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Post by gasandelectricity on Jun 8, 2021 20:26:05 GMT
Will have to disagree. Garner was a coach who’d never had a game in the professional realm. He had 20 odd games with a squad who had been punching at the top end of the league and got 2 wins from them. The klaxons should have been warning at that point. At least Barton has a background to him of having reasonable success at a different club and a playing career at the highest level. Barton did alright at fleetwood. Yes he had a decent budget but they’re hardly a big club. At least either way, Wael is setting out a vision and kitting us out to have a go. Even if he may be picking the wrong men to execute it. Can you tell us what vision he's setting? He's gone from Garnerball to Joey's Mates seemingly overnight. You could argue Barton will do a better job than Garner but he was hardly a great success at Fleetwood given the money he was allowed to spend. Garnerball last season. Joeys mates this season Like you’ve identified. Change of strategy but at least we’re having a go.
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Post by alanrg on Jun 8, 2021 20:26:30 GMT
Another pointless thread yet more Barton bashing I do despair
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Post by dinsdale on Jun 8, 2021 20:45:33 GMT
Another pointless thread yet more Barton bashing I do despair I have nothing against JB but i think the approach adopted is really unusual and worthy of comment. I have absolutely zero faith in Wael and Starnes mind with the amount of money spent to go backwards and this feels like an almighty gamble. Lets hope it pays off
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Post by Somersetgas on Jun 8, 2021 22:12:46 GMT
Another pointless thread yet more Barton bashing I do despair Totally disagree, it’s not pointless, nor is it bashing, Dinsdale raises some very valid points.
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Post by alanrg on Jun 8, 2021 22:29:33 GMT
Absolute nonsense
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Post by lpgas1 on Jun 8, 2021 22:41:58 GMT
Things that make Joey Barton a good appointment compared to Garner or Tisdale are this. He has played at the highest level. He has played for a number of clubs and under a number of managers. A lot of his contempories are in football, and so will have a lot of "mates"as contacts.
When he was interviewed by Wael, he went through our entire squad giving telling Wael what he thought were their strengths and weaknesses were. He told Wael where the club had gone wrong, and that was his policy to player youngsters when they are ready. Wael thought it was the best interview he had with a potential manager. He offered Joey the job.Intially Joey turned it down, but Wael guaranteed him a number of things and pursuaded him to take the job. I was told this by someone who worksat the club
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Post by socrates on Jun 8, 2021 23:03:34 GMT
This isn’t meant to be another bash Joey thread so bare with me. Does anyone else find it really odd that as a club we have given a man who has struggled to win a game as manager complete autonomy over so much of the club? From appointing directors to sacking our medical and sports science staff and operating outside of our recruitment structure. This isnt a manager with a proven track record its a big name ex player with a couple of seasons under his belt as a manager. On top of all of this is the court case his questionable temperament and our precarious position in the league. It all just feels a completely odd way of going about things and if this goes wrong we really are in the sh**. He clearly deserves a longer go as manager but all our eggs in the Joey basket is likely to result in pain down the line. If this goes tits up we are going to look incredibly silly. I thought you were going to talk about the time a shot hit the downpipe at the south stand and it fell off. Or the time Riordans free kick ended up at the bottom of muller road. But yeah if the Barton experiment goes wrong it might well end up going more wrong than the Garner experiment did which could well put us in the conference a year from now. Or .... I dont think it’s a bizzare event though. He’s decided to back the manager. That’s what a clubs owner should do. I was actually surprised when he sacked Garner because we were just starting to show signs that we might click and I was surprised that he sacked Tisdale so soon too even though it didn’t work out, but it was all over very quickly. For the record I didn’t like or rate either of those two but having three managers in a season was always going to end up with relegation.
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Post by eastgas on Jun 8, 2021 23:04:22 GMT
Tbh I don’t see this as another JB bashing thread. I am a fan of JB and hope he does well here (I think he will for what it’s worth), but the OP has raised some good points that are worth debating and a discussion. My opinion and answers to the OP are that whilst it seems we are taking a gamble, which we are, and putting all our eggs into one basket, I think to be successful you have to have trust in your management team and give them the tools they feel they require to succeed. Most of the best managers throughout the years have held a lot more responsibility and say so in how the whole football side of their club is run compared to what we see in the modern game. In any business you would not hire a manager then tie one hand behind his back by restricting them to working in a fashion they don’t believe will work. It may seem JB is surrounding himself with “mates” but if that is the people he trusts and feels he has the best chance of success with then I’m happy with that. Again you wouldn’t employ someone and then restrict them to work with the previous three managers staff that were all part of past failures. I do have concerns however and the biggest one is that when JB leaves, he takes everything with him and there is also the possibility JB could fail miserably. Unfortunately I think the position we are in we have to take the gamble as I think it’s our biggest chance of success and getting ourselves back out of this division. Our previous failure has put wael into this situation, which he has to take part blame for, and whatever he decides to do, ie continuing with the current failed project or taking a gamble on JB is a risk either way. I think the best we can do is buckle up for a turbulent ride, get behind the club, support the boys who pull on the quarters this season and hope we can get ourselves back up where we belong
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Post by Icegas on Jun 9, 2021 0:40:29 GMT
It makes more sense than when we let Garninho assemble the squad last summer. To be fair it doesnt as Garner was a rookie manager working with the support of the dof. JB is appointing directors and sacking the medical team. He is still a very inexperienced manager himself. Nah...Im sorry, Joey Barton has a record as a top player , and had "a decent start " as a manager at Fleetwood. Joey may not be everyone's cup of tea but he talks the truth and has a record FAR BETTER than GARNER...The fool! BG was our worst manager ever. The reason we are in L2 is because of the latter blagging his way into a job and creating the joke of a squad that took us down, which PT nor JB couldn't fix after him. Joey needs a season to rebuild and to try and fix what damage BG did to our club. We were 4th in L1 when that man took over, an awlful record and he still kept his job and we are now in L2.FACTS..
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Post by neogas on Jun 9, 2021 4:52:56 GMT
Yes letting JB take over the club when he struggled so badly on arrival here is an odd one. Being intelligent doesnt make you a guaranteed success just like being wealthy doesnt make you a good football club owner. That aside im looking forward to watching football again so heres hoping. Im also basically always wrong when it comes to our managers which is reassuring I saw an interesting data point today. Successful leaders intelligence is made up of cognitive ability and emotional intelligence. The split 80:20 for the best leaders. The 20% goes to IQ and not EQ. 80% of a top boss is the ability to engage, empathise with people and self manage your own emotions. Certainly backs up what you are saying!
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Post by gulfofaden on Jun 9, 2021 4:55:25 GMT
I’ve come to the conclusion that as fans we have no input and say in real terms over what happens on the appointment side of the game.
We have one choice. Either back our current squad and players or boo them.
I supported Garner. On paper it looked like a good idea. I supported Coughlan, I hated the football but he was the manager of Bristol rovers. I supported DC when he took us down, and up again. I supported Mark Mcghee, Buckle and Graydoom.
By support I mean turn up, pay and give whatever vocal noises I can to encourage them.
I’ve come to the conclusion that’s all anyone can do, and after witnessing the vile abuse to DC when he took us down (I distinctly remember a guy stood next to an 8 year old girl should “you ****$ w******* Clarke you’re a non league manager and now you’ve got a ***** non league club”).....I’ve started to come to the conclusion that it is a binary choice. Either get on the bus, of * off.
Not one person who questioned Garner, coughlan or whoever ever made a positive impact. None of them got a manager removed. None of them recruited a new one.
So, do your duty as a fan, you may have reservations and that’s fine, power to you, but I will back any manager of rovers on the principle that they’re our manager.
The fact DC had a hate mob after him just shows, negative fans most of the time are wrong and occasionally they’ll be right in the same way a stopped watch is right twice a day.
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Post by RD on Jun 9, 2021 5:00:17 GMT
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Post by gulfofaden on Jun 9, 2021 5:08:54 GMT
Yes letting JB take over the club when he struggled so badly on arrival here is an odd one. Being intelligent doesnt make you a guaranteed success just like being wealthy doesnt make you a good football club owner. That aside im looking forward to watching football again so heres hoping. Im also basically always wrong when it comes to our managers which is reassuring I saw an interesting data point today. Successful leaders intelligence is made up of cognitive ability and emotional intelligence. The split 80:20 for the best leaders. The 20% goes to IQ and not EQ. 80% of a top boss is the ability to engage, empathise with people and self manage your own emotions. Certainly backs up what you are saying! I think EQ is a cop out which is over-indulged as it’s less quantifiable and it’s a skill people can claim to have while not actually having to prove anything. It’s one of those intangible things people who don’t have discipline and demonstrable IQ based prowess such as qualifications and clearly demonstrated competencies claim to bolster their CVs. The ability to deal with people is indeed a massive asset but I’ve been managed by people who don’t know how to do the job, can’t solve problems but were “high EQ” and they were terrible managers. Just my tupoenceworth, you need both. David Brent is a prime example of someone who would have claimed to be high EQ! Just saying you need the IQ first and one follows the other usually. EQ raised the suspicion with me that it’s a way gossipy HR managers can claim their social scheming is a business asset.
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Post by neogas on Jun 9, 2021 5:52:17 GMT
I saw an interesting data point today. Successful leaders intelligence is made up of cognitive ability and emotional intelligence. The split 80:20 for the best leaders. The 20% goes to IQ and not EQ. 80% of a top boss is the ability to engage, empathise with people and self manage your own emotions. Certainly backs up what you are saying! I think EQ is a cop out which is over-indulged as it’s less quantifiable and it’s a skill people can claim to have while not actually having to prove anything. It’s one of those intangible things people who don’t have discipline and demonstrable IQ based prowess such as qualifications and clearly demonstrated competencies claim to bolster their CVs. The ability to deal with people is indeed a massive asset but I’ve been managed by people who don’t know how to do the job, can’t solve problems but were “high EQ” and they were terrible managers. Just my tupoenceworth, you need both. David Brent is a prime example of someone who would have claimed to be high EQ! Just saying you need the IQ first and one follows the other usually. EQ raised the suspicion with me that it’s a way gossipy HR managers can claim their social scheming is a business asset. I do believe we are thinking the same thing and I certainly feel that it’s a mix. I only stated a data point that I saw. I do wonder where Joey is between IQ and EQ………….
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Post by gulfofaden on Jun 9, 2021 6:16:11 GMT
I think EQ is a cop out which is over-indulged as it’s less quantifiable and it’s a skill people can claim to have while not actually having to prove anything. It’s one of those intangible things people who don’t have discipline and demonstrable IQ based prowess such as qualifications and clearly demonstrated competencies claim to bolster their CVs. The ability to deal with people is indeed a massive asset but I’ve been managed by people who don’t know how to do the job, can’t solve problems but were “high EQ” and they were terrible managers. Just my tupoenceworth, you need both. David Brent is a prime example of someone who would have claimed to be high EQ! Just saying you need the IQ first and one follows the other usually. EQ raised the suspicion with me that it’s a way gossipy HR managers can claim their social scheming is a business asset. I do believe we are thinking the same thing and I certainly feel that it’s a mix. I only stated a data point that I saw. I do wonder where Joey is between IQ and EQ…………. Yeah, just bear in mind I’m highly opinionated especially when I just wake up. Got a disease which gives me a ton of pain in the morning so you’ll notice “everything is WRONG” if I’m posting here at 5-6AM 🤣 As for Joey, it’s hard to say as he’s managing young men who I would imagine are quite confident and cocky. EQ may work a little differently than it would in a corporate context. First attitude needs to be corrected, then you can start the mentoring. When I was in my 20s my boss basically ruled me like a dictator and forced me into being disciplined. Then when I played ball and showed the right character, he’s extremely easy going now and very supportive. I guess tough love and a bit of ruthlessness is desired and young cocky men actually crave a strong bloke above them as they will run rings around anyone who has a hint of weakness, so perhaps Joey has some of those skills. He isn’t managing normal people, he’s managing footballers. GC is a good example. I wasn’t his biggest fan as the football I thought was dire but I eat my words now, it’s clear the sense of discipline he instilled, and clearly the guy isn’t someone I would argue with. The other thing to note is that according to “some bloke I met who knows someone who knows the players”....when DC left apparently the players hated getting GC as a lot didn’t like him. Just shows it’s not about being a nice bloke, sometimes it’s about being hard as nails. DC from what I saw had a good mix of both. As did Holloway. The former tilting towards being too much of one of the lads, the latter tilting towards being too much of a tyrant, but both had a mix of being tough but also someone who you could have a laugh with. Management is bloody difficult IMO which is why it pays well.
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Post by darkbluegas on Jun 9, 2021 6:16:54 GMT
This isn’t meant to be another bash Joey thread so bare with me. Does anyone else find it really odd that as a club we have given a man who has struggled to win a game as manager complete autonomy over so much of the club? From appointing directors to sacking our medical and sports science staff and operating outside of our recruitment structure. This isnt a manager with a proven track record its a big name ex player with a couple of seasons under his belt as a manager. On top of all of this is the court case his questionable temperament and our precarious position in the league. It all just feels a completely odd way of going about things and if this goes wrong we really are in the sh**. He clearly deserves a longer go as manager but all our eggs in the Joey basket is likely to result in pain down the line. If this goes tits up we are going to look incredibly silly. I think after a lifetime of following football you get to realise no one really knows what they’re doing. Its generally down to pot luck and money. I wouldn’t worry about it too much there will be another grand plan along in another couple of years.
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Post by rememberhalifax on Jun 9, 2021 6:45:37 GMT
How bizarre, how bizarre, how bizarre !
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Post by lympstonegas on Jun 9, 2021 6:59:04 GMT
This isn’t meant to be another bash Joey thread so bare with me. Does anyone else find it really odd that as a club we have given a man who has struggled to win a game as manager complete autonomy over so much of the club? From appointing directors to sacking our medical and sports science staff and operating outside of our recruitment structure. This isnt a manager with a proven track record its a big name ex player with a couple of seasons under his belt as a manager. On top of all of this is the court case his questionable temperament and our precarious position in the league. It all just feels a completely odd way of going about things and if this goes wrong we really are in the sh**. He clearly deserves a longer go as manager but all our eggs in the Joey basket is likely to result in pain down the line. If this goes tits up we are going to look incredibly silly. I think after a lifetime of following football you get to realise no one really knows what they’re doing. Its generally down to pot luck and money. I wouldn’t worry about it too much there will be another grand plan along in another couple of years. Hopefully that will be because we are in the championship then after back to back promotions and in need of a wake up call over a new ground !
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Post by Hugh Jarsole on Jun 9, 2021 7:19:11 GMT
Something has to be done and whoever does it we will find reasons why it shouldn't be them that does it. I absolutely agree the Gas has to be rebuilt from the ground up, I'm just sad it wasn't done sooner. I'm all in
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Post by stevek192 on Jun 9, 2021 8:27:06 GMT
Every appointment is a gamble.Every change of direction is a gamble. In fact in football every move is a gamble and not even the top 6 in the Country (the elite) get it right all of the time.Enjoy the ride-it is not our money Wael is spending and I would say that JB has far more chance of getting it right than Garner. Certainly based on last season there is a much greater chance of getting it right than failing!!
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