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Post by oldie on Aug 22, 2021 20:46:12 GMT
I have my theory why some people find him attractive, but its not particularly flattering. There is a common denominator. Oh dear, you're stooping even lower now than I thought capable. Please enlighten us with the details of your 'theory'. Because some of us do not want Rovers to lose the next two games as you do in order to achieve your Barton sacking objective we somehow find him 'attractive' whatever that means. I'm prepared to give him a chance over the next month or two, if he fails he can go and likewise if ends up in jail he should go. So tell me what is this common denominator you refer to? 'vile scum'? 'disgusting human being'? 'scumbag'? Which one am I for not thinking that the immediate sacking of Barton is the best action for the club? I appear to have rattled your cage. I am really not interested in arguing with you, nor engaging in "straw man" debates. As I have said elsewhere and to others, you are entitled to your opinion. I have mine.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 20:53:57 GMT
Oh dear, you're stooping even lower now than I thought capable. Please enlighten us with the details of your 'theory'. Because some of us do not want Rovers to lose the next two games as you do in order to achieve your Barton sacking objective we somehow find him 'attractive' whatever that means. I'm prepared to give him a chance over the next month or two, if he fails he can go and likewise if ends up in jail he should go. So tell me what is this common denominator you refer to? 'vile scum'? 'disgusting human being'? 'scumbag'? Which one am I for not thinking that the immediate sacking of Barton is the best action for the club? I appear to have rattled your cage. I am really not interested in arguing with you, nor engaging in "straw man" debates. As I have said elsewhere and to others, you are entitled to your opinion. I have mine. I'm not looking for an argument, I just wish to be enlightened on your theory and have asked a question about your 'common denominator'.
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Post by oldie on Aug 22, 2021 20:58:30 GMT
I appear to have rattled your cage. I am really not interested in arguing with you, nor engaging in "straw man" debates. As I have said elsewhere and to others, you are entitled to your opinion. I have mine. I'm not looking for an argument, I just wish to be enlightened on your theory and have asked a question about your 'common denominator'. Wish away. Your response was unnecessarily aggressive so I am not interested in interacting with you, your intent was clear by your own choice of vocabulary.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 21:03:43 GMT
I'm not looking for an argument, I just wish to be enlightened on your theory and have asked a question about your 'common denominator'. Wish away. Your response was unnecessarily aggressive so I am not interested in interacting with you, your intent was clear by your own choice of vocabulary. Not aggressive at all, just responding to your horrible assertion with a couple of questions. If you are unable or unwilling to back up your comments that's fine too!
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Post by gashead4ever on Aug 22, 2021 21:04:37 GMT
wimbledon had a proper strick in pigott we had a bunch of Dam pussy we were a lost cause no could of saved us last year teams your talking about had better players than us we were appallingYes, we were appalling yet we were above all of these teams when their new managers took over. We were not even in the relegation zone. Yes Wimbledon had Pigott but they were still below us even with Pigott. Their new managers came in and got the best out of the players they inherited. So not counting JB's stats last season because they were not his players is just an excuse for JB because he failed to get the best out of what he inherited. He gave up and didn't even try in those last 10 games or so. Blaming everyone for everything and slagging the players off. Good managers know how to get the best out of players regardless if they signed them or not. Slagging them off when you know they are all you have was always going to end in failure, which it did. People need to stop saying they were not his players. He became their manager so therefore they became his players. He took over them out of the relegation and while other clubs improved, we got worse. whats happening with paul cook then ?
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Post by cj on Aug 22, 2021 21:06:25 GMT
Yes, we were appalling yet we were above all of these teams when their new managers took over. We were not even in the relegation zone. Yes Wimbledon had Pigott but they were still below us even with Pigott. Their new managers came in and got the best out of the players they inherited. So not counting JB's stats last season because they were not his players is just an excuse for JB because he failed to get the best out of what he inherited. He gave up and didn't even try in those last 10 games or so. Blaming everyone for everything and slagging the players off. Good managers know how to get the best out of players regardless if they signed them or not. Slagging them off when you know they are all you have was always going to end in failure, which it did. People need to stop saying they were not his players. He became their manager so therefore they became his players. He took over them out of the relegation and while other clubs improved, we got worse. whats happening with paul cook then ? Don't know. Enlighten me. I've not been paying attention to him.
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Post by gashead4ever on Aug 22, 2021 21:11:41 GMT
whats happening with paul cook then ? Don't know. Enlighten me. I've not been paying attention to him. he was awful when he took over ipswich slated his players had a massive clear brought loads in and still hasnt won a game this season hes probably best manager in lower 2 leagues hes struggling atm these things take time
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 22, 2021 21:19:15 GMT
Burton brought in 9 players, Barton was stuck with BG's youngsters then quickly lost Oztimur and Nicholson with Hanlan carrying an injury. Until he loss all them we looked like we might stay up. If your going to make comparisons at least make them fair comparisons. Back to Hasslebank, Burton have won 3 out of 4 this season, whereas in his last job at Northampton he had a win ratio of just 23.8. Let's try Wimbledon then. Hired their manager 5 days before we hired JB. So no transfer window and had to use the squad that he inherited. We were out of the relegation and they were below us in the bottom 4. They ended up 13 points ahead of us and they survived. The manager didn't publicly slag off the players etc to make make the moral and confidence of the players even lower. Instead he got the best out of the players and completed his objective which was to stay up.
How about Northampton. Hired their manager 11 days before we hired JB. Again the transfer window was shut and had to use the squad he inherited. They were 2nd bottom just above Burton. The new manager got 21 points finishing 7 points ahead of Rovers. They still got relegated but he got what he could from the players he inherited and missed out on survival by just 3 points putting up a good fight.
Even Swindon. Their caretaker manager was given just 4 games until the end of the season. They didn't survive but he won 2 of the games getting a 50% win percentage. So last season alone, Swindon's caretaker won 2 in 4 getting 6 points from 12. While JB won 3 in 18 at Rovers last season getting 11 points from 54. Even a caretaker manager got the best from the players he inherited. They even scored 8 in those 4 games while the position JB slagged off the most failed to score in 11 of those 18 games.
Again, my whole point is a good manager gets the best from the players regardless if he had signed them or not.
Barton was getting the best from his players when we beat Wimbledon we all thought we would stay up, but shortly afterwards we lost Rodman, Ozt and Nicholson, did Wimbledon etc suffer such ill luck with injuries? Even Hanlan was carrying an injury. Although I couldn't really careless about last season now as Wael decided to standby Barton this summer not members of Gaschat, so all we can do is look at this season's form, in my view Barton's got the next two games to get at least 2 or 3 pts, anything less and it'll be hard to see how he can continue, although Wael's problem then will be the transfer window will have closed and any new manager will have to work with Barton's players.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 22, 2021 21:20:37 GMT
whats happening with paul cook then ? Don't know. Enlighten me. I've not been paying attention to him. So you've look up Wimbledon's etc results last season but can't check Ipswich's this season?
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Aug 22, 2021 21:29:53 GMT
I'm not looking for an argument, I just wish to be enlightened on your theory and have asked a question about your 'common denominator'. Wish away. Your response was unnecessarily aggressive so I am not interested in interacting with you, your intent was clear by your own choice of vocabulary. Good decision I agree.
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Post by cj on Aug 22, 2021 21:33:16 GMT
Don't know. Enlighten me. I've not been paying attention to him. he was awful when he took over ipswich slated his players had a massive clear brought loads in and still hasnt won a game this season hes probably best manager in lower 2 leagues hes struggling atm these things take time Not every manager suits a club. Ipswich and Cook just may not suit each other. Sounds like they both could do with a fresh start to me before it gets too late. Don't Ipswich have a lot of money issues? Perhaps they can't afford to sack him. Football is a result lead business. I think (don't quote me here) but it's something like just under 2 years is the average time a manager is in charge of a club for. If it ain't working, clubs act quickly. Just because we sacked 2 managers, doesn't mean we now have to stick with the 3rd. If the 3rd turns out to be worse then why are we sticking with him. Oh well.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 22, 2021 21:39:47 GMT
I think (don't quote me here) but it's something like just under 2 years is the average time a manager is in charge of a club for. Found the figures for 2016-17, the managers dismissed that year were in the job for an average of 1.16 years.
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Post by cj on Aug 22, 2021 21:43:36 GMT
Let's try Wimbledon then. Hired their manager 5 days before we hired JB. So no transfer window and had to use the squad that he inherited. We were out of the relegation and they were below us in the bottom 4. They ended up 13 points ahead of us and they survived. The manager didn't publicly slag off the players etc to make make the moral and confidence of the players even lower. Instead he got the best out of the players and completed his objective which was to stay up.
How about Northampton. Hired their manager 11 days before we hired JB. Again the transfer window was shut and had to use the squad he inherited. They were 2nd bottom just above Burton. The new manager got 21 points finishing 7 points ahead of Rovers. They still got relegated but he got what he could from the players he inherited and missed out on survival by just 3 points putting up a good fight.
Even Swindon. Their caretaker manager was given just 4 games until the end of the season. They didn't survive but he won 2 of the games getting a 50% win percentage. So last season alone, Swindon's caretaker won 2 in 4 getting 6 points from 12. While JB won 3 in 18 at Rovers last season getting 11 points from 54. Even a caretaker manager got the best from the players he inherited. They even scored 8 in those 4 games while the position JB slagged off the most failed to score in 11 of those 18 games.
Again, my whole point is a good manager gets the best from the players regardless if he had signed them or not.
Barton was getting the best from his players when we beat Wimbledon we all thought we would stay up, but shortly afterwards we lost Rodman, Ozt and Nicholson, did Wimbledon etc suffer such ill luck with injuries? Even Hanlan was carrying an injury. Although I couldn't really careless about last season now as Wael decided to standby Barton this summer not members of Gaschat, so all we can do is look at this season's form, in my view Barton's got the next two games to get at least 2 or 3 pts, anything less and it'll be hard to see how he can continue, although Wael's problem then will be the transfer window will have closed and any new manager will have to work with Barton's players. Barton has never got the best from his players at Rovers. Not all of us thought we would stay up. Injuries happen to every club. The players you listed, only Nicholson was a 1st team regular. Fair enough about not caring about last season. It is gone after all, nothing can be changed. So I agree. But he should still be judged by he performance from last season. Which was my original point to someone else before you joined in. I think even if Wael sacks him tomorrow, it will take a few weeks most likely to get a new manager in so window will be shut for them. Just got to hope if a new manager comes in, they know how to get the best from the players because ultimately, they will be judged on that. Any sacking and new appointment is a gamble of course. But its a gamble that I am will to take.
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Post by cj on Aug 22, 2021 21:58:18 GMT
Don't know. Enlighten me. I've not been paying attention to him. So you've look up Wimbledon's etc results last season but can't check Ipswich's this season? I actually looked up ages ago details of Wimbledon and Burton and gave this info to kruger in a private chat that we had about the whole situation. It was actually nice to have a chat, not even a debate or argument but just a good chat with someone who had very different opinions from myself. We got on well. Shame others on here on both sides can't do the same. I just went into my messages and copied and pasted. I haven't even mentioned their results for this season as they are not in our league. I haven't been paying any attention to League 1 full stop so I don't have a clue what is going on about Ipswich. If someone wants to talk to me about them, Im game for that but I need to know what they specifically meant about their very vague question. I didn't ignore him, like some do, I asked him to enlighten me so I can engage with him. What is the problem with that?
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Post by cj on Aug 22, 2021 22:03:05 GMT
I think (don't quote me here) but it's something like just under 2 years is the average time a manager is in charge of a club for. Found the figures for 2016-17, the managers dismissed that year were in the job for an average of 1.16 years. Ouch! Was that just in one league? I knew it was low but wasn't expecting that low. I thought like 1 year 11 months or something. Wonder of its still like this now 3-4 years on.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 22, 2021 22:24:03 GMT
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Post by aghast on Aug 22, 2021 23:05:19 GMT
Yes he made signings. I have had the same conversation elsewhere. He still used players that he inherited so the point still stands. So, he was able to get the best out of the players he inherited. He was also able to get the best out of the players he signed. Then he was able to get them all to gel together really quickly, none of this need 10 games or 4 months to gel crap. He got them all quickly working together to gain 28 points more than what we did in that period. 28 points more. 28 points is not far off how many points we got in the entire season. He managed to do that with a club rock bottom looking dead and buried short of moral and confidence. Did he go in slagging off players/coaches/ex manager or did he work with the players working with their strengths and got the best out of them? My whole point is if you are a good manager, you can work with players and get the best out of them regardless if you signed them or not. JB has proved he can't get the best out of players regardless if he signed them or not. Your changing your POV to suit your anti Barton agenda, let's face it if Tisdale had just signed Stockley we may still be a L1 side with PT at the helm and that's just one additional signing. Adding extra players to the squad in January seems far easier than building an entirely new squad in the summer. Just a little bit weird that you accuse someone of having an anti Barton agenda when most of your recent posts on him seem to fall neatly into that category.
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Aug 23, 2021 9:32:01 GMT
Let's try Wimbledon then. Hired their manager 5 days before we hired JB. So no transfer window and had to use the squad that he inherited. We were out of the relegation and they were below us in the bottom 4. They ended up 13 points ahead of us and they survived. The manager didn't publicly slag off the players etc to make make the moral and confidence of the players even lower. Instead he got the best out of the players and completed his objective which was to stay up.
How about Northampton. Hired their manager 11 days before we hired JB. Again the transfer window was shut and had to use the squad he inherited. They were 2nd bottom just above Burton. The new manager got 21 points finishing 7 points ahead of Rovers. They still got relegated but he got what he could from the players he inherited and missed out on survival by just 3 points putting up a good fight.
Even Swindon. Their caretaker manager was given just 4 games until the end of the season. They didn't survive but he won 2 of the games getting a 50% win percentage. So last season alone, Swindon's caretaker won 2 in 4 getting 6 points from 12. While JB won 3 in 18 at Rovers last season getting 11 points from 54. Even a caretaker manager got the best from the players he inherited. They even scored 8 in those 4 games while the position JB slagged off the most failed to score in 11 of those 18 games.
Again, my whole point is a good manager gets the best from the players regardless if he had signed them or not.
Good stuff CJ Super !
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Post by oldie on Aug 23, 2021 9:36:44 GMT
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Post by totterdownexile on Aug 23, 2021 10:29:37 GMT
Orient fan in peace. I've visited the Mem many times as I used to live in Totterdown and it's sad to see the state Rovers are in. There's clearly problems that are bigger than Barton. Your Chairman has put money in so I'm told. We had a Chairman who put money in once called Becchetti and we ended up in the Conference and nearly bankrupt. Money spent unwisely can cause huge damage to a club. On top of a dysfunctional situation the board appoint Barton. A man who's clearly about to come apart at the seams. His interview with Twentyman where he quoted Orwell in response to GT's question about why he slated previous managers spoke volumes. Maybe it's easier to see as an outsider but the man's clearly stark raving mad and has reached the point where he'll destroy anything he goes anywhere near. His only real interest is the marketing of Joey Barton as a misunderstood genius. Football is a small world and you'll find the number of people giving him a very wide berth continues to grow. He's running out of people he can fool. Getting rid of him on it's own won't solve all of the problems at Rovers but if you don't get rid of him you'll end up in the National League. Hope for Rovers sake that doesn't happen.
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