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Post by GasAttacK on Apr 4, 2021 9:30:32 GMT
I think what he's trying to say is that calling for the managers head after a little over 5 weeks is probably pointless and not going to help.
If Barton & co have been brought in on 2.5 year contracts for the 'big reset' does anybody really think Wael is going to sack them before they've even had chance to start?
Yes, Wael will no doubt be disappointed if we go down but I'm sure he's watched the games and realises we're actually playing much better and most of the problems are out of the current managers control, at least until the summer.
Too many of our players are either inconsistant, prone to moments of madness or simply not good enough. When you factor in the players out injured (Ehmer, Kilgour, Baldwin, Rodman, Grant, Nicholson) and others not 100% fit (Hanlan, Oztumer), then it's little wonder we're struggling to get results.
Those who think he'll fail may eventually be proved right but lets at least give Barton & co a chance.
If we sack a third manager in 5 months I can't see many queueing up for the job, particularly with half the budget being spent on paying off Garner, Tisdale, Barton, Hill and Mangan. To be clear I don’t think we should sack him and was a little tongue in cheek which from the reply think Yatton got! To play devil’s advocate though he had publicly slated Ehmer before his injury, Kilgour has only missed one game, Rodman missed months of the season before JB, Grant was carrying the injury for most of PT time at the club and Nicholson has been in and out all season. The flip side of the coin is JB is doing worse with the same group of players than BG or PT and I think we all agree they were doing a sh!t job. So why would you trust the ‘big reset’ to someone who is performing worse than BG?! In addition to performing worse than BG he also has had no success as a manager, has a history of running his mouth off and has zero experience in L2? I look at how well we were playing when JB had Rodman and an 80% fit Nicholson to select. Superb against Shrewsbury and Accrington. Superb against Burton until McCormick's harsh red card. On top and in control against Wimbledon until Rodman's injury. Competing well against Hull until they take advantage of us being down to 10 men with Grant off injured.
We have had injuries throughout the season but they have been far worse since JB arrived. 4, 5, 6, 7+ Players unavailable and others only 80% fit. We currently have 3 of 4 our recognised 4 CB's out along with our best two attacking players Rodman and Nicholson. Of course we'd have had one other CB had Tisdale not loaned out Davies to Barrow.
Confidence is also a big factor. Players are buzzing at the start of the season and playing under very little pressure, as the season goes on that pressure intensifies. Hanlan scored 8 in his fist 21 appearances and was regualrly in the running for MOTM, he's since scored 1 in 22 and looks a shdow of the player he was 2 or 3 months ago.
In my opinion there are clear reasons why we haven't picked up as many points under Barton and most are out of his control.
If I had to allocate a percentage liability to our 3 managers this season it would be 70% Garner, 25% Tisdale, 5% Barton.
As I said, those who think he'll fail may eventually be proved right but lets at least give Barton & co a chance and judge them 15 games into next season when they've had chance to implement some of the changes they've been brought here to do.
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Post by carlts2020 on Apr 4, 2021 11:11:07 GMT
To be clear I don’t think we should sack him and was a little tongue in cheek which from the reply think Yatton got! To play devil’s advocate though he had publicly slated Ehmer before his injury, Kilgour has only missed one game, Rodman missed months of the season before JB, Grant was carrying the injury for most of PT time at the club and Nicholson has been in and out all season. The flip side of the coin is JB is doing worse with the same group of players than BG or PT and I think we all agree they were doing a sh!t job. So why would you trust the ‘big reset’ to someone who is performing worse than BG?! In addition to performing worse than BG he also has had no success as a manager, has a history of running his mouth off and has zero experience in L2? I look at how well we were playing when JB had Rodman and an 80% fit Nicholson to select. Superb against Shrewsbury and Accrington. Superb against Burton until McCormick's harsh red card. On top and in control against Wimbledon until Rodman's injury. Competing well against Hull until they take advantage of us being down to 10 men with Grant off injured.
We have had injuries throughout the season but they have been far worse since JB arrived. 4, 5, 6, 7+ Players unavailable and others only 80% fit. We currently have 3 of 4 our recognised 4 CB's out along with our best two attacking players Rodman and Nicholson. Of course we'd have had one other CB had Tisdale not loaned out Davies to Barrow.
Confidence is also a big factor. Players are buzzing at the start of the season and playing under very little pressure, as the season goes on that pressure intensifies. Hanlan scored 8 in his fist 21 appearances and was regualrly in the running for MOTM, he's since scored 1 in 22 and looks a shdow of the player he was 2 or 3 months ago.
In my opinion there are clear reasons why we haven't picked up as many points under Barton and most are out of his control.
If I had to allocate a percentage liability to our 3 managers this season it would be 70% Garner, 25% Tisdale, 5% Barton.
As I said, those who think he'll fail may eventually be proved right but lets at least give Barton & co a chance and judge them 15 games into next season when they've had chance to implement some of the changes they've been brought here to do.
I would go 50% the board for losing their bottle and then 10% Garner, 15% Tisdale and 25% Barton. Each manager knew the deal when they came on board. You are judged on your results as a manager.
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Post by yetigas on Apr 4, 2021 11:21:09 GMT
To be clear I don’t think we should sack him and was a little tongue in cheek which from the reply think Yatton got! To play devil’s advocate though he had publicly slated Ehmer before his injury, Kilgour has only missed one game, Rodman missed months of the season before JB, Grant was carrying the injury for most of PT time at the club and Nicholson has been in and out all season. The flip side of the coin is JB is doing worse with the same group of players than BG or PT and I think we all agree they were doing a sh!t job. So why would you trust the ‘big reset’ to someone who is performing worse than BG?! In addition to performing worse than BG he also has had no success as a manager, has a history of running his mouth off and has zero experience in L2? I look at how well we were playing when JB had Rodman and an 80% fit Nicholson to select. Superb against Shrewsbury and Accrington. Superb against Burton until McCormick's harsh red card. On top and in control against Wimbledon until Rodman's injury. Competing well against Hull until they take advantage of us being down to 10 men with Grant off injured.
We have had injuries throughout the season but they have been far worse since JB arrived. 4, 5, 6, 7+ Players unavailable and others only 80% fit. We currently have 3 of 4 our recognised 4 CB's out along with our best two attacking players Rodman and Nicholson. Of course we'd have had one other CB had Tisdale not loaned out Davies to Barrow.
Confidence is also a big factor. Players are buzzing at the start of the season and playing under very little pressure, as the season goes on that pressure intensifies. Hanlan scored 8 in his fist 21 appearances and was regualrly in the running for MOTM, he's since scored 1 in 22 and looks a shdow of the player he was 2 or 3 months ago.
In my opinion there are clear reasons why we haven't picked up as many points under Barton and most are out of his control.
If I had to allocate a percentage liability to our 3 managers this season it would be 70% Garner, 25% Tisdale, 5% Barton.
As I said, those who think he'll fail may eventually be proved right but lets at least give Barton & co a chance and judge them 15 games into next season when they've had chance to implement some of the changes they've been brought here to do.
Have a look at our position in the table when Ganer left...then Tisdale......and then now. You are being far too generous to Barton and basically saying if we go down it is not his fault. I disagree. If it happens, then I only hope that having a relegation on his CV has the same psychological affect on JB as it did on DC and motivate himself (and the players) to get 2 straight promotions.
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Post by theoriginals1878 on Apr 4, 2021 11:30:41 GMT
Magnificent support from your fans for Joey Barton, Nothing to be gained by sacking him now stick with him and he will turn it around for you maybe not this season but give him a transfer window and some backing to get players that buy into his plans for the future and he will pay you back in spades. I dont know much about your board are they bottlers or will they see the thing through? If I was to criticise Joey I think he needs to reign it in on the criticising referees it is counter productive and maybe doing more harm than good. Best of luck against Doncaster , there current form is no better than yours so hopefully you get a much needed win.
UTG
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Post by carlts2020 on Apr 4, 2021 12:23:51 GMT
Magnificent support from your fans for Joey Barton, Nothing to be gained by sacking him now stick with him and he will turn it around for you maybe not this season but give him a transfer window and some backing to get players that buy into his plans for the future and he will pay you back in spades. I dont know much about your board are they bottlers or will they see the thing through? If I was to criticise Joey I think he needs to reign it in on the criticising referees it is counter productive and maybe doing more harm than good. Best of luck against Doncaster , there current form is no better than yours so hopefully you get a much needed win. UTG I’m not saying I agree or disagree just wondered what you are basing that opinion on? JB took over a Fleetwood side that had finished 4th and 14th in their last two league one seasons with one of the biggest budgets in the league and came 11th and 6th. That is his only managerial / coaching experience. 2.5 years with Fleetwood.
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Post by bluebiro on Apr 4, 2021 12:36:39 GMT
Magnificent support from your fans for Joey Barton, Nothing to be gained by sacking him now stick with him and he will turn it around for you maybe not this season but give him a transfer window and some backing to get players that buy into his plans for the future and he will pay you back in spades. I dont know much about your board are they bottlers or will they see the thing through? If I was to criticise Joey I think he needs to reign it in on the criticising referees it is counter productive and maybe doing more harm than good. Best of luck against Doncaster , there current form is no better than yours so hopefully you get a much needed win. UTG I’m not saying I agree or disagree just wondered what you are basing that opinion on? JB took over a Fleetwood side that had finished 4th and 14th in their last two league one seasons with one of the biggest budgets in the league and came 11th and 6th. That is his only managerial / coaching experience. 2.5 years with Fleetwood. and you took a winning side 4th in a league and destroyed a club yet you still believe that your abysmal ppg would have even kept us up over a season.
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Post by Big Jock on Apr 4, 2021 12:44:46 GMT
We interrupt this thread for an important message:
HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE 😃
May yous all make th most of what life gives you an good will to all. Enjoy Gasheads. 👍
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Post by playtowin on Apr 4, 2021 13:30:00 GMT
Only Widdrington and you seem to have that view, if the present squad w/o Nicholson and Rodman is so good why is it incapable of scoring goals? Yesterday only McCormick seem to know where the goal is on the pitch, Hanlan dragged his only chance wide and I can't recall Ayunga even having a chance to score. We didn’t have Rodman at all in October and I think Nicholson started one game. We played 6 league games - 3 wins 2 draws and 1 defeat (to Hull).in the 6 games we scored 8 goals with Hanlan and Daly getting 3 each. Not saying its a great squad but it’s good enough to average a point a game. You forgot the defeat to oxford in the cup...but that is a cup game. Rovers also had 2 pens that month (thats 2 of hanlans goals no doubt) 2 players of the opposition also got red cards that month. Average line up was. Jaakola Ehmer Baldwin Harries Hare Westbrooke McCormick Grant Tutonda Daly Hanlan
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Post by bs10er on Apr 4, 2021 17:26:29 GMT
In,even if we go down.(as a long term fan I have seen it before) Think JB can sort the club out given time.
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Post by bobbyjones on Apr 4, 2021 17:30:28 GMT
We interrupt this thread for an important message: HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE 😃 May yous all make th most of what life gives you an good will to all. Enjoy Gasheads. 👍 Had my Grand daughter over for today, she said to me grand dad I have hidden your egg in the garden go and find it so off I went. One hour later I had given up and told her I could not find it and asked where it was. She replied silly grand dad its in our garden at home I hid without mummy knowing. Kids you could kill some times.
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Post by GasAttacK on Apr 4, 2021 17:40:53 GMT
I look at how well we were playing when JB had Rodman and an 80% fit Nicholson to select. Superb against Shrewsbury and Accrington. Superb against Burton until McCormick's harsh red card. On top and in control against Wimbledon until Rodman's injury. Competing well against Hull until they take advantage of us being down to 10 men with Grant off injured.
We have had injuries throughout the season but they have been far worse since JB arrived. 4, 5, 6, 7+ Players unavailable and others only 80% fit. We currently have 3 of 4 our recognised 4 CB's out along with our best two attacking players Rodman and Nicholson. Of course we'd have had one other CB had Tisdale not loaned out Davies to Barrow.
Confidence is also a big factor. Players are buzzing at the start of the season and playing under very little pressure, as the season goes on that pressure intensifies. Hanlan scored 8 in his fist 21 appearances and was regualrly in the running for MOTM, he's since scored 1 in 22 and looks a shdow of the player he was 2 or 3 months ago.
In my opinion there are clear reasons why we haven't picked up as many points under Barton and most are out of his control.
If I had to allocate a percentage liability to our 3 managers this season it would be 70% Garner, 25% Tisdale, 5% Barton.
As I said, those who think he'll fail may eventually be proved right but lets at least give Barton & co a chance and judge them 15 games into next season when they've had chance to implement some of the changes they've been brought here to do.
Have a look at our position in the table when Ganer left...then Tisdale......and then now. You are being far too generous to Barton and basically saying if we go down it is not his fault. I disagree. If it happens, then I only hope that having a relegation on his CV has the same psychological affect on JB as it did on DC and motivate himself (and the players) to get 2 straight promotions. I explained above why I split liability that way and I'd stand by it even if we go down.
Barton inherited a poor unbalaned squad, very low on confidence and under increasing pressure. He's had no transfer window to make any changes. He's had to deal with a lengthening injury list and a number of poor refereeing decisions that have cost us points.
The situation he inherited could not be more different to Garner who took over a side near the top of L1 with confidence at an all time high. Including loans Garner probably signed close to 20 players over two transfer windows..
I have a little more sympathy for Tisdale but his failure to address the clear weaknesses in the squad in January was unforgivable in my opinion.
I appreciate others will see it differently but I don't think we can properly judge Barton until next season when he's had chance to implement the 'big reset' he's been brought here to do.
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Post by chilly1883 on Apr 4, 2021 17:49:43 GMT
Ta da out voters 👋👋
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Post by 4d on Apr 4, 2021 18:11:55 GMT
We didn’t have Rodman at all in October and I think Nicholson started one game. We played 6 league games - 3 wins 2 draws and 1 defeat (to Hull).in the 6 games we scored 8 goals with Hanlan and Daly getting 3 each. Not saying its a great squad but it’s good enough to average a point a game. You forgot the defeat to oxford in the cup...but that is a cup game. Rovers also had 2 pens that month (thats 2 of hanlans goals no doubt) 2 players of the opposition also got red cards that month. Average line up was. Jaakola Ehmer Baldwin Harries Hare Westbrooke McCormick Grant Tutonda Daly Hanlan I didn’t include the Mickey Mouse cup but it was a draw and a game in which we thoroughly outplayed Oxford. On a slightly related note it must be a mystery how we’ve barely seen Hargreaves since - he was outstanding against Sunderland last game of last season and thought he’d kick on this season. Hanlan won both penalties himself and I don’t see how it matters how we score - I’d imagine better teams generally win more penalties. As for the 2 red cards - both were when we were already winning and were both born out of frustration from opposition players who knew they were getting nothing from the game.
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Post by biggles on Apr 4, 2021 18:21:43 GMT
this club after the terrible season we have had and not just this season it needs to be dragged up by the bootstraps the only person available is mr barton i would say,start with a clean sheet he is the man who will turn our fortunes around1
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Post by LJG on Apr 4, 2021 18:22:59 GMT
We didn’t have Rodman at all in October and I think Nicholson started one game. We played 6 league games - 3 wins 2 draws and 1 defeat (to Hull).in the 6 games we scored 8 goals with Hanlan and Daly getting 3 each. Not saying its a great squad but it’s good enough to average a point a game. You forgot the defeat to oxford in the cup...but that is a cup game. Rovers also had 2 pens that month (thats 2 of hanlans goals no doubt) 2 players of the opposition also got red cards that month. Average line up was. Jaakola Ehmer Baldwin Harries Hare Westbrooke McCormick Grant Tutonda Daly Hanlan The "Penalties don't count" thing is such a weak argument. We've heard it before about Elliot Richards. Then we swapped him for Alan Gow and the rest is history (that history being we went down because we'd stopped winning and scoring penalties). Tom Nichols and Luke James are perfect examples of how easy it is to score penalties.
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Post by carlts2020 on Apr 4, 2021 19:37:53 GMT
I’m not saying I agree or disagree just wondered what you are basing that opinion on? JB took over a Fleetwood side that had finished 4th and 14th in their last two league one seasons with one of the biggest budgets in the league and came 11th and 6th. That is his only managerial / coaching experience. 2.5 years with Fleetwood. and you took a winning side 4th in a league and destroyed a club yet you still believe that your abysmal ppg would have even kept us up over a season. That is a great point really well made. I have to say your insights and opinion on Rovers and football in general has been a real education for me.
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Post by bluebiro on Apr 4, 2021 21:26:52 GMT
and you took a winning side 4th in a league and destroyed a club yet you still believe that your abysmal ppg would have even kept us up over a season. That is a great point really well made. I have to say your insights and opinion on Rovers and football in general has been a real education for me. no problem. If you need to know anything about this football club pre garner there are plenty on here you can ask.
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Post by yetigas on Apr 4, 2021 21:30:27 GMT
Have a look at our position in the table when Ganer left...then Tisdale......and then now. You are being far too generous to Barton and basically saying if we go down it is not his fault. I disagree. If it happens, then I only hope that having a relegation on his CV has the same psychological affect on JB as it did on DC and motivate himself (and the players) to get 2 straight promotions. I explained above why I split liability that way and I'd stand by it even if we go down.
Barton inherited a poor unbalaned squad, very low on confidence and under increasing pressure. He's had no transfer window to make any changes. He's had to deal with a lengthening injury list and a number of poor refereeing decisions that have cost us points.
The situation he inherited could not be more different to Garner who took over a side near the top of L1 with confidence at an all time high. Including loans Garner probably signed close to 20 players over two transfer windows..
I have a little more sympathy for Tisdale but his failure to address the clear weaknesses in the squad in January was unforgivable in my opinion.
I appreciate others will see it differently but I don't think we can properly judge Barton until next season when he's had chance to implement the 'big reset' he's been brought here to do.
I agree that Barton has had some terrible refereeing decisions - but so did Garner. The difference is that apparently Garner was a 'moaner' who shouldn't blame the ref whilst Barton has genuine grievances. Barton has had some injuries, but so did Garner. Low on confidence the players may have been after Tisdale but a managers job is to give the players confidence. That's the difference between good and average managers. I actually feel that we are likely to stay up BUT if we do go down it will be BARTON's relegation. He has had time to get enough points against some very poor opposition. So far he has pretty much failed. Let's see how good a manager he really is...he has 7 games to prove it. Next season is a different story...let's focus on this one for now.
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Post by purdownpoacher1 on Apr 4, 2021 21:44:01 GMT
I like your optimism re- staying up ! Utg
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Post by GasAttacK on Apr 4, 2021 22:17:27 GMT
I explained above why I split liability that way and I'd stand by it even if we go down.
Barton inherited a poor unbalaned squad, very low on confidence and under increasing pressure. He's had no transfer window to make any changes. He's had to deal with a lengthening injury list and a number of poor refereeing decisions that have cost us points.
The situation he inherited could not be more different to Garner who took over a side near the top of L1 with confidence at an all time high. Including loans Garner probably signed close to 20 players over two transfer windows..
I have a little more sympathy for Tisdale but his failure to address the clear weaknesses in the squad in January was unforgivable in my opinion.
I appreciate others will see it differently but I don't think we can properly judge Barton until next season when he's had chance to implement the 'big reset' he's been brought here to do.
I agree that Barton has had some terrible refereeing decisions - but so did Garner. The difference is that apparently Garner was a 'moaner' who shouldn't blame the ref whilst Barton has genuine grievances. Barton has had some injuries, but so did Garner. Low on confidence the players may have been after Tisdale but a managers job is to give the players confidence. That's the difference between good and average managers. I actually feel that we are likely to stay up BUT if we do go down it will be BARTON's relegation. He has had time to get enough points against some very poor opposition. So far he has pretty much failed. Let's see how good a manager he really is...he has 7 games to prove it. Next season is a different story...let's focus on this one for now. We'll agree to disagree. For the reasons stated I would put very little blame at Barton's door even if we go down; which personally I think we will.
Garner had a few injuries but nothing compared to our current injury list (Ehmer, Harries, Kilgour, Rodman, Ogogo, Grant, Nicholson). We've also been missing Jaakkola, Day, Baldwin, Upson and McCormick for certain games over the past 5 weeks and Hanlan is only 80% fit.
I can't remember many major decisions going against us earlier in the season but you could easily point to 3 or 4 since Barton took charge that have likely cost us points.
Garner had a longer than normal pre season to work on tactics etc and the team should have been full of confidence and expectation as most are at the start of a new campaign. Hardly the same situation Barton inherited. Confidence is the main reason why Hanlan scored 8 in his first 21 games and only 1 in his last 22.
All that aside, the main reason we're in this mess is down to the squad Garner put together. No reliable defenders, no warriors in midfield and no proven goalscorers up front.
Personally, I won't be judging Barton until next season regardless what happens in the next 7 games.
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