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Post by lastminutewinner on Sept 26, 2022 14:12:54 GMT
A few things on that, how do we know they are not good enough? not given a chance Alex Scott was not all that in under 18's many couldn't believe at City he was offered a pro deal but then given a chance and showed he could do it! Same as Tommy Connway, didn't pull up any trees at 18 at yate Town scored 2 in 12 Games, and at 19 scored 4 in 19 at Bath. Harvey Greenslade has had 1 Goal 1 assist in first 2 Games at Chippenham But City Give these lads a chance and it raises them! At 16's and 18's Rovers used to get the better of our rivals and when we beat them in the severnside cup at the Mem haven't played us since! And to say they are not good enough When we have such superstars as Marquis who couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo and Loft is about as technically gifted as a house brick is a laughable statement as they are given chances week after week and makes our club a laughing stock. Like i said before, in and earlier meesage our first 11 couldn't beat our 23's side at the start of the season, when chucking on 3 16 year olds at the end...And Jones and Greenslade in that match even stood out (although not hard) and thats with them being played out of position so who is good enough?? If all this is true and we have so many great youngsters why is it that when they leave do we not see them reappear in the EFL? It’s always Chippenham, Gloucester standard. Surely if they were that good they’d get trials elsewhere and make it as pro’s. JB and his staff are not stupid, they see them day in day out. If any stood out and were considered likely to be far better than what we have then they’d get picked. If we had players of the quality of Stewart, Yates, Browning, Taylor coming through they’d get picked. If our cast offs are that good we can expect Chipppenham, Gloucester and Kings Lynn to be in the EFL within a couple of years. It seems the only argument for playing them is when we are on a bad run and “couldn’t do much worse” comments get thrown about. Just for clarity I’m as desperate as anyone for some top quality young talent to come through the ranks in to the first team but for some reason over the past 30 years the players in our system have been second rate. As Holloway said recently, other clubs are taking the pick of the south west based youngsters and leaving us picking up the scraps. It begs the question why bother, many better clubs than us dont. Agree with everything you have said.
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Post by gasmania on Sept 26, 2022 14:20:43 GMT
Always is nice to see a homegrown youngster breakthrough into the first team. Saw Plymouth yesterday not afraid to sub on one of their 17 year old academy players in a big top of the table match with the score still in the balance as well.
Hopefully, we are able to get another few through to the first team soon 🤞
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Post by gasyouthwatch on Sept 26, 2022 14:28:49 GMT
A few things on that, how do we know they are not good enough? not given a chance Alex Scott was not all that in under 18's many couldn't believe at City he was offered a pro deal but then given a chance and showed he could do it! Same as Tommy Connway, didn't pull up any trees at 18 at yate Town scored 2 in 12 Games, and at 19 scored 4 in 19 at Bath. Harvey Greenslade has had 1 Goal 1 assist in first 2 Games at Chippenham But City Give these lads a chance and it raises them! At 16's and 18's Rovers used to get the better of our rivals and when we beat them in the severnside cup at the Mem haven't played us since! And to say they are not good enough When we have such superstars as Marquis who couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo and Loft is about as technically gifted as a house brick is a laughable statement as they are given chances week after week and makes our club a laughing stock. Like i said before, in and earlier meesage our first 11 couldn't beat our 23's side at the start of the season, when chucking on 3 16 year olds at the end...And Jones and Greenslade in that match even stood out (although not hard) and thats with them being played out of position so who is good enough?? If all this is true and we have so many great youngsters why is it that when they leave do we not see them reappear in the EFL? It’s always Chippenham, Gloucester standard. Surely if they were that good they’d get trials elsewhere and make it as pro’s. JB and his staff are not stupid, they see them day in day out. If any stood out and were considered likely to be far better than what we have then they’d get picked. If we had players of the quality of Stewart, Yates, Browning, Taylor coming through they’d get picked. If our cast offs are that good we can expect Chipppenham, Gloucester and Kings Lynn to be in the EFL within a couple of years. It seems the only argument for playing them is when we are on a bad run and “couldn’t do much worse” comments get thrown about. Just for clarity I’m as desperate as anyone for some top quality young talent to come through the ranks in to the first team but for some reason over the past 30 years the players in our system have been second rate. I guess its all about opinions, but at the end of the day unless you push and test these players they are almost being prepared to fail. I go on facts and numbers and there is nothing to prove the crop of players we have bought in at the start of the season in a panic are any better than we have. Normally the first years and second years are stood around in Training being manikins for the so called First team so how would they know. I know for a fact that the technical ability of 3 of the lads there is right up if not better than some. I think the the passion and the pure desire to succeed at your boyhood club would totally out weigh some of the sh**e i have watched of a Saturday afternoon! And your first team will never get better if the kids aren't thrown in to try and win their place in the team. Now if they are sh**e then I will be the first to say sorry kid you are not good enough but you must give them a chance! If Jones for example was to start and given the chances that Westbrook has had and puts 2 or 3 on a plate for Collins or Loft and we win, What message does that send out to Whelan, Evans and Co.. But not trying is a real shame for the future of the Club and would also help hugely for the finances going forwards. I think we need to be Braver or at best Start a 23's Team and let Whelan Run it and lets see what we really have!
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Post by gasyouthwatch on Sept 26, 2022 14:30:39 GMT
Always is nice to see a homegrown youngster breakthrough into the first team. Saw Plymouth yesterday not afraid to sub on one of their 17 year old academy players in a big top of the table match with the score still in the balance as well. Hopefully, we are able to get another few through to the first team soon 🤞 Totally Agree, Fight or Flight, lets see what they have got! Might get a few people off there seats (but not to go home early like they are at the moment!)
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Post by westfieldgas on Sept 26, 2022 14:34:31 GMT
Get the impression a loan to Hungerford shows the level Jones' is at.... Sadly hasn't lived up to his potential at WSM and ultimately the price tag we paid. Might be being a bit harsh? His contract is up next summer (i believe), could be the end of his time at Rovers, i feel.
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Post by eric on Sept 26, 2022 15:08:59 GMT
If all this is true and we have so many great youngsters why is it that when they leave do we not see them reappear in the EFL? It’s always Chippenham, Gloucester standard. Surely if they were that good they’d get trials elsewhere and make it as pro’s. JB and his staff are not stupid, they see them day in day out. If any stood out and were considered likely to be far better than what we have then they’d get picked. If we had players of the quality of Stewart, Yates, Browning, Taylor coming through they’d get picked. If our cast offs are that good we can expect Chipppenham, Gloucester and Kings Lynn to be in the EFL within a couple of years. It seems the only argument for playing them is when we are on a bad run and “couldn’t do much worse” comments get thrown about. Just for clarity I’m as desperate as anyone for some top quality young talent to come through the ranks in to the first team but for some reason over the past 30 years the players in our system have been second rate. I guess its all about opinions, but at the end of the day unless you push and test these players they are almost being prepared to fail. I go on facts and numbers and there is nothing to prove the crop of players we have bought in at the start of the season in a panic are any better than we have. Normally the first years and second years are stood around in Training being manikins for the so called First team so how would they know. I know for a fact that the technical ability of 3 of the lads there is right up if not better than some. I think the the passion and the pure desire to succeed at your boyhood club would totally out weigh some of the sh**e i have watched of a Saturday afternoon! And your first team will never get better if the kids aren't thrown in to try and win their place in the team. Now if they are sh**e then I will be the first to say sorry kid you are not good enough but you must give them a chance! If Jones for example was to start and given the chances that Westbrook has had and puts 2 or 3 on a plate for Collins or Loft and we win, What message does that send out to Whelan, Evans and Co.. But not trying is a real shame for the future of the Club and would also help hugely for the finances going forwards. I think we need to be Braver or at best Start a 23's Team and let Whelan Run it and lets see what we really have! Why do none of them ever bounce back after being released though? If they are that gifted why do they all seem to drop multiple divisions into part-time football? That for me is evidence enough that they were never likely to have been good enough in the first place. It’s not just Joey Barton and the current staff. We’ve not really bought any players into being regular first team starters or sold to prem or championship clubs for decades - Lines the closest I can think of. I just don’t think Rovers being in a two club city where the opposition are streets ahead of us gives us a realistic chance of getting the best youth players these days.
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Post by toggsy2 on Sept 26, 2022 15:26:56 GMT
Things are only going to get worse kids these days are not interested unless it involves a TV screen and a gamepad. I remember back in the day Mangotsfield was a regular feeder club but when was the last time we took anyone from Mangotsfield ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2022 15:27:05 GMT
I have to say my experience of watching youngsters at 16 at Southern League, Western Toolstation first team and reserve team this season, has really changed my opinion of the validity of lower league academy set ups such as ours.
I dont know the answer, but at 16 and playing competitive league men's football every Saturday seems to me a much better learning curve than what appears to happen at the same age with us. I know that we have played a couple of youngster's recently. But surely it must be better to be playing the men's game every single week.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Sept 26, 2022 15:44:09 GMT
Things are only going to get worse kids these days are not interested unless it involves a TV screen and a gamepad. I remember back in the day Mangotsfield was a regular feeder club but when was the last time we took anyone from Mangotsfield ? Sheffield United signed Miguel Freckleton recently from Mangotsfield, a youngster formerly on our books in the youth setup.
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Post by gasyouthwatch on Sept 26, 2022 15:47:01 GMT
I have to say my experience of watching youngsters at 16 at Southern League, Western Toolstation first team and reserve team this season, has really changed my opinion of the validity of lower league academy set ups such as ours. I dont know the answer, but at 16 and playing competitive league men's football every Saturday seems to me a much better learning curve than what appears to happen at the same age with us. I know that we have played a couple of youngster's recently. But surely it must be better to be playing the men's game every single week. I totally agree, some of the standard of Football in Southern Prem and Conference South where a few of our lads are playing is a great learning curve for them. Some of these teams play better football than us.. Just look at the full strength team we put out against Bath City, how did that go and we are still persevering with the same names on a Saturday expecting us to get results. If we had a competitive team that played in PL2 like our neighbours then many more would come through and also get sold but we don't. So like you say if we are not going to do it properly why bother! The main reason is education, we have a scholarship system in place to keep the boys or its full time education and back in the big wide world! Its a tough one, but i dont see why Rovers did not take over a Mangotsfield or a Hallen for example and use that as a competitive learning environment into men's football for our future players and fringe players to keep match fit.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Sept 26, 2022 15:47:18 GMT
I guess its all about opinions, but at the end of the day unless you push and test these players they are almost being prepared to fail. I go on facts and numbers and there is nothing to prove the crop of players we have bought in at the start of the season in a panic are any better than we have. Normally the first years and second years are stood around in Training being manikins for the so called First team so how would they know. I know for a fact that the technical ability of 3 of the lads there is right up if not better than some. I think the the passion and the pure desire to succeed at your boyhood club would totally out weigh some of the sh**e i have watched of a Saturday afternoon! And your first team will never get better if the kids aren't thrown in to try and win their place in the team. Now if they are sh**e then I will be the first to say sorry kid you are not good enough but you must give them a chance! If Jones for example was to start and given the chances that Westbrook has had and puts 2 or 3 on a plate for Collins or Loft and we win, What message does that send out to Whelan, Evans and Co.. But not trying is a real shame for the future of the Club and would also help hugely for the finances going forwards. I think we need to be Braver or at best Start a 23's Team and let Whelan Run it and lets see what we really have! Why do none of them ever bounce back after being released though? If they are that gifted why do they all seem to drop multiple divisions into part-time football? That for me is evidence enough that they were never likely to have been good enough in the first place. It’s not just Joey Barton and the current staff. We’ve not really bought any players into being regular first team starters or sold to prem or championship clubs for decades - Lines the closest I can think of. I just don’t think Rovers being in a two club city where the opposition are streets ahead of us gives us a realistic chance of getting the best youth players these days. It's not just City we are competing with, Southampton, Chelsea, Cardiff, Reading and others are actively scouting in the area.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Sept 26, 2022 15:49:51 GMT
I have to say my experience of watching youngsters at 16 at Southern League, Western Toolstation first team and reserve team this season, has really changed my opinion of the validity of lower league academy set ups such as ours. I dont know the answer, but at 16 and playing competitive league men's football every Saturday seems to me a much better learning curve than what appears to happen at the same age with us. I know that we have played a couple of youngster's recently. But surely it must be better to be playing the men's game every single week. Totally agree. Players can come on leaps and bounds by playing in the first team regularly surrounded by better quality players. How many games would Connor Taylor have played last season if Hughes and Alfie stayed fit? Sometimes you have to put your faith in them and give them a run of games. If they arent worth the risk why are they here
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Post by gasyouthwatch on Sept 26, 2022 15:59:59 GMT
I guess its all about opinions, but at the end of the day unless you push and test these players they are almost being prepared to fail. I go on facts and numbers and there is nothing to prove the crop of players we have bought in at the start of the season in a panic are any better than we have. Normally the first years and second years are stood around in Training being manikins for the so called First team so how would they know. I know for a fact that the technical ability of 3 of the lads there is right up if not better than some. I think the the passion and the pure desire to succeed at your boyhood club would totally out weigh some of the sh**e i have watched of a Saturday afternoon! And your first team will never get better if the kids aren't thrown in to try and win their place in the team. Now if they are sh**e then I will be the first to say sorry kid you are not good enough but you must give them a chance! If Jones for example was to start and given the chances that Westbrook has had and puts 2 or 3 on a plate for Collins or Loft and we win, What message does that send out to Whelan, Evans and Co.. But not trying is a real shame for the future of the Club and would also help hugely for the finances going forwards. I think we need to be Braver or at best Start a 23's Team and let Whelan Run it and lets see what we really have! Why do none of them ever bounce back after being released though? If they are that gifted why do they all seem to drop multiple divisions into part-time football? That for me is evidence enough that they were never likely to have been good enough in the first place. It’s not just Joey Barton and the current staff. We’ve not really bought any players into being regular first team starters or sold to prem or championship clubs for decades - Lines the closest I can think of. I just don’t think Rovers being in a two club city where the opposition are streets ahead of us gives us a realistic chance of getting the best youth players these days. I think a few have done okay, Tyrone Mings never got through a trial and Christion Doidge, We have sold 2 lads recently to Aston Villa, We ripped up a contract for Marcus Dawes who is At Bournemouth, and we trialled Josh Barlow now at Shrewsbury and didn't offer him anything as not deemed good enough and Seb Palmer-Houlden who has just been offer a 2 year pro deal at Bristol City who again was released by us! I just think we need to better as a club and offer more opportunity because no one knows what these lads are really like until seeing what they are like at 3pm on a Saturday once in a while! Some might surprise and some might make us a few quid! The ones we have given opportunities too at a young age, Scott Sinclair, Chris Lines, Tom lockyer even Alfie Kilgour and Luca Hoole are not doing too Badly, but sometimes we need to give them a chance... thats all.
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Post by toggsy2 on Sept 26, 2022 19:37:45 GMT
Things are only going to get worse kids these days are not interested unless it involves a TV screen and a gamepad. I remember back in the day Mangotsfield was a regular feeder club but when was the last time we took anyone from Mangotsfield ? Sheffield United signed Miguel Freckleton recently from Mangotsfield, a youngster formerly on our books in the youth setup. Read what I said again I said signed from Mangotsfield not signed by them from us. Do you think the general shortage of decent players for all clubs has been created by modern technology with kids not simply interested in sports anymore. Where I grew up there were always kids playing footy in large numbers on the local green, my mate still lives in the area and even he can't remember the last time he saw kids playing footy like we used to on the green like we did as kids.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Sept 26, 2022 20:40:02 GMT
Sheffield United signed Miguel Freckleton recently from Mangotsfield, a youngster formerly on our books in the youth setup. Read what I said again I said signed from Mangotsfield not signed by them from us. Do you think the general shortage of decent players for all clubs has been created by modern technology with kids not simply interested in sports anymore. Where I grew up there were always kids playing footy in large numbers on the local green, my mate still lives in the area and even he can't remember the last time he saw kids playing footy like we used to on the green like we did as kids. I understood what you wrote perfectly well, I was just pointing out that even Sheffield United have signed a youngster from them recently. Street football or having a kick about in the park is important for development (as someone like Johan Cruyff pointed out), but as for fewer kids playing now, you might he right overall, although there are still hotbeds where street football thrives, South London for example: www.football.london/crystal-palace-fc/eze-antonio-sessegnon-south-london-22242196
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2022 21:57:09 GMT
Difficult argument for me this one.
I’ve watched my youngest go through Rovers Academy from 8 years old to being released a couple of years ago.
Fantastic memories and playing at premier league training grounds that you couldn’t pay for even if money was no object.
However playing mens football at 16 now at a very good non league standard with no contract commitments, is a question that you have to ask.
Do you sit on the bench at academy and play u18 or at best u23’s. It Is a gamble I guess, and can you get mens football before your 20.
Great believer in if your good enough your old enough.
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Post by mftc on Sept 26, 2022 22:26:16 GMT
At Rovers it seems that if someone thinks your good enough, you still won't get a chance as we pay higher wages for someone like Westbrooke and it is the law they must get the first opportunity.
As long as we are safe, I would gladly see the likes of Ward, Greenslade, Jones, Egan and Lawrence have a go.
I am not sure Egan and Kilgour in a back four, would have been so bad as Whelan in a back three the other week.
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Post by kylegas on Sept 26, 2022 22:39:06 GMT
Get the impression a loan to Hungerford shows the level Jones' is at.... Sadly hasn't lived up to his potential at WSM and ultimately the price tag we paid. Might be being a bit harsh? His contract is up next summer (i believe), could be the end of his time at Rovers, i feel. What did we pay for him? I wasn’t aware we paid anything?
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Post by westfieldgas on Sept 27, 2022 8:53:38 GMT
Get the impression a loan to Hungerford shows the level Jones' is at.... Sadly hasn't lived up to his potential at WSM and ultimately the price tag we paid. Might be being a bit harsh? His contract is up next summer (i believe), could be the end of his time at Rovers, i feel. What did we pay for him? I wasn’t aware we paid anything? We definitely paid a fee, a club record fee received for WSM....
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Post by kylegas on Sept 27, 2022 21:33:05 GMT
What did we pay for him? I wasn’t aware we paid anything? We definitely paid a fee, a club record fee received for WSM.... I don’t doubt you’re right, just wondered how much is all
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