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Post by aghast on Apr 12, 2022 21:56:53 GMT
If he's using chemical weapons then sorry, but NATO needs to flatten Russia. Send everything in, launch everything and destroy it. We don't need to flatten Russia just push them back over the Ukrainian border, I can't honestly see it would take that much effort as the Russian military is so tin pot. Well maybe until Putin declares NATO involvement, led by the US and no doubt helped by the UK, is an act of war and we have threats of World War 3.
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 13, 2022 14:58:39 GMT
From Sky News:
"International experts have found evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity by Russia in Ukraine, an initial report from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation and Europe (OSCE) has said.
The report cited failures to take necessary precautions, act proportionately or spare sites such as schools and hospitals.
It also determined the 9 March attack on a maternity hospital in Mariupol was carried out by Russia and those responsible had committed a war crime.
Russia has denied it was behind the attack and blamed it on Ukraine.
The OSCE said a bomb attack on Mariupol's drama theatre, in which Ukrainian officials say as many as 300 people may have been killed, was also a war crime.
"The Mission is not able to conclude whether the Russian attack on Ukraine per se may qualify as a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population," the report said.
"It however holds that some patterns of violent acts violating IHRL [international human rights law], which have been repeatedly documented in the course of the conflict, such as targeted killing, enforced disappearance or abductions of civilians ... are likely to meet this qualification.
"Any single violent act of this type, committed as part of such an attack and with the knowledge of it, would then constitute a crime against humanity."
It said it had found some evidence of "violations" by Ukraine, such as in its treatment of prisoners of war, but that Russia's violations were "far larger in nature and scale"."
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Post by trevorgas on Apr 13, 2022 16:45:32 GMT
From Sky News: "International experts have found evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity by Russia in Ukraine, an initial report from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation and Europe (OSCE) has said. The report cited failures to take necessary precautions, act proportionately or spare sites such as schools and hospitals. It also determined the 9 March attack on a maternity hospital in Mariupol was carried out by Russia and those responsible had committed a war crime. Russia has denied it was behind the attack and blamed it on Ukraine. The OSCE said a bomb attack on Mariupol's drama theatre, in which Ukrainian officials say as many as 300 people may have been killed, was also a war crime. "The Mission is not able to conclude whether the Russian attack on Ukraine per se may qualify as a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population," the report said. "It however holds that some patterns of violent acts violating IHRL [international human rights law], which have been repeatedly documented in the course of the conflict, such as targeted killing, enforced disappearance or abductions of civilians ... are likely to meet this qualification. "Any single violent act of this type, committed as part of such an attack and with the knowledge of it, would then constitute a crime against humanity." It said it had found some evidence of "violations" by Ukraine, such as in its treatment of prisoners of war, but that Russia's violations were "far larger in nature and scale"." Pretty damning and as usual met by denials from Russia despite this being a clear pattern ala Syria,what's so frustrating and disgusting is that they know they can get away with this and worse with impunity,this is like watching a rerun of the 1930s in Europe.
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Post by wrongsideoftheriver on Apr 13, 2022 19:59:44 GMT
French presidential candidate Marine Le Pen says she will propose closer relations between Nato and Russia if she wins power.
At a news conference, the far-right politician called for a “strategic rapprochement” between the two once the war in Ukraine was over.
She added that she would pull France out of Nato’s military command structure, if she proved victorious.
But she said she would continue to respect a key Nato pact under which an attack on one member of the military alliance is seen as an attack on all 30 members.
Russia has opposed any expansion by Nato towards its borders - including any effort by its neighbour Ukraine to join the military alliance. Nato has sent weapons to the Ukrainian army during the conflict.
Le Pen will battle Emmanuel Macron for the presidency in a run-off election later this month.
Some have accused her of being too close to Russia.
She has publicly condemned the invasion of Ukraine, but visited President Putin before the previous French election in 2017. Her party has also used Russian loans.
I really hope the French see sense and don’t lend a single vote to her. Last thing we need right now is a divided Europe bad enough with that Orban!
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Post by aghast on Apr 13, 2022 20:08:11 GMT
I don't want to buck the narrative, but there is footage verified by the BBC of Ukrainian soldiers shooting wounded and incapacitated Russian troops dead with no attempt to tend to them.
It's a nasty business, war, and it's nasty on all sides. As ever.
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 13, 2022 20:23:42 GMT
Significant development if confirmed.
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 13, 2022 22:33:59 GMT
I don't want to buck the narrative, but there is footage verified by the BBC of Ukrainian soldiers shooting wounded and incapacitated Russian troops dead with no attempt to tend to them. It's a nasty business, war, and it's nasty on all sides. As ever. Ukraine needs to be seen as upholding the law and be held to a higher standard to maintain support. Anything to the contrary needs to be fully investigated.
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Apr 14, 2022 18:48:38 GMT
I’m not pro Russia in this conflict by any stretch, but the claim that Ukraine’s armed forces are based around various Neo-Nazi militias is starting to look pretty accurate. The BBC quoting Azov Battalion spokespersons on morning TV was abit strange.
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Post by oldie on Apr 14, 2022 19:01:02 GMT
I’m not pro Russia in this conflict by any stretch, but the claim that Ukraine’s armed forces are based around various Neo-Nazi militias is starting to look pretty accurate. The BBC quoting Azov Battalion spokespersons on morning TV was abit strange. So, regardless, who invaded whom? Who killed civilian populations? Just asking because as far as I know the Azov group have not invaded Russia and killed women and children. You may have evidence to the contrary...declare it
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Post by fintanstack on Apr 15, 2022 4:33:46 GMT
I’m not pro Russia in this conflict by any stretch, but the claim that Ukraine’s armed forces are based around various Neo-Nazi militias is starting to look pretty accurate. The BBC quoting Azov Battalion spokespersons on morning TV was abit strange. The problem you have, as I see it, is which came first?: Were Neo-Nazis a problem that needed an invasion to sort or have Ukrainian citizens of all political backgrounds had to unite to repel a foreign aggressor? A Ukrainian Nazi fighting for Ukrainian independence against an invading force does not prove Russian propaganda. If Russia invaded the UK would you refuse to fight for our country if it meant standing shoulder to shoulder with the BNP? The irony is that Russia have strengthend Nato with more countries set to join and they have made heroes of Nazi groups in Ukraine.
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Post by baggins on Apr 15, 2022 8:16:40 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 15, 2022 8:22:37 GMT
I’m not pro Russia in this conflict by any stretch, but the claim that Ukraine’s armed forces are based around various Neo-Nazi militias is starting to look pretty accurate. The BBC quoting Azov Battalion spokespersons on morning TV was abit strange. The problem you have, as I see it, is which came first?: Were Neo-Nazis a problem that needed an invasion to sort or have Ukrainian citizens of all political backgrounds had to unite to repel a foreign aggressor? A Ukrainian Nazi fighting for Ukrainian independence against an invading force does not prove Russian propaganda. If Russia invaded the UK would you refuse to fight for our country if it meant standing shoulder to shoulder with the BNP? The irony is that Russia have strengthend Nato with more countries set to join and they have made heroes of Nazi groups in Ukraine. That's the point I was making to Pirate a while back, it was the 2014 invasion of Crimea and the backing of separatists in the Donbas coupled with weak central government that make those like the Azov regiment a necessity. A bit like the meme doing the rounds about Putin saying to Sweden and Finland not to join Nato, I'll protect you. To which the response us "Protect us from what?" "From me!"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2022 9:48:55 GMT
I’m not pro Russia in this conflict by any stretch, but the claim that Ukraine’s armed forces are based around various Neo-Nazi militias is starting to look pretty accurate. The BBC quoting Azov Battalion spokespersons on morning TV was abit strange. Liberals are quite comfortable with Nazism/fascism, as seen clearly in past history. fascism is just seen as the end stages of capitalism. Apparently there has been more main stream media coverage of this conflict in the last ~2 months, than there was of the whole of the Iraq war, which was ~9 years. It's astonishing. You won't see anything about ongoing Yemeni, Ethiopian, Syrian wars and massacres of Palestinians etc.
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Post by baggins on Apr 18, 2022 12:15:53 GMT
How would you like to be the Chap who has tell Putin that not only are his tanks being taken out left right and centre but he's just lost a Battleship?
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 18, 2022 12:24:00 GMT
How would you like to be the Chap who has tell Putin that not only are his tanks being taken out left right and centre but he's just lost a Battleship? Just don't tell him, just like the actual advisers are doing. 👀
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Post by baggins on Apr 20, 2022 6:23:28 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 22, 2022 9:49:01 GMT
Looks like the narrative is changing again. What ever happened to those bio labs?
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 25, 2022 22:06:01 GMT
Update from the Defence Secretary today, the MOD estimates Russia has lost 15,000 personnel and 2,000 armoured vehicles. "With this invasion of Ukraine, all of Europe can now see the true face of President Putin and his inner circle. His intention is only to destroy, to crush, to rub out the free peoples of Ukraine. He does not want to preserve. He must not be allowed to prevail. Ukrainians are fighting for their very lives and they are fighting for our freedoms. The President of Ukraine himself said as much: if Russia stops fighting, there will be peace. If Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no more Ukraine." www.gov.uk/government/speeches/defence-secretary-statement-to-the-house-of-commons-on-ukraine-25-april-2022
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Post by aghast on Apr 27, 2022 21:49:50 GMT
Update from the Defence Secretary today, the MOD estimates Russia has lost 15,000 personnel and 2,000 armoured vehicles. "With this invasion of Ukraine, all of Europe can now see the true face of President Putin and his inner circle. His intention is only to destroy, to crush, to rub out the free peoples of Ukraine. He does not want to preserve. He must not be allowed to prevail. Ukrainians are fighting for their very lives and they are fighting for our freedoms. The President of Ukraine himself said as much: if Russia stops fighting, there will be peace. If Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no more Ukraine." www.gov.uk/government/speeches/defence-secretary-statement-to-the-house-of-commons-on-ukraine-25-april-2022I know this is a simple question with a complex answer, but how and why have Ukrainian forces had such success? I know the Russian military is becoming a bit run down and badly managed, but it still bristles with manpower and arms. Does the contribution from the West make a big difference? Like the Javelin anti-tank thingy?
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 27, 2022 22:15:16 GMT
Update from the Defence Secretary today, the MOD estimates Russia has lost 15,000 personnel and 2,000 armoured vehicles. "With this invasion of Ukraine, all of Europe can now see the true face of President Putin and his inner circle. His intention is only to destroy, to crush, to rub out the free peoples of Ukraine. He does not want to preserve. He must not be allowed to prevail. Ukrainians are fighting for their very lives and they are fighting for our freedoms. The President of Ukraine himself said as much: if Russia stops fighting, there will be peace. If Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no more Ukraine." www.gov.uk/government/speeches/defence-secretary-statement-to-the-house-of-commons-on-ukraine-25-april-2022I know this is a simple question with a complex answer, but how and why have Ukrainian forces had such success? I know the Russian military is becoming a bit run down and badly managed, but it still bristles with manpower and arms. Does the contribution from the West make a big difference? Like the Javelin anti-tank thingy? Tactically Russia spread themselves far too thin in initial invasion. Logistics were calamitous so most ran out of fuel half way to Kiev and just got picked off. The troops were unprepared and badly trained kids. Their equipment is shockingly badly maintained. Their enemy is organised and highly motivated and has been getting intelligence from the US and pummelling them with anti tank weapons, TB2 drone strikes and using night vision equipment they didn't have to hunt them in the dark. Game changed a bit now though for both sides so we shall see.
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