stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on May 11, 2023 17:39:35 GMT
UK upping the ante a bit, supplying cruise missiles to Ukraine.
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Post by gashead79 on May 12, 2023 5:55:09 GMT
UK upping the ante a bit, supplying cruise missiles to Ukraine. Upping the ante? There will be all sorts of chess moves going on here whilst Russia, the US, China and other Western nations use the Ukraine as a testing site for weapons and tactics. Our publicity wrt supplying weapons against Russia is odd. Literally asking for a retaliation. Must be fantastic for the manufacturers and sales teams though. 💰 💰 Once the dust has settled, plenty of people will be moaning that we shouldn't have been involved in somebody else's conflict, again. |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 12, 2023 6:32:13 GMT
UK upping the ante a bit, supplying cruise missiles to Ukraine. Upping the ante? There will be all sorts of chess moves going on here whilst Russia, the US, China and other Western nations use the Ukraine as a testing site for weapons and tactics. Our publicity wrt supplying weapons against Russia is odd. Literally asking for a retaliation. Must be fantastic for the manufacturers and sales teams though. 💰 💰 Once the dust has settled, plenty of people will be moaning that we shouldn't have been involved in somebody else's conflict, again. Not sure Russia has the capability to retaliate, at least in any meaningful way short of declaring war. This has three targets, firstly the practical one in giving Ukraine something genuinely useful, secondly it sets a precedent for our allies, and thirdly it reminds The Kremlin we aren't about to stop in our support. |
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Post by trevorgas on May 12, 2023 6:37:51 GMT
Upping the ante? There will be all sorts of chess moves going on here whilst Russia, the US, China and other Western nations use the Ukraine as a testing site for weapons and tactics. Our publicity wrt supplying weapons against Russia is odd. Literally asking for a retaliation. Must be fantastic for the manufacturers and sales teams though. 💰 💰 Once the dust has settled, plenty of people will be moaning that we shouldn't have been involved in somebody else's conflict, again. Not sure Russia has the capability to retaliate, at least in any meaningful way short of declaring war. This has three targets, firstly the practical one in giving Ukraine something genuinely useful, secondly it sets a precedent for our allies, and thirdly it reminds The Kremlin we aren't about to stop in our support. From a military perspective it's what Ukraine needs prior to its Counter Offensive,hit command and control sites in the early hours causing maximum confusion delaying Russian response,if Russian morale is as fragile as reported then a void in their hierarchy will cause a further collapse . |
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Post by gashead79 on May 12, 2023 6:47:52 GMT
Upping the ante? There will be all sorts of chess moves going on here whilst Russia, the US, China and other Western nations use the Ukraine as a testing site for weapons and tactics. Our publicity wrt supplying weapons against Russia is odd. Literally asking for a retaliation. Must be fantastic for the manufacturers and sales teams though. 💰 💰 Once the dust has settled, plenty of people will be moaning that we shouldn't have been involved in somebody else's conflict, again. Not sure Russia has the capability to retaliate, at least in any meaningful way short of declaring war. This has three targets, firstly the practical one in giving Ukraine something genuinely useful, secondly it sets a precedent for our allies, and thirdly it reminds The Kremlin we aren't about to stop in our support. You underestimate Russia I see. That's naive. This is the nation that is capable of poisoning select individuals in sleepy UK towns and cities at one level. Whilst is buddies up with China et al. Genuinely useful? Ukraine has been doing just fine according to the feeds us mortals receive. Quite why you need to give a kid a baseball bat in a fist fight is up to others to explain. Our allies don't need a precedent. We are supposed to be in a treaty, so there are written agreements surrounding responsibilities in conflict. The Kremlin won't care either, the end goal will be clear from Russia and Ukraine, so unless those 2 announce peace talks, this sorry saga will continue until the arms manufacturers find another playground to make cash in. Us giving weapons to Ukraine doesn't really have anything to do with Ukraine. Its just our way of staying in bed with the USA and the long running race between East and West. What this does do, is turn the media's head and pointing fingers in our direction. It makes it ok for someone to support an enemy against us in future. We can have no complaints when another Salisbury or UK gets buzzed by Russia in future. We also can't complain when gas runs short or supplies get choked. It's an odd public move imo. |
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Post by gashead79 on May 12, 2023 6:49:45 GMT
Not sure Russia has the capability to retaliate, at least in any meaningful way short of declaring war. This has three targets, firstly the practical one in giving Ukraine something genuinely useful, secondly it sets a precedent for our allies, and thirdly it reminds The Kremlin we aren't about to stop in our support. From a military perspective it's what Ukraine needs prior to its Counter Offensive,hit command and control sites in the early hours causing maximum confusion delaying Russian response,if Russian morale is as fragile as reported then a void in their hierarchy will cause a further collapse . A military game perhaps. For real, you move your interests out of range of the enemy's capabilities. It is rocket science, literally. And basic. |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on May 12, 2023 7:24:37 GMT
Not sure Russia has the capability to retaliate, at least in any meaningful way short of declaring war. This has three targets, firstly the practical one in giving Ukraine something genuinely useful, secondly it sets a precedent for our allies, and thirdly it reminds The Kremlin we aren't about to stop in our support. You underestimate Russia I see. That's naive. This is the nation that is capable of poisoning select individuals in sleepy UK towns and cities at one level. Whilst is buddies up with China et al. Genuinely useful? Ukraine has been doing just fine according to the feeds us mortals receive. Quite why you need to give a kid a baseball bat in a fist fight is up to others to explain. Our allies don't need a precedent. We are supposed to be in a treaty, so there are written agreements surrounding responsibilities in conflict. The Kremlin won't care either, the end goal will be clear from Russia and Ukraine, so unless those 2 announce peace talks, this sorry saga will continue until the arms manufacturers find another playground to make cash in. Us giving weapons to Ukraine doesn't really have anything to do with Ukraine. Its just our way of staying in bed with the USA and the long running race between East and West. What this does do, is turn the media's head and pointing fingers in our direction. It makes it ok for someone to support an enemy against us in future. We can have no complaints when another Salisbury or UK gets buzzed by Russia in future. We also can't complain when gas runs short or supplies get choked. It's an odd public move imo. I've never underestimated Russia or Putin, no naivety on my part. Disagree with the rest too, the Salisbury poisonings happened before this, as did using gas supplies as leverage. What peace talks? Not sure either side can come to a compromise, gone too far for that I fear. Certainly 1938 sets an interesting benchmark. |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 12, 2023 7:25:37 GMT
From a military perspective it's what Ukraine needs prior to its Counter Offensive,hit command and control sites in the early hours causing maximum confusion delaying Russian response,if Russian morale is as fragile as reported then a void in their hierarchy will cause a further collapse . A military game perhaps. For real, you move your interests out of range of the enemy's capabilities. It is rocket science, literally. And basic. That's the plan, move out of Ukraine and it stops. 👍 |
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Post by gashead79 on May 12, 2023 7:49:52 GMT
A military game perhaps. For real, you move your interests out of range of the enemy's capabilities. It is rocket science, literally. And basic. That's the plan, move out of Ukraine and it stops. 👍 Lol, range doesn't just need to be linear distance. Anyway those systems will be effective to hundred km or so. Hardly far. Not easy to conceal either, so when they move around, the C2 moves aswell. How much did we spend on bombing the sh** out of Tora Bora? And for what lol, they just came out and waved! Made some 💰 though 😉 This whole thing is a script and the sad thing is that the West think they are writing it. The only thing we are writing is cheques. |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 12, 2023 8:03:16 GMT
That's the plan, move out of Ukraine and it stops. 👍 Lol, range doesn't just need to be linear distance. Anyway those systems will be effective to hundred km or so. Hardly far. Not easy to conceal either, so when they move around, the C2 moves aswell. How much did we spend on bombing the sh** out of Tora Bora? And for what lol, they just came out and waved! Made some 💰 though 😉 This whole thing is a script and the sad thing is that the West think they are writing it. The only thing we are writing is cheques. Tora Bora ended up in hand to hand fighting. These missiles are air launched, range is more than Ukraine have at the moment. So what's your solution? What could Putin accept and Ukraine willing to trade that would provide for a genuine, lasting peace? |
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Post by gashead79 on May 12, 2023 8:55:02 GMT
Lol, range doesn't just need to be linear distance. Anyway those systems will be effective to hundred km or so. Hardly far. Not easy to conceal either, so when they move around, the C2 moves aswell. How much did we spend on bombing the sh** out of Tora Bora? And for what lol, they just came out and waved! Made some 💰 though 😉 This whole thing is a script and the sad thing is that the West think they are writing it. The only thing we are writing is cheques. Tora Bora ended up in hand to hand fighting. These missiles are air launched, range is more than Ukraine have at the moment. So what's your solution? What could Putin accept and Ukraine willing to trade that would provide for a genuine, lasting peace? I don't have a solution. Just having a natter on here. I know a little bit about some of the content in the thread so just joining in really. I also think that conflict is very profitable for some people, so usually focus on that rather than the noise generated by celebrities and our untrustworthy media machines. Tora Bora..yes I know about that, for example. Range for Ukraine..well there are counters to Ukraine getting range weapons. So they don't really add anything that cannot be easily countered, it just increases the noise and expenditure. A man on the ground can do just as good a job as one of those rockets, they are just scarier to look at and forces the hand of the other guy. It will also help the russian media machine to strengthen its message against us and Ukraine. |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 12, 2023 9:59:30 GMT
Tora Bora ended up in hand to hand fighting. These missiles are air launched, range is more than Ukraine have at the moment. So what's your solution? What could Putin accept and Ukraine willing to trade that would provide for a genuine, lasting peace? I don't have a solution. Just having a natter on here. I know a little bit about some of the content in the thread so just joining in really. I also think that conflict is very profitable for some people, so usually focus on that rather than the noise generated by celebrities and our untrustworthy media machines. Tora Bora..yes I know about that, for example. Range for Ukraine..well there are counters to Ukraine getting range weapons. So they don't really add anything that cannot be easily countered, it just increases the noise and expenditure. A man on the ground can do just as good a job as one of those rockets, they are just scarier to look at and forces the hand of the other guy. It will also help the russian media machine to strengthen its message against us and Ukraine. IMO the compromise solution was lost the moment Russian forces attacked Kyiv, prior to that it was fairly localised in the Donbas area and Crimea a fait d'accompli. However, everything changed last year and the gloves came off. Added to that the bitterness now entrenched with accusations, much of which is sadly well founded, of war crimes. As of now, this regrettably has to end with Putin (not Russia, per se) being seen to lose otherwise he'll merely regroup and come again harder in a few years. Sadly Putin is so far immersed in this that it may take a coup to bring this to a conclusion, however that may well cause further repercussions including inside Russia itself. There are no good options. |
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Post by gashead79 on May 12, 2023 10:50:36 GMT
I don't have a solution. Just having a natter on here. I know a little bit about some of the content in the thread so just joining in really. I also think that conflict is very profitable for some people, so usually focus on that rather than the noise generated by celebrities and our untrustworthy media machines. Tora Bora..yes I know about that, for example. Range for Ukraine..well there are counters to Ukraine getting range weapons. So they don't really add anything that cannot be easily countered, it just increases the noise and expenditure. A man on the ground can do just as good a job as one of those rockets, they are just scarier to look at and forces the hand of the other guy. It will also help the russian media machine to strengthen its message against us and Ukraine. IMO the compromise solution was lost the moment Russian forces attacked Kyiv, prior to that it was fairly localised in the Donbas area and Crimea a fait d'accompli. However, everything changed last year and the gloves came off. Added to that the bitterness now entrenched with accusations, much of which is sadly well founded, of war crimes. As of now, this regrettably has to end with Putin (not Russia, per se) being seen to lose otherwise he'll merely regroup and come again harder in a few years. Sadly Putin is so far immersed in this that it may take a coup to bring this to a conclusion, however that may well cause further repercussions including inside Russia itself. There are no good options. Manufacturers don't want this to end they want it to continue. It's not just supporting that conflict either. By countries like the UK getting rid of old stock, we can also invest in new kit. |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 12, 2023 11:10:51 GMT
IMO the compromise solution was lost the moment Russian forces attacked Kyiv, prior to that it was fairly localised in the Donbas area and Crimea a fait d'accompli. However, everything changed last year and the gloves came off. Added to that the bitterness now entrenched with accusations, much of which is sadly well founded, of war crimes. As of now, this regrettably has to end with Putin (not Russia, per se) being seen to lose otherwise he'll merely regroup and come again harder in a few years. Sadly Putin is so far immersed in this that it may take a coup to bring this to a conclusion, however that may well cause further repercussions including inside Russia itself. There are no good options. Manufacturers don't want this to end they want it to continue. It's not just supporting that conflict either. By countries like the UK getting rid of old stock, we can also invest in new kit. There are always winners whatever the circumstances, my dad was often fond of saying undertakers like war. Munitions have a shelf life so they would otherwise be used in exercises, what we are seeing is Ukraine being given older stock which in many ways, though not all, would have to be disposed of anyway. The manufacturers may well see this as an opportunity, however that is a by product, it's neither the cause of this conflict nor is it a valid reason to stop our support. We wouldn't be having this conversation had we been attacked rather than Ukraine, we'd be getting all we could. |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 19, 2023 17:12:44 GMT
Looks like the US is softening its tone over the transfer of F16s. Ukraine recently requested the Eurofighter Typhoon training offer be changed.
Apparently Ukrainian pilots testing feasibility in the US have qualified on them in record time.
Expect news on countries like Norway or The Netherlands providing the aircraft and the UK doing much of the training. An outside bet could well have a handful already up and running.
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Post by Gassy on May 20, 2023 11:08:19 GMT
Looks like the US is softening its tone over the transfer of F16s. Ukraine recently requested the Eurofighter Typhoon training offer be changed. Apparently Ukrainian pilots testing feasibility in the US have qualified on them in record time. Expect news on countries like Norway or The Netherlands providing the aircraft and the UK doing much of the training. An outside bet could well have a handful already up and running. Where would they store them? I’d imagine they’d be pretty easy for Russia to target if they don’t have such a strong infrastructure? All of this is slowly upping the ante though and I wonder how long Russia can continue. The west must be at level 2 or 3 of the power in which we would back Ukraine? |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 20, 2023 13:35:42 GMT
Looks like the US is softening its tone over the transfer of F16s. Ukraine recently requested the Eurofighter Typhoon training offer be changed. Apparently Ukrainian pilots testing feasibility in the US have qualified on them in record time. Expect news on countries like Norway or The Netherlands providing the aircraft and the UK doing much of the training. An outside bet could well have a handful already up and running. Where would they store them? I’d imagine they’d be pretty easy for Russia to target if they don’t have such a strong infrastructure? All of this is slowly upping the ante though and I wonder how long Russia can continue. The west must be at level 2 or 3 of the power in which we would back Ukraine? There are two key aspects at play here, the military one and the political one. Militarily it is a game changer in that it will greatly help air defences against drones, cruise missiles and the Russian air force. Its not a panacea but it will help a lot. It will also have potential benefits in the land campaign. Politically it maintains the West's involvement. Russia's only real advantage is time, they are willing to keep throwing men into battle, be they mercenaries, prisoners or regular Russian army personnel, to keep the territory they have. They are probably playing a waiting game for western and other support to wain in the hope they can keep what they hold. There are plenty of countries still neutral or quietly backing Moscow (see S Africa or Brazil). |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 20, 2023 23:18:49 GMT
I mentioned Wagner being in Africa a while ago. With the Bakhmut announcement earlier it may allow Wagner to relocate to Sudan and consolidate there and other places like Mali with its credibility amongst Russians, reasonably high.
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Post by stuart1974 on May 25, 2023 13:30:56 GMT
Pyrrhic, yet symbolic, victory if true. Wagner now withdrawing in favour of regular Russian army. "The head of Russia's Wagner mercenary group has announced that its forces have started withdrawing from the Ukrainian city of Bakhmut. Yevgeny Prigozhin has vowed to transfer control of the city to the Russian army by 1 June, but Kyiv says it still controls pockets of the city. Wagner mercenaries have concentrated their efforts on the city for months and their relentless, costly tactic of sending in waves of men seems to have gradually eroded Kyiv's resistance. Mr Prigozhin has emerged as a key player in Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine launched in February 2022, in charge of the private army of mercenaries. He recruited thousands of convicted criminals from jail for his group - no matter how grave their crimes - as long as they agreed to fight for Wagner in Ukraine. Around half of the 20,000 Wagner fighters to have died in Bakhmut were convicts, Mr Prigozhin said this week." www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65705733 |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 30, 2023 13:52:58 GMT
South Africa are looking to cite Diplomatic Immunity for the upcoming BRICS conference, it would allow Putin to attend and not arrest him as per the International Arrest Warrant.
Will he 'show the West' by attending but risk being out of the country when many a coup has been staged?
Things appear to be increasing on the battlefield too, some small actions that may or may not point to the expected Ukrainian offensive.
Don't be surprised if very little happens but equally it may genuinely be the start of something bigger.
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