in coronavirus cases, arguing that there is no data available to precisely match the events to rises and that it would be 'impossible' to do so. And they told MailOnline there is no evidence that BLM protesters pouring onto the streets or families lining the seaside for a day out spread the disease. Other studies have also dismissed claims the protests led to spikes in cases." www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8785775/amp/Coronavirus-cases-spiralled-days-August-Bank-Holiday.htmlThis. It was discussed at the time on the Coronavirus (I think) thread where we compared the dates of protests in comparison to the number of cases - to which there was no link or evidence to show the protests had any effect at all. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 25, 2021 11:29:54 GMT
This. It was discussed at the time on the Coronavirus (I think) thread where we compared the dates of protests in comparison to the number of cases - to which there was no link or evidence to show the protests had any effect at all. Easy enough to find, not sure why I need to do Oldgas' research for him. Unless it's a Socratic question. 😉 |
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Post by Gassy on Mar 25, 2021 11:35:31 GMT
This. It was discussed at the time on the Coronavirus (I think) thread where we compared the dates of protests in comparison to the number of cases - to which there was no link or evidence to show the protests had any effect at all. Easy enough to find, not sure why I need to do Oldgas' research for him. Unless it's a Socratic question. 😉 Research? OldGas? That would be the day  |
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Post by blueridge on Mar 25, 2021 11:37:18 GMT
I’d be very interested to see the statistics you claim he used. Or was it really just a personal opinion which you happen to agree with? Stuart has responded in some detail, but what I said was that there was no evidence that demos have caused a spike in infections. You may disagree, but then the onus is on you to provide the evidence to prove me wrong. Notwithstanding all that - it is currently against the law to demonstrate - that is factual. |
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Post by oldie on Mar 25, 2021 12:16:53 GMT
Stuart has responded in some detail, but what I said was that there was no evidence that demos have caused a spike in infections. You may disagree, but then the onus is on you to provide the evidence to prove me wrong. Notwithstanding all that - it is currently against the law to demonstrate - that is factual. It is against the law to mix in groups greater than X (insert the current number) However, some issues over ride. We won't agree, but I completely understand your viewpoint. Hopefully the committee reviews of the draft legislation will remove Draconian wording like nuisance which, at a stroke, will satisfy most and not put the police into a position of interpretation of law in the heat of the moment. If so, job done. |
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Post by Gassy on Mar 25, 2021 12:25:00 GMT
Notwithstanding all that - it is currently against the law to demonstrate - that is factual. It is against the law to mix in groups greater than X (insert the current number) However, some issues over ride. We won't agree, but I completely understand your viewpoint. Hopefully the committee reviews of the draft legislation will remove Draconian wording like nuisance which, at a stroke, will satisfy most and not put the police into a position of interpretation of law in the heat of the moment. If so, job done. As was Cummings breaking lockdown rules, Boris proroguing parliament, our recent breaking of international law with the EU (didn't happen in the end though). The government should have delayed this until the pandemic is over. If you make it illegal to protest and then bring in a law that takes away the right to protest whilst its illegal - you're only asking for this to happen. That doesn't mean to say whether its right or wrong, I totally get where blueridge is coming from. The whole thing should have been avoided in the first place. |
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Post by oldgas on Mar 25, 2021 13:36:14 GMT
Good grief. Next you’ll be claiming that the BLM city centre riots of orgy and destruction actually contributed to a reduction in infections, such was the righteousness of their actions. Rather than debate a point you raise a straw man argument, one which is pointless and pure deflection. Others on here have raised the issue of the timing of protests during a pandemic. It's a fair point. But of course firstly we have to accept that we are not overloaded with demonstrations, occuring on a weekly basis, none of serious note at least. Let'stake the two widely discussed on here, mostly condemned. I think it is fairly obvious that specific "events" were drivers for both. The BLM protests was driven by the murder of a black guy by a police officer in the States. This then laid bare the seething resentment, frustrations and downright anger felt by many in communities in the States and then here, the UK also. The point being is the murder happened, if you are a member of that community do you ignore it (again) or despite everything do you use it to highlight to the world what is going on. In Bristol do we show support and highlight the hypocrisy and disgrace of allowing a public monument to a murdering fascist to stand in our city centre? The moment had come. With the "Kill the Bill" demo in Bristol, that bill is passing through Parliament right now, the time to influence MPs to amend it at the committee stage is right now, not in August when it's on the Statute Book and too late. It must be resisted. For those of us who fall within the libertarian segment of the political compass there is a "theme" with this government. A slide into nationalism and one with an authoritarian instinct. National Flags on display now every where, £2.7m (as I recall) spent on a "government" PR briefing room, £14billion extra on military spending. I laughed at the leaked comments from Johnson where he said "Capitalism & Greed" were the root causes of the success of the vaccine roll out. This pure 19th century economic theory, taught in the elite schools of Eton and Harrow and has zero relevance in the 21st century society. The fact that our Prime Minister said it, in a meeting in Parliament is a perfect indicator of the way our government thinks, their base instincts. Pandemic or not, their attempts at suppression must be resisted. I still fail to understand why people in this country got so het up about George Floyd. It just didn’t make any sense in a practical sense and it seemed to me it was more about causing maximum damage as the US elections were approaching and left wing agitation to get rid of Trump. I thought Trump a strange man to be POTUS, but quite what the US election had to do with us I can’t fathom. Plus the fact that the rioters in the US could hardly lay claim to any moral high ground, because they used it as a vehicle to burn whole sections of cities down, as well as destroying black peoples businesses. Who can forget that footage of that huge, fat black woman carrying boxes and boxes of Nike trainers to her 4x4 SUV?. So, the left wing agitators decide to have copy-cat demos (riots) in this country. What was that supposed to achieve here? What was their motive? It was never really very clear because there hadn’t been any instances of black criminals being unlawfully killed as was captured on film over there. You know, when a man who apparently couldn’t breath quite calmly told the officers he couldn’t breath numerous times over several minutes. The fact that he had numerous health conditions as a result of his louche lifestyle and was off his tits at the time seems to have been carefully overlooked. It turns out that one of their main aims was, in fact to defund the Police. Splendid, who shall we replace them with Einstein? I would have had more sympathy if they’d been on the streets demonstrating against the horrendous numbers of black on black murders happening on a daily basis in London, but no, not a peep. Strange, isn’t it. As for this taking the knee nonsense, forget it. I read of black players being racially abused after making mistakes during matches. Has anyone else noticed these incidents seem more frequent since this blended knee bollox? Abusing someone because of their colour, orientation, religion or whatever else is plainly wrong. The way to deal with this is to identify the perps and deal with them. The law affords salutary punishment. The worst thing they can do in my view is advertise it and encourage brain-dead’s to commit copy-cat offences. so in essence I don’t fundamentally disagree with you. We both know murder is wrong, murder because of the victims colour etc is just as wrong. Rioting over a statue to something that happened hundreds of years ago I saw pointless. Why not look at the statues, remind yourself it was wrong but in a different era and move on |
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Post by oldgas on Mar 25, 2021 13:37:29 GMT
Good grief. Next you’ll be claiming that the BLM city centre riots of orgy and destruction actually contributed to a reduction in infections, such was the righteousness of their actions. Rather than debate a point you raise a straw man argument, one which is pointless and pure deflection. Others on here have raised the issue of the timing of protests during a pandemic. It's a fair point. But of course firstly we have to accept that we are not overloaded with demonstrations, occuring on a weekly basis, none of serious note at least. Let'stake the two widely discussed on here, mostly condemned. I think it is fairly obvious that specific "events" were drivers for both. The BLM protests was driven by the murder of a black guy by a police officer in the States. This then laid bare the seething resentment, frustrations and downright anger felt by many in communities in the States and then here, the UK also. The point being is the murder happened, if you are a member of that community do you ignore it (again) or despite everything do you use it to highlight to the world what is going on. In Bristol do we show support and highlight the hypocrisy and disgrace of allowing a public monument to a murdering fascist to stand in our city centre? The moment had come. With the "Kill the Bill" demo in Bristol, that bill is passing through Parliament right now, the time to influence MPs to amend it at the committee stage is right now, not in August when it's on the Statute Book and too late. It must be resisted. For those of us who fall within the libertarian segment of the political compass there is a "theme" with this government. A slide into nationalism and one with an authoritarian instinct. National Flags on display now every where, £2.7m (as I recall) spent on a "government" PR briefing room, £14billion extra on military spending. I laughed at the leaked comments from Johnson where he said "Capitalism & Greed" were the root causes of the success of the vaccine roll out. This pure 19th century economic theory, taught in the elite schools of Eton and Harrow and has zero relevance in the 21st century society. The fact that our Prime Minister said it, in a meeting in Parliament is a perfect indicator of the way our government thinks, their base instincts. Pandemic or not, their attempts at suppression must be resisted. I still fail to understand why people in this country got so het up about George Floyd. It just didn’t make any sense in a practical sense and it seemed to me it was more about causing maximum damage as the US elections were approaching and left wing agitation to get rid of Trump. I thought Trump a strange man to be POTUS, but quite what the US election had to do with us I can’t fathom. Plus the fact that the rioters in the US could hardly lay claim to any moral high ground, because they used it as a vehicle to burn whole sections of cities down, as well as destroying black peoples businesses. Who can forget that footage of that huge, fat black woman carrying boxes and boxes of Nike trainers to her 4x4 SUV?. So, the left wing agitators decide to have copy-cat demos (riots) in this country. What was that supposed to achieve here? What was their motive? It was never really very clear because there hadn’t been any instances of black criminals being unlawfully killed as was captured on film over there. You know, when a man who apparently couldn’t breath quite calmly told the officers he couldn’t breath numerous times over several minutes. The fact that he had numerous health conditions as a result of his louche lifestyle and was off his tits at the time seems to have been carefully overlooked. It turns out that one of their main aims was, in fact to defund the Police. Splendid, who shall we replace them with Einstein? I would have had more sympathy if they’d been on the streets demonstrating against the horrendous numbers of black on black murders happening on a daily basis in London, but no, not a peep. Strange, isn’t it. As for this taking the knee nonsense, forget it. I read of black players being racially abused after making mistakes during matches. Has anyone else noticed these incidents seem more frequent since this blended knee bollox? Abusing someone because of their colour, orientation, religion or whatever else is plainly wrong. The way to deal with this is to identify the perps and deal with them. The law affords salutary punishment. The worst thing they can do in my view is advertise it and encourage brain-dead’s to commit copy-cat offences. so in essence I don’t fundamentally disagree with you. We both know murder is wrong, murder because of the victims colour etc is just as wrong. Rioting over a statue to something that happened hundreds of years ago I saw pointless. Why not look at the statues, remind yourself it was wrong but in a different era and move on. There really is nothing to see here, and revising history is a dangerous thing and smacks of Orwellian.. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2021 14:58:44 GMT
Good news that none of the police officers suffered broken bones or collapsed lungs as reported.
Bad news, police were telling lies originally then?
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Post by baggins on Mar 25, 2021 15:03:04 GMT
Good news that none of the police officers suffered broken bones or collapsed lungs as reported. Bad news, police were telling lies originally then? That's another weird bit of news as well. What the hell is going on? |
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Post by oldie on Mar 25, 2021 15:03:33 GMT
Oldgas
The debate on BLM protests has been done to death.
The issue is whether we should demonstrate/agitate during a lockdown.
I have given my reasons why I, personally, feel this government and its base instincts need to be resisted,lockdown or no lockdown.
Let's see if the committee stage review of the proposed legislation deletes/amends the overbearing, authoritarian, wording.
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Post by oldie on Mar 25, 2021 15:06:27 GMT
Good news that none of the police officers suffered broken bones or collapsed lungs as reported. Bad news, police were telling lies originally then? That's another weird bit of news as well. What the hell is going on? Will be interesting if the original source of this disinformation is identified and the media chase this story. |
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Post by baggins on Mar 25, 2021 15:10:34 GMT
That's another weird bit of news as well. What the hell is going on? Will be interesting if the original source of this disinformation is identified and the media chase this story. What if the source is the media? |
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Post by oldie on Mar 25, 2021 15:30:34 GMT
Will be interesting if the original source of this disinformation is identified and the media chase this story. What if the source is the media? Then that would be easy to trace. If it was, the Police did not contradict the story, in fact I thought they confirmed it in a public statement? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 25, 2021 15:33:27 GMT
Will be interesting if the original source of this disinformation is identified and the media chase this story. What if the source is the media? I suspect it was just the confusion at the time, seems like word of mouth verification initially. Doesn't need to be any conspiracy, it would have been early on and full assessments probably hadn't yet been completed. "Mr Marsh also said reports that officers had suffered broken bones on Sunday and that one had sustained a punctured lung, were not true. A force statement said the chief constable had spoken to injured officers and when he addressed the media on Monday, believed some injuries to be more serious than they were. "We clarified the extent of injuries proactively in our official media update this morning to be as transparent as possible," the statement said, adding the officer suspected to have had a punctured lung still required hospital treatment and a CT scan. The number of officers assaulted on Sunday had risen from 21 to 40, with one journalist also attacked, it added." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-56516100 |
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