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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 5, 2021 17:33:32 GMT
how were things between 1948 and 62? At which point do we still carry guilt for their own actions? Even if not guilt, we have a duty to reach our kids the facts, the truth. We do, my concern though is that history didn't start in 1750 and end in 1970. |
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Post by oldie on Apr 5, 2021 17:46:57 GMT
Even if not guilt, we have a duty to reach our kids the facts, the truth. We do, my concern though is that history didn't start in 1750 and end in 1970. Well, unless the curriculum for the subject, History, has changed dramatically I cannot agree that we do |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 5, 2021 17:47:25 GMT
how were things between 1948 and 62? At which point do we still carry guilt for their own actions? Even if not guilt, we have a duty to teach our kids the facts, the truth. Indeed. On a lot of subjects. Unfortunately a lot of people just dont like facts, the truth or outweighing evidence. |
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Post by oldie on Apr 5, 2021 18:15:36 GMT
Even if not guilt, we have a duty to teach our kids the facts, the truth. Indeed. On a lot of subjects. Unfortunately a lot of people just dont like facts, the truth or outweighing evidence. Leaving race to one side, do you think British History is taught fully and accurately? |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 5, 2021 18:29:52 GMT
Indeed. On a lot of subjects. Unfortunately a lot of people just dont like facts, the truth or outweighing evidence. Leaving race to one side, do you think British History is taught fully and accurately? I don't think any History is. I do feel the British Empire is scrutinised a lot more than others, possibly because it's the most recent I suppose. There are plenty of Empires and Dynasties that nobody knows about or there's very little teachings of. |
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Post by Gassy on Apr 5, 2021 18:42:46 GMT
Leaving race to one side, do you think British History is taught fully and accurately? I don't think any History is. I do feel the British Empire is scrutinised a lot more than others, possibly because it's the most recent I suppose. There are plenty of Empires and Dynasties that nobody knows about or there's very little teachings of. I don’t think we are taught enough about the empire these days. We use WW1&2 to cover up what we actually did. We even look at is as if it’s a positive thing... |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 5, 2021 18:44:35 GMT
Leaving race to one side, do you think British History is taught fully and accurately? I don't think any History is. I do feel the British Empire is scrutinised a lot more than others, possibly because it's the most recent I suppose. There are plenty of Empires and Dynasties that nobody knows about or there's very little teachings of. Surely it should be taught and scrutinised more as it’s our history? Can’t remember being taught anything about it in my time at school , apart from seeing the pink bits on a map showing all the parts of the world we colonised. |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 5, 2021 18:57:52 GMT
I don't think any History is. I do feel the British Empire is scrutinised a lot more than others, possibly because it's the most recent I suppose. There are plenty of Empires and Dynasties that nobody knows about or there's very little teachings of. Surely it should be taught and scrutinised more as it’s our history? Can’t remember being taught anything about it in my time at school , apart from seeing the pink bits on a map showing all the parts of the world we colonised. I don't disagree with that. But like Stuart said, history didn't just start in 1750 and finish at World War 2. I just think History full stop isn't taught that accurately. I think its a pretty tough subject to teach factually and accurately, actually. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2021 19:10:56 GMT
Myanmar (Burma) gained independence from UK in 1945, military coup 1960s. Have a lot to answer for don't we. So may places in the world ravaged by imperialism. how were things between 1948 and 62? At which point do we still carry guilt for their own actions? The usual formula. Invaders get kicked out. People's government installed by the people. Former invader sanctions coup by despot in order to regain resources. You know it's happened many times to a lot of counties. It's not really about guilt, it's like oldie says, education so that it doesn't keep happening again and again. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2021 19:14:10 GMT
Myanmar (Burma) gained independence from UK in 1945, military coup 1960s. Have a lot to answer for don't we. So may places in the world ravaged by imperialism. And what history do we teach our kids?? That Britain was the greatest country in the world 😡. Lies. Like when the racist report said last week that Atlantic slavery introduced the Africans to a better life style. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 5, 2021 19:24:41 GMT
Surely it should be taught and scrutinised more as it’s our history? Can’t remember being taught anything about it in my time at school , apart from seeing the pink bits on a map showing all the parts of the world we colonised. I don't disagree with that. But like Stuart said, history didn't just start in 1750 and finish at World War 2. I just think History full stop isn't taught that accurately. I think its a pretty tough subject to teach factually and accurately, actually. It's too broad to learn in depth and with other subjects crowding it out it is really difficult to study properly. I studied it up to and including A Levels and barely scratched the surface. My dad learnt about history during the 50s so has one view of Empire, I learnt history in the 80s and 90s and if anything my teachers overcompensated. My nephew is doing a history degree and has broadened the curriculum quite considerably. My daughter loves history and if that continues I'll encourage her to read widely and not accept just one view of events. For example, look at the First World War. Contemporaries viewed it one way, there was a sea change after the Second World War with another view (I loved Blackadder Goes Forth and Charley's War but they were very stereotypical) and more recently the narrative is moving back towards what I would see as a more balanced one (Gordon Corrigan's Mud, Blood and Poppycock, Hew Strachan's various works). |
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 5, 2021 19:30:44 GMT
how were things between 1948 and 62? At which point do we still carry guilt for their own actions? The usual formula. Invaders get kicked out. People's government installed by the people. Former invader sanctions coup by despot in order to regain resources. You know it's happened many times to a lot of counties. It's not really about guilt, it's like oldie says, education so that it doesn't keep happening again and again. It does happen and has happened, not sure that applies to Burma though. Do you have a link to any of that? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2021 19:34:46 GMT
Have to be careful really as these stories wreak of Orientalism. Remember the Nayirah testimony from 1990? The daughter of a Kuwaiti US ambassador testified on TV that Iraqi soldiers took Kuwaiti babies out of incubators and killed them... It swayed public opinion to the the first Gulf war... It was lies. Hard evidence is needed to accuse China. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 5, 2021 19:39:21 GMT
Have to be careful really as these stories wreak of Orientalism. Remember the Nayirah testimony from 1990? The daughter of a Kuwaiti US ambassador testified on TV that Iraqi soldiers took Kuwaiti babies out of incubators and killed them... It swayed public opinion to the the first Gulf war... It was lies. Hard evidence is needed to accuse China. We have to keep an open mind, I agree. Not convinced your example had that big an impact as you think. |
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Post by oldie on Apr 5, 2021 20:07:07 GMT
Have to be careful really as these stories wreak of Orientalism. Remember the Nayirah testimony from 1990? The daughter of a Kuwaiti US ambassador testified on TV that Iraqi soldiers took Kuwaiti babies out of incubators and killed them... It swayed public opinion to the the first Gulf war... It was lies. Hard evidence is needed to accuse China. We have to keep an open mind, I agree. Not convinced your example had that big an impact as you think. That made me laugh |
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Post by oldie on Apr 5, 2021 20:10:26 GMT
Have to be careful really as these stories wreak of Orientalism. Remember the Nayirah testimony from 1990? The daughter of a Kuwaiti US ambassador testified on TV that Iraqi soldiers took Kuwaiti babies out of incubators and killed them... It swayed public opinion to the the first Gulf war... It was lies. Hard evidence is needed to accuse China. Ahhh, Orientalism...by Edward Said. That was taught, or discussed..after publication in 1978...right? No? I thought not |
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Post by oldie on Apr 5, 2021 20:16:57 GMT
It always makes me laugh when Lawrence of Arabia is held up as some form of romantic adventurer, but Gertrude Bell generally hardly gets a mention. But if you look at the history of the Middle East after 1918 much of what has happened since can be traced directly back to that period. Did anyone mention Ann Lambton? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_LambtonWe teach our kids what we have done and do....right?😂😂😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2021 20:39:44 GMT
Have to be careful really as these stories wreak of Orientalism. Remember the Nayirah testimony from 1990? The daughter of a Kuwaiti US ambassador testified on TV that Iraqi soldiers took Kuwaiti babies out of incubators and killed them... It swayed public opinion to the the first Gulf war... It was lies. Hard evidence is needed to accuse China. Ahhh, Orientalism...by Edward Said. That was taught, or discussed..after publication in 1978...right? No? I thought not It's a beautiful book. Have you read destiny disrupted by Tamim Ansary? 1lib.uk/book/1263469/7f3376Ofcourse most governments will commit atrocities in the name of the people, but some have been and continue to be absolutely barbaric. |
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Post by oldie on Apr 5, 2021 21:07:18 GMT
Ahhh, Orientalism...by Edward Said. That was taught, or discussed..after publication in 1978...right? No? I thought not It's a beautiful book. Have you read destiny disrupted by Tamim Ansary? 1lib.uk/book/1263469/7f3376Ofcourse most governments will commit atrocities in the name of the people, but some have been and continue to be absolutely barbaric. No I havent. But I am behind on reading, despite the lockdown...a bit pathetic really |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2021 21:08:55 GMT
The usual formula. Invaders get kicked out. People's government installed by the people. Former invader sanctions coup by despot in order to regain resources. You know it's happened many times to a lot of counties. It's not really about guilt, it's like oldie says, education so that it doesn't keep happening again and again. It does happen and has happened, not sure that applies to Burma though. Do you have a link to any of that? Looking further in to myanmar it looks like a more complex situation than usual (obviously these things are immensely complex)... Will be an interesting rabbit hile to find out the history though. |
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