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Post by northridinggas on Aug 22, 2021 9:00:21 GMT
Until we have a board of directors who have any idea at all what they’re doing there’s no point in sacking Barton. The club is currently doing an impression of water circling the plug hole. We’re on a downward spiral that is so difficult to arrest. We’re like one of those sea side towns that’s stuck in the 70’s, fine for a laugh on a stag weekend but you wouldn’t want to live there. No player/manager worth anything this a going to want to come here. We have an owner whose heart is n the right place but desperately needs the support of a serious businessman with football experience to help him out. All the support he’s had so far has come from gravy train passengers. The training ground is slight progress but really just a step up from Fry’s. It’s miles behind a modern day facility. The ground has become a football league national joke and currently there’s zero chance to change that. Barton must have known that his options were limited with the court case hanging over him and Covid in full swing so no blame attached to him for taking the job and he may as well just be left to get in with it. If he’s sacked we’re stuffed with another compensate bill and another clear out of players and even more expense. The most worrying thing about sacking Barton is who the hell this current board would employ next time. This bearing in mind they thought Tisdale was an excellent appointment. I think we should ride this out and concentrate on rebuilding the board at the “club” to at least move the club towards the 21st century. Excellent post and a really good summary of the problems. No one wants to critcise Wael but he is not up to the job without proper support. The only issue I have is if Barton is in any way capable of turning it round on the field.
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Post by kampucheagas on Aug 22, 2021 9:01:16 GMT
Until we have a board of directors who have any idea at all what they’re doing there’s no point in sacking Barton. The club is currently doing an impression of water circling the plug hole. We’re on a downward spiral that is so difficult to arrest. We’re like one of those sea side towns that’s stuck in the 70’s, fine for a laugh on a stag weekend but you wouldn’t want to live there. No player/manager worth anything this a going to want to come here. We have an owner whose heart is n the right place but desperately needs the support of a serious businessman with football experience to help him out. All the support he’s had so far has come from gravy train passengers. The training ground is slight progress but really just a step up from Fry’s. It’s miles behind a modern day facility. The ground has become a football league national joke and currently there’s zero chance to change that. Barton must have known that his options were limited with the court case hanging over him and Covid in full swing so no blame attached to him for taking the job and he may as well just be left to get in with it. If he’s sacked we’re stuffed with another compensate bill and another clear out of players and even more expense. The most worrying thing about sacking Barton is who the hell this current board would employ next time. This bearing in mind they thought Tisdale was an excellent appointment. I think we should ride this out and concentrate on rebuilding the board at the “club” to at least move the club towards the 21st century. Well said. We are now approaching two years of being absolute sh*te. Yes there were a few months of no games but have we ever had such a long period of time where there has been nothing to be cheerful about? Its comical in so many ways. Letting a team who haven't scored in four games score four in 25 minutes! We all know that Nichols will score when we play Crawley in a couple of weeks time. Then to make matter worse, there will be nailed on defeats against Ben Garners Swindon and Colchester where Tisdale is now employed. Scenes when we lose to Swindon!!
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Post by yaz on Aug 22, 2021 9:09:05 GMT
suppose you never saw the reception he got at stevenage then? Thats coz we want any manager to succeed and it was our first home game for ages! The tide has turned dramatically methinks after yesterday. Watch next home reception but dependent on Barrow result? Players will get clapped at start! His team selections leave me baffled bearing in mind he knows the back room issues more than I do. His substitutions are generally terrible; they don’t usually help us and last season they seemed to work against us! Also ineffective as left too late! DC and GC - 60 or 66 minutes; subs! Very rarely no! JB - if not forced into 75th if not 88 minutes? Too frigging late! I don’t think this manager understands talent or non talent? Or maybe be it’s just me? Collins and Hoole I rate! Others not yet! Always been anti Westbrook; does not do anything for me! Waste of set pieces, waste of space for us! Can’t tackle or jump! Said that from beginning! Never liked this manager from start and never wanted him! But want him to succeed! So far, absolute shiiite? Wilder or Warnock or similar is what we need? Managers with experience who know how to judge good players?
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Aug 22, 2021 9:09:14 GMT
Agree. The same board that thought that Garner, Tisdale and Barton were great ideas are hardly going to get us out of this mess. If I were Wael I'd be starting again before we end up in the conference again with no DC this time.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 22, 2021 9:21:27 GMT
Until we have a board of directors who have any idea at all what they’re doing there’s no point in sacking Barton. The club is currently doing an impression of water circling the plug hole. We’re on a downward spiral that is so difficult to arrest. We’re like one of those sea side towns that’s stuck in the 70’s, fine for a laugh on a stag weekend but you wouldn’t want to live there. No player/manager worth anything this a going to want to come here. We have an owner whose heart is n the right place but desperately needs the support of a serious businessman with football experience to help him out. All the support he’s had so far has come from gravy train passengers. The training ground is slight progress but really just a step up from Fry’s. It’s miles behind a modern day facility. The ground has become a football league national joke and currently there’s zero chance to change that. Barton must have known that his options were limited with the court case hanging over him and Covid in full swing so no blame attached to him for taking the job and he may as well just be left to get in with it. If he’s sacked we’re stuffed with another compensate bill and another clear out of players and even more expense. The most worrying thing about sacking Barton is who the hell this current board would employ next time. This bearing in mind they thought Tisdale was an excellent appointment. I think we should ride this out and concentrate on rebuilding the board at the “club” to at least move the club towards the 21st century. Well said. We are now approaching two years of being absolute sh*te. Yes there were a few months of no games but have we ever had such a long period of time where there has been nothing to be cheerful about? Its comical in so many ways. Letting a team who haven't scored in four games score four in 25 minutes! We all know that Nichols will score when we play Crawley in a couple of weeks time. Then to make matter worse, there will be nailed on defeats against Ben Garners Swindon and Colchester where Tisdale is now employed. But how those the BoD have any direct control over the fact our defence turned up yesterday as if they'd only met in the centre circle, was the club really any better run when Higgs was the owner but we still managed to get promoted and then continue that run the following season before getting promoted again under Wael and then becoming a mid table L1 for two season, we also seemed to be doing OK under GC for his 46 games in charge? As far as the OP suggesting training ground being "miles from a modern day facility" how does that comment fit in with Collins saying on Friday that its got probably the best gym in L2 and the pitches are probably better than most in L1, what's actually wrong with it compared to most other clubs at L2 level?
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 22, 2021 9:26:02 GMT
Agree. The same board that thought that Garner, Tisdale and Barton were great ideas are hardly going to get us out of this mess. If I were Wael I'd be starting again before we end up in the conference again with no DC this time. Garner's seems to be doing OK at Swindon, Tisdale had a reasonable reputation as did Barton, as a manager, it's not like we've employed 3 clowns like Leeds have done in the past.
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Post by oldie on Aug 22, 2021 9:37:28 GMT
Agree. The same board that thought that Garner, Tisdale and Barton were great ideas are hardly going to get us out of this mess. If I were Wael I'd be starting again before we end up in the conference again with no DC this time. Thats my fear. DC knew non league, judging Barton so far, he appears not to know any league.
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Post by stevek192 on Aug 22, 2021 10:02:37 GMT
Come on people Pirate is entitled to change his mind. Be fair nhe has nrecommended 250,000 players we should have signed! How many of those players have actually gone on to be successful? A football manager does not have the luxury to be able to sign every Tom,Dick and Harry and then realise three quarters of them are no good whatsoever. It is very easy to put together a video of even the average park player and make them look good. Whether JB is the right man for the job who knows? Results since he has been here would say NO in a very similar way to what results in the season before last said that BG should never have been employed for last season but the Owner has made a decision and we are now in the position that we have Joey Bartons team of both players and coaches and it is not difficult to see glimpses of very good players there but the big question is can they gel into a good unit? From experience of many seasons following Rovers and football in general there comes a time where you have to say that a project isn't working howeverfour games into a season with a bran d new team is nowhere near long enough to make a decision. There is not a better example of this than last season.Forget who the Managers were just name them A,B and C where A started a project on the back of a poor period managing somebody elses players the season before. A rebuilt the club with the majority of his own players and after an average to poor start was replaced by Manager B(a proven manager) who in fact produced worse results AND with the benefit of the January window which resulted in Manager C who had no control over personnel,lost the best player we did have to injury and then ended up with the worst results of the three. Each time on this forum the majority were in favour of the sacking of the Manager but now we can all look back and see that results prove we would havr been better off keeping Manager A and giving him the benefit of the January window and we would probably have stayed up. Rightly or wrongly you have to forget the results from last season and now have to only count from the start of the project. I think with a new project if at all possible you have to give the Manager at least two windows to alter things. JBs first window is not even up yet and some people are saying sack him- probably the same people who were saying sack Managers A and B last season!! IMO we have made our bed and now have to lie in it and hope. It is very easy to look at 4 results and want a Manager out- Oldham supporters are doing the same thing- it was the same under DC (Office Barbrady take note) and that was after 12 games in the Conferance! Remember it is not OUR money that is at stake here but every project costs a lot of money. Wael cannot afford to throw another project under a bus, it is easy for us as supporters to say sack the Manager but somebody has to pay for it and after 4 results it mis impossible to judge success or failure. IMO it is very much a case of judging a project at the end of a season unless you reach a stage where you have to make a decision when it is obvious that a project is not going to work out.
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Post by peterhooper57 on Aug 22, 2021 10:14:37 GMT
Tbf Joey said it will take a few matches before we have a team on the pitch playing and winning in the manner we would all like. Personally, I saw enough during the first 45 against the Latics to convince me he may well be right. I do not understand why when we have a bad result fans simply want to look back on even worse times. I say give Joey, the manager a chance, and get behind the team.
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Post by playtowin on Aug 22, 2021 10:25:10 GMT
Tell us what he did at Fleetwood. Please. Bottled the playoffs? Yep,bottled the league one playoffs. Just like Gerry Francis ,Ian Holloway and John Ward did at Rovers....losers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 10:26:30 GMT
Yep,bottled the league one playoffs. Just like Gerry Francis ,Ian Holloway and John Ward did at Rovers....losers. Do not compare Barton to Gerry 😂
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Post by playtowin on Aug 22, 2021 10:29:25 GMT
The guy has basically had half a season and won 4 games!!!! Worse than Garner FFS. I hate all this give him 10/15 games bollocks. He’s had more than that! yeah have a think back and tell me, other than DC, when has giving a failing manager 10 games EVER worked? Ever? You could also say when has sacking a manager ever produced a promotion chasing team that season ?
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 22, 2021 10:39:09 GMT
yeah have a think back and tell me, other than DC, when has giving a failing manager 10 games EVER worked? Ever? You could also say when has sacking a manager ever produced a promotion chasing team that season ? Sure, but that would arguably be because we usually wait until December to get rid. If you're bottom 6, say, in December, then it's unlikely that you'll be able to pick it up to get in the playoffs. Eg, when GC took over we went about as well as we could and ended up midtable. He had the best record in the EFL (I believe) during his year in charge, had we, say, sacked DC in September, then that record would have got us in the playoffs. This is obviously just bullshit devil's advocate, though, just talking statistically. There's no way I'm suggesting we should have actually got rid of DC in September, that would never have worked, and would have left a very bad taste that I doubt the club would have recovered from in the same way.
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Post by oldie on Aug 22, 2021 10:45:05 GMT
Come on people Pirate is entitled to change his mind. Be fair nhe has nrecommended 250,000 players we should have signed! How many of those players have actually gone on to be successful? A football manager does not have the luxury to be able to sign every Tom,Dick and Harry and then realise three quarters of them are no good whatsoever. It is very easy to put together a video of even the average park player and make them look good. Whether JB is the right man for the job who knows? Results since he has been here would say NO in a very similar way to what results in the season before last said that BG should never have been employed for last season but the Owner has made a decision and we are now in the position that we have Joey Bartons team of both players and coaches and it is not difficult to see glimpses of very good players there but the big question is can they gel into a good unit? From experience of many seasons following Rovers and football in general there comes a time where you have to say that a project isn't working howeverfour games into a season with a bran d new team is nowhere near long enough to make a decision. There is not a better example of this than last season.Forget who the Managers were just name them A,B and C where A started a project on the back of a poor period managing somebody elses players the season before. A rebuilt the club with the majority of his own players and after an average to poor start was replaced by Manager B(a proven manager) who in fact produced worse results AND with the benefit of the January window which resulted in Manager C who had no control over personnel,lost the best player we did have to injury and then ended up with the worst results of the three. Each time on this forum the majority were in favour of the sacking of the Manager but now we can all look back and see that results prove we would havr been better off keeping Manager A and giving him the benefit of the January window and we would probably have stayed up. Rightly or wrongly you have to forget the results from last season and now have to only count from the start of the project. I think with a new project if at all possible you have to give the Manager at least two windows to alter things. JBs first window is not even up yet and some people are saying sack him- probably the same people who were saying sack Managers A and B last season!! IMO we have made our bed and now have to lie in it and hope. It is very easy to look at 4 results and want a Manager out- Oldham supporters are doing the same thing- it was the same under DC (Office Barbrady take note) and that was after 12 games in the Conferance! Remember it is not OUR money that is at stake here but every project costs a lot of money. Wael cannot afford to throw another project under a bus, it is easy for us as supporters to say sack the Manager but somebody has to pay for it and after 4 results it mis impossible to judge success or failure. IMO it is very much a case of judging a project at the end of a season unless you reach a stage where you have to make a decision when it is obvious that a project is not going to work out. All well and good in retrospect. But it does appear that our board of directors are quite inept in their recruitment of our managers. They over promised and failed to deliver, thus losing the trust of DC, who then went off the rails. God knows what went on with Coughlan. A huge risk with Garner, why oh why did they not bring in a DoF as we did with Trollope? Tisdale was a lazy, panic appointment and now, worse than all, they have recruited a gobby, incompetent, lunatic. Wael needs to step away and act as an arms length investor. Appoint a small BoD that actually knows what they are doing within of a (cough) professional football club.
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Post by playtowin on Aug 22, 2021 10:46:55 GMT
Yep,bottled the league one playoffs. Just like Gerry Francis ,Ian Holloway and John Ward did at Rovers....losers. Do not compare Barton to Gerry 😂 Francis was rubbish to start with and the club was heading swiftly towards the relegation zone. Until the Sunderland game changed everything which lead to a run of results leaving rovers in 8th. Before that game you could have thought GF was not cut out to manage as he had already relegated Exeter the year before. 20th feb 1988 rovers sat in 20th spot out of the relegation zone on goal difference. W1 D2 L6 being the last 9 results in league and cup. Next game the league leaders. The manager had already relegated his previous club. Do we give the manager more games or sack him now and hope for the new manager boost ? Current logic would say sack him. Good job we didnt !
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Post by rememberhalifax on Aug 22, 2021 11:04:17 GMT
Tbf Joey said it will take a few matches before we have a team on the pitch playing and winning in the manner we would all like. Personally, I saw enough during the first 45 against the Latics to convince me he may well be right. I do not understand why when we have a bad result fans simply want to look back on even worse times. I say give Joey, the manager a chance, and get behind the team. He has indeed said many times that it will take a while , he has even said as long as up to Christmas, so the folk who want us to be leading the pack after a few games are obviously disappointed, at the other end of the spectrum there will be fans of clubs who have hit the ground running dreaming of winning the league by a distance. A lot of fans of the latter will end up very disappointed and of the former rewarded for there patience, the Championship table after 5 games last season looked wonderful for our neighbours, not quite so good after 46 games though! Just as the victory over Oldham did not mean every thing was perfect, a mad 25 mins yesterday does not spell disaster.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 11:22:41 GMT
Yep,bottled the league one playoffs. Just like Gerry Francis ,Ian Holloway and John Ward did at Rovers....losers. Do not compare Barton to Gerry 😂 Or any other decent human being.
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Post by oldie on Aug 22, 2021 11:27:07 GMT
Tbf Joey said it will take a few matches before we have a team on the pitch playing and winning in the manner we would all like. Personally, I saw enough during the first 45 against the Latics to convince me he may well be right. I do not understand why when we have a bad result fans simply want to look back on even worse times. I say give Joey, the manager a chance, and get behind the team. He has indeed said many times that it will take a while , he has even said as long as up to Christmas, so the folk who want us to be leading the pack after a few games are obviously disappointed, at the other end of the spectrum there will be fans of clubs who have hit the ground running dreaming of winning the league by a distance. A lot of fans of the latter will end up very disappointed and of the former rewarded for there patience, the Championship table after 5 games last season looked wonderful for our neighbours, not quite so good after 46 games though! Just as the victory over Oldham did not mean every thing was perfect, a mad 25 mins yesterday does not spell disaster. What is it, 4 wins out of 23, and two of those were in his first half dozen games here, with the squad he slagged off? His squad, which he told us will be the fittest after pre season, are now one win four. So he told us we would not be relegated, we were. He told us our new squad would be prepared, fit and ready for the start of the season..they are not. Leaving aside his personal failings, what evidence can you provide that would generate any sort of confidence that he knows what he is doing? Other than blind faith.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 22, 2021 11:35:52 GMT
He has indeed said many times that it will take a while , he has even said as long as up to Christmas, so the folk who want us to be leading the pack after a few games are obviously disappointed, at the other end of the spectrum there will be fans of clubs who have hit the ground running dreaming of winning the league by a distance. A lot of fans of the latter will end up very disappointed and of the former rewarded for there patience, the Championship table after 5 games last season looked wonderful for our neighbours, not quite so good after 46 games though! Just as the victory over Oldham did not mean every thing was perfect, a mad 25 mins yesterday does not spell disaster. What is it, 4 wins out of 23, and two of those were in his first half dozen games here, with the squad he slagged off? His squad, which he told us will be the fittest after pre season, are now one win four. So he told us we would not be relegated, we were. He told us our new squad would be prepared, fit and ready for the start of the season..they are not. Leaving aside his personal failings, what evidence can you provide that would generate any sort of confidence that he knows what he is doing? Other than blind faith. Indeed. He has not been here long, and yet he already has a growing list of bold claims and predictions that have come back and made him look silly. What's the betting that his claim of "I know we'll get promoted" also comes back to bite him. In some ways I admire his confidence, but it takes more than confidence to see a project through. If you can't back it up with the processes and techniques to actually succeed, you end up looking like a deluded fantasist. I really hope he turns it round, but I wish he would cut out the ridiculous statements that have no basis in reality.
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Post by oldie on Aug 22, 2021 11:55:51 GMT
What is it, 4 wins out of 23, and two of those were in his first half dozen games here, with the squad he slagged off? His squad, which he told us will be the fittest after pre season, are now one win four. So he told us we would not be relegated, we were. He told us our new squad would be prepared, fit and ready for the start of the season..they are not. Leaving aside his personal failings, what evidence can you provide that would generate any sort of confidence that he knows what he is doing? Other than blind faith. Indeed. He has not been here long, and yet he already has a growing list of bold claims and predictions that have come back and made him look silly. What's the betting that his claim of "I know we'll get promoted" also comes back to bite him. In some ways I admire his confidence, but it takes more than confidence to see a project through. If you can't back it up with the processes and techniques to actually succeed, you end up looking like a deluded fantasist. I really hope he turns it round, but I wish he would cut out the ridiculous statements that have no basis in reality. All of that Jomo. Except I dont agree he expresses confidence in himself. His words and body language read more like someone who his desperately trying to convince himself that he is right. This might explain why he lashes out when cornered.
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