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Post by aghast on Sept 23, 2021 19:02:51 GMT
I’d rather garner back than tisdale. In fact I’d go as far to say I’d rather keep Barton than him. Really didn’t like him. I think the writing was on the wall for Tisdale when he started moaning about our lack of strikers (or lack of goalscoring strikers) after the transfer deadline had passed (where he had failed to bring any forwards in)... it sounded like he had given up already. Then Barton came in.. slagged all the players and previous managers off, gave up, got us relegated and has subsequently hugely overpromised and underdelivered. I think you're right about Garner though. He suffered because we were riding so high when he came in and where we ended up. There were a number of reasons for this (and not all were Garner's fault). His PPG / Win% should have at least kept us up - before you even factor in the fact he would have had another transfer window to address some of the issues. I wasn't that arsed about him being sacked at the time - we weren't doing well - but I was surprised.. as it seemed like we had brought him in as a long term project. I still think Tisdale needs defending, even though he obviously won't ever be back here. The way I see it, which as ever I am making up, is that Garner was just happy to get a job and agreed to the evolution philosophy being controlled from above, where he accepted the players Widdrington (at that time, a powerful voice in the club) chose for him, and attempted to slot them into some idealised version of Barcelona in L1. That clearly didn't work since you need to choose your own players if they are to play in your style, and the manager clearly needed a bit more steel and experience. So Tis was brought in to toughen it up a bit, but he wasn't prepared to accept any player Widders told him to, and Widders wasn't prepared to accept the players Tis told him he wanted. So we had a power struggle and a stalemate, and we didn't get a striker either of the head honchos could agree on, so we got nobody any good. Barton came in, saw what was happening, refused to accept having his hands tied like Ben was happy to and Tis was unhappy to, and demanded complete control with Widders on gardening leave. You know the rest.
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Post by cj on Sept 23, 2021 19:11:37 GMT
Imagine Garner's Swindon beating Rovers and then JB then gets sacked. The coach that JB publicly called out as negligent and should be struck off if he was a doctor, could end up being the one to get Barton sacked. Then imagine JB's replacement being Tisdale, who JB also slagged off. Ultimate slap in the face for JB.
bone hard when you wrote that? 🤣 Nope. Quite the opposite. I am cheesed off he is still here. And my anger builds each passing game. Even discussing a possibility of JB's removal doesn't changed how annoyed I still am.
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Sept 23, 2021 19:53:05 GMT
I think the writing was on the wall for Tisdale when he started moaning about our lack of strikers (or lack of goalscoring strikers) after the transfer deadline had passed (where he had failed to bring any forwards in)... it sounded like he had given up already. Then Barton came in.. slagged all the players and previous managers off, gave up, got us relegated and has subsequently hugely overpromised and underdelivered. I think you're right about Garner though. He suffered because we were riding so high when he came in and where we ended up. There were a number of reasons for this (and not all were Garner's fault). His PPG / Win% should have at least kept us up - before you even factor in the fact he would have had another transfer window to address some of the issues. I wasn't that arsed about him being sacked at the time - we weren't doing well - but I was surprised.. as it seemed like we had brought him in as a long term project. I still think Tisdale needs defending, even though he obviously won't ever be back here. The way I see it, which as ever I am making up, is that Garner was just happy to get a job and agreed to the evolution philosophy being controlled from above, where he accepted the players Widdrington (at that time, a powerful voice in the club) chose for him, and attempted to slot them into some idealised version of Barcelona in L1. That clearly didn't work since you need to choose your own players if they are to play in your style, and the manager clearly needed a bit more steel and experience. So Tis was brought in to toughen it up a bit, but he wasn't prepared to accept any player Widders told him to, and Widders wasn't prepared to accept the players Tis told him he wanted. So we had a power struggle and a stalemate, and we didn't get a striker either of the head honchos could agree on, so we got nobody any good. Barton came in, saw what was happening, refused to accept having his hands tied like Ben was happy to and Tis was unhappy to, and demanded complete control with Widders on gardening leave. You know the rest. Not a fan of Tisdale, but I got the impression that he didn't quite realise the extent of what he was walking into when he accepted the job. Widders also wanted to have a say in picking the team.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2021 20:36:44 GMT
I think the writing was on the wall for Tisdale when he started moaning about our lack of strikers (or lack of goalscoring strikers) after the transfer deadline had passed (where he had failed to bring any forwards in)... it sounded like he had given up already. Then Barton came in.. slagged all the players and previous managers off, gave up, got us relegated and has subsequently hugely overpromised and underdelivered. I think you're right about Garner though. He suffered because we were riding so high when he came in and where we ended up. There were a number of reasons for this (and not all were Garner's fault). His PPG / Win% should have at least kept us up - before you even factor in the fact he would have had another transfer window to address some of the issues. I wasn't that arsed about him being sacked at the time - we weren't doing well - but I was surprised.. as it seemed like we had brought him in as a long term project. I still think Tisdale needs defending, even though he obviously won't ever be back here. The way I see it, which as ever I am making up, is that Garner was just happy to get a job and agreed to the evolution philosophy being controlled from above, where he accepted the players Widdrington (at that time, a powerful voice in the club) chose for him, and attempted to slot them into some idealised version of Barcelona in L1. That clearly didn't work since you need to choose your own players if they are to play in your style, and the manager clearly needed a bit more steel and experience. So Tis was brought in to toughen it up a bit, but he wasn't prepared to accept any player Widders told him to, and Widders wasn't prepared to accept the players Tis told him he wanted. So we had a power struggle and a stalemate, and we didn't get a striker either of the head honchos could agree on, so we got nobody any good. Barton came in, saw what was happening, refused to accept having his hands tied like Ben was happy to and Tis was unhappy to, and demanded complete control with Widders on gardening leave. You know the rest. I think you have nailed it here with the omission that Widders felt threatened by Tisdale's desire to bring in his own long time DOF Steve Perryman and undermined him at every opportunity. Widders was only too keen to put Tisdale down after he had left to further save his own skin. As you say, Barton was having none of Widders from day one as the football world already knew the score.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Sept 23, 2021 21:31:19 GMT
I still think Tisdale needs defending, even though he obviously won't ever be back here. The way I see it, which as ever I am making up, is that Garner was just happy to get a job and agreed to the evolution philosophy being controlled from above, where he accepted the players Widdrington (at that time, a powerful voice in the club) chose for him, and attempted to slot them into some idealised version of Barcelona in L1. That clearly didn't work since you need to choose your own players if they are to play in your style, and the manager clearly needed a bit more steel and experience. So Tis was brought in to toughen it up a bit, but he wasn't prepared to accept any player Widders told him to, and Widders wasn't prepared to accept the players Tis told him he wanted. So we had a power struggle and a stalemate, and we didn't get a striker either of the head honchos could agree on, so we got nobody any good. Barton came in, saw what was happening, refused to accept having his hands tied like Ben was happy to and Tis was unhappy to, and demanded complete control with Widders on gardening leave. You know the rest. I think you have nailed it here with the omission that Widders felt threatened by Tisdale's desire to bring in his own long time DOF Steve Perryman and undermined him at every opportunity. Widders was only too keen to put Tisdale down after he had left to further save his own skin. As you say, Barton was having none of Widders from day one as the football world already knew the score. he's going to be back when Barton gets the sack isn't he? God help us our board are a wreck.
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Post by rovers5charlton5 on Sept 24, 2021 6:43:52 GMT
Okay, my point is that most of those managers shouldn't hand been sacked, just given more support or financial backing, or both. There far too much knee jerk reactions in football. How are clubs supposed to build anything if they sack the leader before they've had a chance to do their job. Understood but sometimes time doesn't make a difference. Barton has had what - about 30 games now? And has a relegation on his CV, the worst win ratio in our history (or very close) and has us pretty much bottom of the football league as it stands. Add to that all the other off the field issues and his continual run-ins with the law, and we just need to accept defeat and get rid. Get rid now and cost us millions, or wait until the court cases are done and do it for free?
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Post by Gassy on Sept 24, 2021 7:04:49 GMT
Understood but sometimes time doesn't make a difference. Barton has had what - about 30 games now? And has a relegation on his CV, the worst win ratio in our history (or very close) and has us pretty much bottom of the football league as it stands. Add to that all the other off the field issues and his continual run-ins with the law, and we just need to accept defeat and get rid. Get rid now and cost us millions, or wait until the court cases are done and do it for free? Millions?
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Sept 24, 2021 7:06:14 GMT
Get rid now and cost us millions, or wait until the court cases are done and do it for free? Millions? Billions mate.
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Post by gasgasgasgas on Sept 24, 2021 7:07:21 GMT
Understood but sometimes time doesn't make a difference. Barton has had what - about 30 games now? And has a relegation on his CV, the worst win ratio in our history (or very close) and has us pretty much bottom of the football league as it stands. Add to that all the other off the field issues and his continual run-ins with the law, and we just need to accept defeat and get rid. Get rid now and cost us millions, or wait until the court cases are done and do it for free? Millions? My guess he’s on £3k a week(ish). We could put him on Gardening Leave and then sack for Gross Misconduct if found guilty at either trial. That’s £36k. @average £20 a ticket + pint etc that pays for itself if you get an extra 200 odd on the gate for each home game between now and Xmas. Really we’re gonna pay that £36k to “our Joey” anyway Gardening Leave or in post. The real cost is bringing in a new manager. I looked at conviction rates for assault they are about 75%. So with two trials there’s a 92.5% chance he will go down for one of them. So we are highly likely to need a new manager come Jan anyway - many say about managers being given enough time - why not get the next one earlier? paying a new manager £36k @£3k a week sounds like good business sense. He would have longer to assess the squad, sort out recruits for Jan, implement a system. Plus would not be hugely distracted by court cases going on. Our league status may depend on it. Alternatively if “our Joey” gets off we are 100% guaranteed promotion. From a purely business sense it’s a no-brainer I think.
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Post by meldrew on Sept 24, 2021 8:14:07 GMT
Anyone know when Barton's court cases are due?
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Sept 24, 2021 8:54:16 GMT
Anyone know when Barton's court cases are due? December 16th, two days before our 6-pointer with Scunthorpe.
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Post by gasgasgasgas on Sept 24, 2021 8:57:55 GMT
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Post by gasgasgasgas on Sept 24, 2021 8:59:10 GMT
And 16th December with his Mrs
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Sept 24, 2021 9:17:22 GMT
The day before we're away to FGR.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Sept 24, 2021 9:26:18 GMT
Can’t we just agree not to have any of the three back when Joey inevitably goes? If I could erase the last 21 footballing months I certainly would. Where's Patrick Duffy in the shower when you need it? baggins has it book marked.
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Post by gasgasgasgas on Sept 24, 2021 9:29:24 GMT
The day before we're away to FGR. Exactly. I can see no sense financial or otherwise dragging this out. A few grand extra spent on getting a new manager to be able to prepare for these matches properly, before the inevitable - is money well spent. As per my earlier post I reckon there’s more than the extra 200 we’d need on the gate to cover the cost who stay away because of Barton anyway. I can’t see any benefit in delaying making a change.
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Post by Gasshole on Sept 24, 2021 10:09:54 GMT
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Post by seanclevedongas on Sept 24, 2021 11:12:44 GMT
Where's Patrick Duffy in the shower when you need it? baggins has it book marked.
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Post by gashead79 on May 11, 2022 19:40:20 GMT
I have many of these types of thread in my mind, because this place really annoyed me at a time when backs should have been against the wall.
Next season is going to be difficult. I know some of you lot are predicting this and that and apparently the PO games haven't impressed. Well I think it's going to be a big step up and some of our players and tactics will be found out by better squads.
Barton is likely to speak in his strange ways when we are up against it. With hindsight, the bloke is a bit of a genius. Certainly cleverer than 99% of the posters on this thread anyway. His method of using metaphors, biblical references and ancient quotes certainly irked people when we were losing games, but now looking back, he was spot on and that was just his way of explaining the situation.
Do we think the forum will have more patience next time we have a bad spell or a player who doesn't set the world alight after 3 games?(Coutts)
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on May 11, 2022 19:50:00 GMT
I have many of these types of thread in my mind, because this place really annoyed me at a time when backs should have been against the wall. Next season is going to be difficult. I know some of you lot are predicting this and that and apparently the PO games haven't impressed. Well I think it's going to be a big step up and some of our players and tactics will be found out by better squads. Barton is likely to speak in his strange ways when we are up against it. With hindsight, the bloke is a bit of a genius. Certainly cleverer than 99% of the posters on this thread anyway. His method of using metaphors, biblical references and ancient quotes certainly irked people when we were losing games, but now looking back, he was spot on and that was just his way of explaining the situation. Do we think the forum will have more patience next time we have a bad spell or a player who doesn't set the world alight after 3 games?(Coutts) It’s a football forum , absolutely no chance there won’t be multiple meltdowns next season. The same as every other footy forum I expect.
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