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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 18, 2021 14:00:02 GMT
You could at least try picking some countries that hadn't previously been attacked or influenced by western nations. The US backed fascist militants to de-stabilise & overthrow communist Yugoslavia, that led to civil war and the atrocities. East Timor civil war was the aftermath of Indonesia being colonised by the west. The US and UK backed all sorts of dictators in Africa in order to keep trade routes open to expoitation. That’s just categorically untrue, and anyone that makes arguments that Srebrenica was anything but the result of Serb brutality loses respect in my eyes. The US actually gave economic aid to Yugoslavia after it exited the Soviet bloc, a fact commonly forgotten. I was wondering who he meant, I just guess some only wish to see ghosts in the shadows. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 18, 2021 15:32:08 GMT
Looks like our mission has a slightly different interpretation.
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 18, 2021 15:36:20 GMT
So depressing.
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Post by e4bandrobinstubbs on Aug 18, 2021 19:35:53 GMT
And then presumably subsequently drawing the wrath of a thousand middle aged gammons. Whilst they wave the flag and singing "Land of Hope & Glory" Pathetic hate-filled ignorance by both of you. And there is no Hope or Glory for you two - you are the ones taking the submarine down, while blaming others for your sinking vessel. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Aug 18, 2021 20:02:12 GMT
Whilst they wave the flag and singing "Land of Hope & Glory" Pathetic hate-filled ignorance by both of you. And there is no Hope or Glory for you two - you are the ones taking the submarine down, while blaming others for your sinking vessel. whoosh. |
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Post by oldie on Aug 18, 2021 20:06:59 GMT
Pathetic hate-filled ignorance by both of you. And there is no Hope or Glory for you two - you are the ones taking the submarine down, while blaming others for your sinking vessel. whoosh. I think thats being a little kind Officer |
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 18, 2021 22:20:11 GMT
Well said. Don't just see the headline, well worth a listen in full, she deserves two minutes of your time.
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Aug 18, 2021 22:24:46 GMT
You could at least try picking some countries that hadn't previously been attacked or influenced by western nations. The US backed fascist militants to de-stabilise & overthrow communist Yugoslavia, that led to civil war and the atrocities. East Timor civil war was the aftermath of Indonesia being colonised by the west. The US and UK backed all sorts of dictators in Africa in order to keep trade routes open to expoitation. That’s just categorically untrue, and anyone that makes arguments that Srebrenica was anything but the result of Serb brutality loses respect in my eyes. The US actually gave economic aid to Yugoslavia after it exited the Soviet bloc, a fact commonly forgotten. Yugoslavia was never part of the soviet bloc, it was part of the non-aligned movement. |
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Post by axegas on Aug 18, 2021 22:37:02 GMT
That’s just categorically untrue, and anyone that makes arguments that Srebrenica was anything but the result of Serb brutality loses respect in my eyes. The US actually gave economic aid to Yugoslavia after it exited the Soviet bloc, a fact commonly forgotten. Yugoslavia was never part of the soviet bloc, it was part of the non-aligned movement. It was USSR aligned up until the Soviet-Yugoslav split in 1948 which is what I was referring to. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito–Stalin_split |
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 18, 2021 22:48:03 GMT
He'll only go kicking and screaming, but he has to, surely. Take Johnson and General Carter with you...
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Post by oldie on Aug 19, 2021 6:26:38 GMT
Well said. Don't just see the headline, well worth a listen in full, she deserves two minutes of your time. I watched last night. I really hope she gets her wish...hold our establishment to account. |
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Post by oldie on Aug 19, 2021 6:41:54 GMT
And what pro interventionists dont want to admit is that we, in the west, have been key causal factors in the problems in the region. Saying "why should I give a f**k about history" doesnt cut it. Given, especially, that the UK is so keen on celebrating history when it suits. But you as an anti-interventionist were particularly selective about the History you referred to earlier. House of Saud ect. So much as there are people that are keen on celebrating history as it suits, there are also people that are keen on condemning history when it suits. Both are important things to do. I’d just like a bit of balance. Balance of course, where possible. I wasnt being selective at all, I was editing my own post. I could have gone on, for example talked about A) The carve up of Mesopotamia after WW1 by the UK and France, drawing false borders and creating countries like Iraq and Syria, which has ended so well B) The betrayal of the Kurds C) The creation of Pakistan, East and West in 1948 D) The brutal suppression of Independence forces in Kenya E) Concentration Camps in South Africa Ireland, suppression...famine. All us. So, I am absolutely not against humanitarian intervention. What I, personally, hate is our establishment labelling our military interventions as such when in reality they are nothing of the sort. Now we have been defeated in Afghanistan, it was good to see soldiers calling out the political establishment and their own leadership last night live on TV. I just hope the kids saw that. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2021 8:36:45 GMT
You could at least try picking some countries that hadn't previously been attacked or influenced by western nations. The US backed fascist militants to de-stabilise & overthrow communist Yugoslavia, that led to civil war and the atrocities. East Timor civil war was the aftermath of Indonesia being colonised by the west. The US and UK backed all sorts of dictators in Africa in order to keep trade routes open to expoitation. That’s just categorically untrue, and anyone that makes arguments that Srebrenica was anything but the result of Serb brutality loses respect in my eyes. The US actually gave economic aid to Yugoslavia after it exited the Soviet bloc, a fact commonly forgotten. The US aim was to destroy communism, which they saw as a threat to their neo-colonial imperialism, the US were quite open about that. Economic aid to Yugoslavia via IMF etc. turned into massive debts when recession hit the West. There are many books written about it if you cared to broaden your horizons. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2021 8:53:48 GMT
But you as an anti-interventionist were particularly selective about the History you referred to earlier. House of Saud ect. So much as there are people that are keen on celebrating history as it suits, there are also people that are keen on condemning history when it suits. Both are important things to do. I’d just like a bit of balance. Balance of course, where possible. I wasnt being selective at all, I was editing my own post. I could have gone on, for example talked about A) The carve up of Mesopotamia after WW1 by the UK and France, drawing false borders and creating countries like Iraq and Syria, which has ended so well B) The betrayal of the Kurds C) The creation of Pakistan, East and West in 1948 D) The brutal suppression of Independence forces in Kenya E) Concentration Camps in South Africa Ireland, suppression...famine. All us. So, I am absolutely not against humanitarian intervention. What I, personally, hate is our establishment labelling our military interventions as such when in reality they are nothing of the sort. Now we have been defeated in Afghanistan, it was good to see soldiers calling out the political establishment and their own leadership last night live on TV. I just hope the kids saw that. Did you notice the fake spin about Women's rights in Afghanistan... but there is never Western government outcry about Women's rights in Saudi Arabia or Yemen or Congo etc... Saudi are actually on the UN board of human rights! |
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Post by oldie on Aug 19, 2021 9:34:04 GMT
Balance of course, where possible. I wasnt being selective at all, I was editing my own post. I could have gone on, for example talked about A) The carve up of Mesopotamia after WW1 by the UK and France, drawing false borders and creating countries like Iraq and Syria, which has ended so well B) The betrayal of the Kurds C) The creation of Pakistan, East and West in 1948 D) The brutal suppression of Independence forces in Kenya E) Concentration Camps in South Africa Ireland, suppression...famine. All us. So, I am absolutely not against humanitarian intervention. What I, personally, hate is our establishment labelling our military interventions as such when in reality they are nothing of the sort. Now we have been defeated in Afghanistan, it was good to see soldiers calling out the political establishment and their own leadership last night live on TV. I just hope the kids saw that. Did you notice the fake spin about Women's rights in Afghanistan... but there is never Western government outcry about Women's rights in Saudi Arabia or Yemen or Congo etc... Saudi are actually on the UN board of human rights! Yes But Grover, they sell us the oil we need and give us back that money by buying weaponry from military/industrial complex. Whats not to like? Their suppressed populations? f**k them, who cares. |
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Post by yattongas on Aug 19, 2021 10:53:27 GMT
Just wondering if the Tory voters on here think Raab should resign? 🤔
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2021 10:56:53 GMT
Did you notice the fake spin about Women's rights in Afghanistan... but there is never Western government outcry about Women's rights in Saudi Arabia or Yemen or Congo etc... Saudi are actually on the UN board of human rights! Yes But Grover, they sell us the oil we need and give us back that money by buying weaponry from military/industrial complex. Whats not to like? Their suppressed populations? f**k them, who cares. baffling isn't it. the nazis get 'angry' (pretend to anyway) & cry hypocrite that a 16 yo autistic girl had to use the polluting systems that are forced on all of us. the left get angry that war kills untold millions of people for profit. Choose your side. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2021 11:00:26 GMT
Just wondering if the Tory voters on here think Raab should resign? 🤔 does it even matter? if he resigns the next Eton trained scumbag will be lined up to replace him. it literally makes no difference if he resigns or not, the hegemony remains. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 19, 2021 12:00:40 GMT
We have helped in the past and no doubt will again. The RFA are regularly deployed to the Caribbean during hurricane season to land supplies and provide support. I'd also welcome more so I hope you aren't accusing me of double standards. As for not arming them in the first place, not sure the West is solely to blame, often not even that significantly either. Edited to add: RFA Wave Knight and HMS Medway are in the Caribbean and are waiting for tasking, if requested. "Edited to add: RFA Wave Knight and HMS Medway are in the Caribbean and are waiting for tasking, if requested." I bow to your greater knowledge on these matters. Not huge numbers, but Haiti has asked and we're helping. "The UK Government has today (Thursday 19 August) announced a package of up to £1 million of initial support to Haiti, as the country recovers from the recent devastating earthquake. This is in addition to significant UK contributions to the UN Central Emergency Response Fund, the Red Cross Disaster Relief Emergency Fund and the Start Fund, which have allocated funding of £5.8 million, £600,000, and £250,000 respectively. The Royal Navy ship RFA WAVE KNIGHT will also support the US contribution to the international humanitarian response. The Wave-class fast fleet tanker – part of the Royal Navy’s Royal Fleet Auxiliary (RFA) – will serve as a landing pad for US military helicopters responding to the crisis in Haiti. Following a request for international assistance from the Haitian Government, the UK will send a team of medical experts and a UK humanitarian expert is deploying from the UN to provide support." www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-support-haiti-earthquake-response-with-humanitarian-assistance-and-royal-navy-ship--2 |
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Post by oldie on Aug 19, 2021 12:48:21 GMT
"Edited to add: RFA Wave Knight and HMS Medway are in the Caribbean and are waiting for tasking, if requested." I bow to your greater knowledge on these matters. Not huge numbers, but Haiti has asked and we're helping. "The UK Government has today (Thursday 19 August) announced a package of up to £1 million of initial support to Haiti, as the country recovers from the recent devastating earthquake. This is in addition to significant UK contributions to the UN Central Emergency Response Fund, the Red Cross Disaster Relief Emergency Fund and the Start Fund, which have allocated funding of £5.8 million, £600,000, and £250,000 respectively. The Royal Navy ship RFA WAVE KNIGHT will also support the US contribution to the international humanitarian response. The Wave-class fast fleet tanker – part of the Royal Navy’s Royal Fleet Auxiliary (RFA) – will serve as a landing pad for US military helicopters responding to the crisis in Haiti. Following a request for international assistance from the Haitian Government, the UK will send a team of medical experts and a UK humanitarian expert is deploying from the UN to provide support." www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-support-haiti-earthquake-response-with-humanitarian-assistance-and-royal-navy-ship--2Great stuff. Good uses of our resources. |
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