Former USSR

Personally, I would just refute whatever you can line by line with the relevant context etc,wouldn't get in a personal tit for tat,the majority will be able to make up their own minds and to be honest those that believe what Pirate posts will already have a predisposition that way which in my experience cannot be changed

IMO best ignore trolls.

Interesting piece by John Simpson off the BBC website;

"Viewed from Finland, there are some striking similarities between the attack on Ukraine and the invasion of Finland in 1939 - the Winter War, as it's known.
Joseph Stalin, full of self-confidence, sent his army into Finland only to find that its resistance was far greater than his generals had assured him. The Finns staged a largely guerrilla war against an army which was huge, but whose morale had been seriously damaged by the treason trials of a year or so earlier, in which the majority of the most senior figures were purged and executed.
The Winter War dragged on for months before negotiations finally began and an agreement was reached. Russia took some territory from Finland, but the Finns kept their independence - and have done so ever since.
The invasion of Ukraine has similarly been mismanaged. The logistical side was botched from the start, with too little fuel, food and water supplied to the troops - many of whom had been assured they were only carrying out an exercise.
Western analysts say even maps were in short supply, with tank drivers often having to stop to get directions. This was not by any means a Blitzkrieg, and the prerequisite for any modern war - the destruction of the enemy's communications - simply never happened.
None of this means that President Vladimir Putin won't win in the end.
He has already assured France's President Macron that he will go on until he takes the whole of Ukraine. The danger is that if he cannot do it with his conventional forces, the temptation will be strong to use his tactical nuclear weapons to force Ukraine to surrender.
Russian nuclear theory seems to regard this as an acceptable risk; Western experts are much more worried by the possibilities. There can be no certainties if that threshold is crossed.
Russia claims to have invaded Ukraine because it wanted to save the Ukrainian people from neo-fascism. What President Putin really seems to want to ensure - apart from avenging what he sees as Ukraine's treachery in breaking away from Russia - is that there is no question of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky joining Nato.
In fact, that genuinely doesn't seem to have been a possibility within the foreseeable future.
But there is a real irony in the fact that the war in Ukraine now seems to be giving Finland - and perhaps Sweden - real cause for considering whether they should join the Western military alliance."

Sweden wrestling with Nato membership and Moldova probably wondering if they will be on the hitlist too bearing in mind they already have Russian forces present and a separatist region.

I'm not going to lower myself to name calling that the likes of Oldie, Yatton, Stuart, Officer Barbrady etc have resorted to because I understand where it stems from - cognitive dissonance. Not easy for some when ideas and beliefs are challenged with information that contradicts the narrative.

I'll repeat what I said previously too which has largely fallen on deaf ears - "I'm no fan or apologist for the tyrant Putin and think THE INVASION IS WRONG." Anyone guilty of crimes should be held to account. It's the ordinary people of Ukraine I feel sorry for and the suffering and loss of life is tragic. I also feel sorry for the people of Russia too for that matter, because they don't want war either.

I still refuse to ignore information and background to the conflict that has brought us to this point.

-The years of United States meddling in the country with "$5 billion invested" (Nuland quote)

- The fueling of anti-government sentiment through mechanisms like the neocon National Endowment for Democracy, who were training activists, supporting 'journalists' and funding business groups. (“doing in public what the CIA used to do in private”)

- Wikileaks revealing years of NATO Ukraine propaganda effort with $8.5m worth of NATO pamphlets/postcards/TV debates/Monthly TV Programs/Regional Conferences/NATO HQ visits for journalists/NGO reps/NATO centers at Universities/Polling

- the rejected IMF economic reforms that Nuland said were "essential" (i.e., lowering wages, reforming and reducing health and education sectors and cutting natural gas subsidies to Ukrainian citizens that made energy affordable to the general public).

- The 2014 coup/violence and sniper killings of protesters/police to overthrow the democratically elected government and seize power, likely carried out by an alliance of far right organizations...specifically the Right Sector, Azov, Svoboda, and oligarchic parties, such as Fatherland.
*(information from a leaked phone call between Catherine Ashton [High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy] and Urmas Paet [Estonian Minister for Foreign Affairs] revealed there was evidence of the presence of snipers in Ukraine. During the call, the leaders talked about groups of provocateurs being in the country at the time of the protests who shot both protesters and the police. These groups are believed to have been part of the opposition (allegedly Maidan leaders) - the new coalition government announced that they would not conduct any investigation into the matter.)

- As many as THIRTY militias reportedly operating in the country, including far-right, white supremacist and neo-nazi elements within the likes of Right Sektor, Azov, Aidar, Donbass, Dnepr-1 and Dnepr-2 with many of them in part funded by Igor Kolomoisky.

- The neo-nazi Azov battalion and others violating international humanitarian law by embbedding their weapons and forces in hospitals, using civilian buildings, and displacing residents after looting civilian properties, and raping and torturing detainees in the Donbas region.

- The subsequent US funding of weapons and CIA training of Ukrainian special forces/intelligence in the US since at least 2015, with Ground Branch paramilitaries also travelling to the front in eastern Ukraine 'to advise' their counterparts. The United States is training an insurgency,” said a former CIA official, adding that the program has taught the Ukrainians "how to kill Russians.”

- The deaths of something like 13,000-14,000 people (including 500 or so children) killed in the Donbas region since 2014.

Lots of US spellings there, copy and pasted? 

I don't think we are ignoring your points, just that they aren't coming across as reasons but excuses and although you've said it's wrong, you haven't really condemned Russia but put the blame on the West in stoking up issues. That's the same sort of reasoning other tin pot dictators use to excuse their bombing campaigns throughout history and even today.

We aren't going to agree on much so probably best to leave it. My last thought for you though is who is the real fascist here.

Have a good day, Wes.

Nicely reasoned post.

They like to bury their heads in the sand.

Oldie is particularly disappointing, last week he said liberalism was the best system he'd heard of in his 70 years...

Conveniently forgetting the violence needed for that system to exist. As if 2 catastrophic world wars and this disgusting war in Ukraine isn't enough to put them off of it.

The 'Snipers Massacre on the Maidan in Ukraine' from the School of Political Studies at the University of Ottawa was presented at the Annual Meeting of American Political Science Association 2015.

The paper was the first academic study of this crucial case and the investigation concluded that the massacre was an operation, which was rationally planned and carried out, with a goal of the overthrow of the government and seizure of power. It found various evidence of the involvement of an alliance of those far right organizations.

Concealed shooters and spotters were located in at least 20 Maidan-controlled buildings or areas. The various evidence that the protesters were killed from these locations include some 70 testimonies, primarily by Maidan protesters, several videos of “snipers” targeting protesters from these buildings, comparisons of positions of the specific protesters at the time of their killing and their entry wounds, and bullet impact signs. The study uncovered various videos and photos of armed Maidan “snipers” and spotters in many of these buildings.

orientalreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Snipers_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine_APSA_Conference.pdf

Just to add I took at the link you provided to Oriental Review.Org.
They are a laugh a minute.
Articles such as "Bill Gates, Vaccinations, Microchips and Patent 060606" and
"The US trying to turn Zambia into the African Sri Lanka"

A bunch of bloggers desperate to get their name in the press.

It's almost as funny as the link you provided to Blackstone blog, turns out to be another bunch of 25 people based in North Carolina.

Late edit

From the foresaid OrientalReview.org

This

Read like Pravda?
It should do, its written by a political writer based in Moscow, Andrew Korybko. 

orientalreview.org/author/ak/

Apparently these are the preconditions for peace:

cease military action

change its constitution to enshrine neutrality

acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory and,

recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent territories.

uk.news.yahoo.com/russia-says-military-action-will-stop-immediately-if-ukraine-agrees-to-four-conditions-121826715.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=upday