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Post by Gassy on Apr 4, 2021 23:16:22 GMT
I look at how well we were playing when JB had Rodman and an 80% fit Nicholson to select. Superb against Shrewsbury and Accrington. Superb against Burton until McCormick's harsh red card. On top and in control against Wimbledon until Rodman's injury. Competing well against Hull until they take advantage of us being down to 10 men with Grant off injured.
We have had injuries throughout the season but they have been far worse since JB arrived. 4, 5, 6, 7+ Players unavailable and others only 80% fit. We currently have 3 of 4 our recognised 4 CB's out along with our best two attacking players Rodman and Nicholson. Of course we'd have had one other CB had Tisdale not loaned out Davies to Barrow.
Confidence is also a big factor. Players are buzzing at the start of the season and playing under very little pressure, as the season goes on that pressure intensifies. Hanlan scored 8 in his fist 21 appearances and was regualrly in the running for MOTM, he's since scored 1 in 22 and looks a shdow of the player he was 2 or 3 months ago.
In my opinion there are clear reasons why we haven't picked up as many points under Barton and most are out of his control.
If I had to allocate a percentage liability to our 3 managers this season it would be 70% Garner, 25% Tisdale, 5% Barton.
As I said, those who think he'll fail may eventually be proved right but lets at least give Barton & co a chance and judge them 15 games into next season when they've had chance to implement some of the changes they've been brought here to do.
I would go 50% the board for losing their bottle and then 10% Garner, 15% Tisdale and 25% Barton.Each manager knew the deal when they came on board. You are judged on your results as a manager. You have made my day 😂
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Post by yetigas on Apr 5, 2021 7:09:17 GMT
I agree that Barton has had some terrible refereeing decisions - but so did Garner. The difference is that apparently Garner was a 'moaner' who shouldn't blame the ref whilst Barton has genuine grievances. Barton has had some injuries, but so did Garner. Low on confidence the players may have been after Tisdale but a managers job is to give the players confidence. That's the difference between good and average managers. I actually feel that we are likely to stay up BUT if we do go down it will be BARTON's relegation. He has had time to get enough points against some very poor opposition. So far he has pretty much failed. Let's see how good a manager he really is...he has 7 games to prove it. Next season is a different story...let's focus on this one for now. We'll agree to disagree. For the reasons stated I would put very little blame at Barton's door even if we go down; which personally I think we will.
Garner had a few injuries but nothing compared to our current injury list (Ehmer, Harries, Kilgour, Rodman, Ogogo, Grant, Nicholson). We've also been missing Jaakkola, Day, Baldwin, Upson and McCormick for certain games over the past 5 weeks and Hanlan is only 80% fit.
I can't remember many major decisions going against us earlier in the season but you could easily point to 3 or 4 since Barton took charge that have likely cost us points.
Garner had a longer than normal pre season to work on tactics etc and the team should have been full of confidence and expectation as most are at the start of a new campaign. Hardly the same situation Barton inherited. Confidence is the main reason why Hanlan scored 8 in his first 21 games and only 1 in his last 22.
All that aside, the main reason we're in this mess is down to the squad Garner put together. No reliable defenders, no warriors in midfield and no proven goalscorers up front.
Personally, I won't be judging Barton until next season regardless what happens in the next 7 games.
Yes, our opinions differ. I don't have the time to do the analysis of injuries etc but if the fact remains that we were several places higher in the table when Garner was here and we only lost 3 games in the last 10 he was in charge. Barton has contrived to lose 5 on the trot. Quite an achievement...and several against VERY poor opposition. I agree that there have been some awful refereeing decisions against us, but that is not an excuse for such a poor record. On a more positive note, today we will win!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 5, 2021 7:51:18 GMT
If Hanlan is only 80% fit why does Barton play him every minute of every game even though he never looks like scoring, when Daly, who's apparently fully fit, is sat on the bench?
It's almost as if there's a conspiracy by our managers this season to send us down.
Lose today and I will really wonder if Barton is the right choice, or Weal would do better employing a manager who's worked in L2 in the past.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Apr 5, 2021 9:05:27 GMT
I voted: Shake it all about.
The best okey cokey participation (that I was involved in) was the one under Ninian Park main stand where they served a hot Bovril 1985/6 at half time.......a copper got in the middle before the "off" trying to break it up.....I think his helmet is still in River Taff waiting to be retrieved.
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Post by theoriginals1878 on Apr 5, 2021 9:39:18 GMT
Magnificent support from your fans for Joey Barton, Nothing to be gained by sacking him now stick with him and he will turn it around for you maybe not this season but give him a transfer window and some backing to get players that buy into his plans for the future and he will pay you back in spades. I dont know much about your board are they bottlers or will they see the thing through? If I was to criticise Joey I think he needs to reign it in on the criticising referees it is counter productive and maybe doing more harm than good. Best of luck against Doncaster , there current form is no better than yours so hopefully you get a much needed win. UTG I’m not saying I agree or disagree just wondered what you are basing that opinion on? JB took over a Fleetwood side that had finished 4th and 14th in their last two league one seasons with one of the biggest budgets in the league and came 11th and 6th. That is his only managerial / coaching experience. 2.5 years with Fleetwood.
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Post by mftc on Apr 5, 2021 9:45:34 GMT
Like others have said Shankley, Wenger or Ferguson couldn't get much out of this squad.
4 quality players, 4-5 are good and they are covering the shortage in quality of about 6-7 of the rest of the squad who are no where near good enough.
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Post by theoriginals1878 on Apr 5, 2021 9:55:42 GMT
I know what you are saying but you were never going to get the finished article and sometimes the manager is just a great fit for the club .Fleetwood has a population of 25,000 Bristol is 600,000 the potential of the club is enormous. I like his straight forwardness , he doesnt suffer fools gladly and I am sure there are many players at the club that wont be in his plans next year but he has to work with them for now. He has a touch of the Cloughs/Shanklys about him totally focused and not worried who he upsets. Shankly spent 10 years in the lower divisions before joining the dark side while Clough had a couple of misses as well as his successes at Forest and Derby and probably his worst ever result was a 8-2 home defeat to Bristol Rovers. Enjoy the ride it certainly wont be dull, good luck for today
UTG
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Post by Bourne End Gas on Apr 5, 2021 10:01:16 GMT
I know what you are saying but you were never going to get the finished article and sometimes the manager is just a great fit for the club .Fleetwood has a population of 25,000 Bristol is 600,000 the potential of the club is enormous. I like his straight forwardness , he doesnt suffer fools gladly and I am sure there are many players at the club that wont be in his plans next year but he has to work with them for now. He has a touch of the Cloughs/Shanklys about him totally focused and not worried who he upsets. Shankly spent 10 years in the lower divisions before joining the dark side while Clough had a couple of misses as well as his successes at Forest and Derby and probably his worst ever result was a 8-2 home defeat to Bristol Rovers. Enjoy the ride it certainly wont be dull, good luck for today UTG Is that you Joey ?
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Post by gasandelectricity on Apr 5, 2021 10:02:52 GMT
I know what you are saying but you were never going to get the finished article and sometimes the manager is just a great fit for the club .Fleetwood has a population of 25,000 Bristol is 600,000 the potential of the club is enormous. I like his straight forwardness , he doesnt suffer fools gladly and I am sure there are many players at the club that wont be in his plans next year but he has to work with them for now. He has a touch of the Cloughs/Shanklys about him totally focused and not worried who he upsets. Shankly spent 10 years in the lower divisions before joining the dark side while Clough had a couple of misses as well as his successes at Forest and Derby and probably his worst ever result was a 8-2 home defeat to Bristol Rovers. Enjoy the ride it certainly wont be dull, good luck for today UTG Is that you Joey ? Just need PT and then we've got the trio.
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Post by playtowin on Apr 5, 2021 11:46:49 GMT
You forgot the defeat to oxford in the cup...but that is a cup game. Rovers also had 2 pens that month (thats 2 of hanlans goals no doubt) 2 players of the opposition also got red cards that month. Average line up was. Jaakola Ehmer Baldwin Harries Hare Westbrooke McCormick Grant Tutonda Daly Hanlan I didn’t include the Mickey Mouse cup but it was a draw and a game in which we thoroughly outplayed Oxford. On a slightly related note it must be a mystery how we’ve barely seen Hargreaves since - he was outstanding against Sunderland last game of last season and thought he’d kick on this season. Hanlan won both penalties himself and I don’t see how it matters how we score - I’d imagine better teams generally win more penalties. As for the 2 red cards - both were when we were already winning and were both born out of frustration from opposition players who knew they were getting nothing from the game. Red cards always make a difference. How many games have the opposition scored late goals to take the points against rovers. In those games rovers have looked the better team as well. We are no longer getting pens it seems so either hanlan isnt getting fouled or refs have wised up to his dives (? If they exist). It is a worry when your top striker only has a handful of goals across a whole season from open play. Oxford game rovers lost on penalties. Had it been a playoff final they wouldnt have been promoted...it counts. Though overall i dont count the competition important enough to affect the stats. This season Hargreaves just hasnt produced the goods for some reason. As a busy type player he would be in competition with McCormick i guess. Which would explain such few opportunities.
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Post by stevek192 on Apr 5, 2021 11:54:06 GMT
I think the votes show just one thing. The vast number of fans can see that Joey is the best bet by a mile and has been dealt an impossible hand of cards. Let him go ahead and give him at least next season to see it through. This season has proven that you can't keep changing the boss.
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Post by playtowin on Apr 5, 2021 11:58:24 GMT
You forgot the defeat to oxford in the cup...but that is a cup game. Rovers also had 2 pens that month (thats 2 of hanlans goals no doubt) 2 players of the opposition also got red cards that month. Average line up was. Jaakola Ehmer Baldwin Harries Hare Westbrooke McCormick Grant Tutonda Daly Hanlan The "Penalties don't count" thing is such a weak argument. We've heard it before about Elliot Richards. Then we swapped him for Alan Gow and the rest is history (that history being we went down because we'd stopped winning and scoring penalties). Tom Nichols and Luke James are perfect examples of how easy it is to score penalties. Penalties do count. You dont go out on the pitch hoping to get a penalty as its the only way you will score though do you (?) Penalties are bonuses not something to base a league campaign around. You still have to score a pen and many dont , im not deriding the skill. Lets face it you dont sign a striker because he is a good penalty taker or winner of them ......but maybe we did !
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Post by LJG on Apr 5, 2021 12:01:04 GMT
The "Penalties don't count" thing is such a weak argument. We've heard it before about Elliot Richards. Then we swapped him for Alan Gow and the rest is history (that history being we went down because we'd stopped winning and scoring penalties). Tom Nichols and Luke James are perfect examples of how easy it is to score penalties. Penalties do count. You dont go out on the pitch hoping to get a penalty as its the only way you will score though do you (?) Penalties are bonuses not something to base a league campaign around. You still have to score a pen and many dont , im not deriding the skill. Lets face it you dont sign a striker because he is a good penalty taker or winner of them ......but maybe we did ! You would base a campaign around the ability of particular players. If you have a skilful striker then you would build it around that. Winning and scoring penalties is an integral part of the skill of a striker. As we found to our detriment having sent Elliot Richards to Exeter.
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 5, 2021 12:09:00 GMT
The "Penalties don't count" thing is such a weak argument. We've heard it before about Elliot Richards. Then we swapped him for Alan Gow and the rest is history (that history being we went down because we'd stopped winning and scoring penalties). Tom Nichols and Luke James are perfect examples of how easy it is to score penalties. Penalties do count. You dont go out on the pitch hoping to get a penalty as its the only way you will score though do you (?) Penalties are bonuses not something to base a league campaign around. You still have to score a pen and many dont , im not deriding the skill. Lets face it you dont sign a striker because he is a good penalty taker or winner of them ......but maybe we did ! Difference is pens aren't scored from open play, Leahy's our pen taker this season but you wouldn't expect him to score if we played him up front, basically anybody who can strike a ball cleanly can score a pen.
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Post by GasAttacK on Apr 6, 2021 11:29:33 GMT
So on the forum at least 11% of 186 fans want Barton out.
A low percentage but still higher than I would have expected.
I'd be interested to know how many of that 11% were not particularly happy with the appointment in the first place.
Are there any fans that were delighted when we appointed Barton but would now like to see him sacked with immediate effect?
My feeling is that at least 75% of that 11% we not in favour of Barton in the first place and may never be won over.
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Post by bornagain04 on Apr 6, 2021 12:05:29 GMT
I voted in, although I didn’t want him here in the first place, he’s here now and I’ll support him as I have with the other managers. I have stopped listening to his post match interviews though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2021 12:09:36 GMT
So on the forum at least 11% of 186 fans want Barton out. A low percentage but still higher than I would have expected. I'd be interested to know how many of that 11% were not particularly happy with the appointment in the first place. Are there any fans that were delighted when we appointed Barton but would now like to see him sacked with immediate effect? My feeling is that at least 75% of that 11% we not in favour of Barton in the first place and may never be won over. Good to know that at least some support Barton leaving the club, only predict that the 11% will grow in the coming months.
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