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Post by stuart1974 on May 15, 2024 9:03:08 GMT
Certainly does,they are so insular in the US they have no real idea that Putin is a threat to world peace,time to stand up and be counted. It's a tired analogy that the US will realise a couple of years too late there is a war starting in Europe, but how much louder do we have to shout at them...? We need to wake up ourselves too. Plenty of people who just want to ignore what is happening or even support Russia (we've had them on here). Macron seems to have realised, Scholtz less so. Those with a border understand. |
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Post by trevorgas on May 15, 2024 9:54:37 GMT
Certainly does,they are so insular in the US they have no real idea that Putin is a threat to world peace,time to stand up and be counted. It's a tired analogy that the US will realise a couple of years too late there is a war starting in Europe, but how much louder do we have to shout at them...? They will wait until there's an attack on a NATO country, politicians in the US are wracked by isolationism and an almost cult like fascination with dangerous people like Trump |
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Post by trevorgas on May 15, 2024 9:55:49 GMT
It's a tired analogy that the US will realise a couple of years too late there is a war starting in Europe, but how much louder do we have to shout at them...? We need to wake up ourselves too. Plenty of people who just want to ignore what is happening or even support Russia (we've had them on here). Macron seems to have realised, Scholtz less so. Those with a border understand. Dead right,the Putin play book is playing out in Georgia,who's next? |
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Post by supergas on May 15, 2024 9:57:19 GMT
It's a tired analogy that the US will realise a couple of years too late there is a war starting in Europe, but how much louder do we have to shout at them...? We need to wake up ourselves too. Plenty of people who just want to ignore what is happening or even support Russia (we've had them on here). Macron seems to have realised, Scholtz less so. Those with a border understand. Fair point, mainstream media likes to avoid the topic whenever something else happens and I cannot understand why anyone thinks Russia are not completely to blame for this war and these war crimes. If he was Jewish it might be a different story... |
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Post by supergas on May 15, 2024 9:58:58 GMT
It's a tired analogy that the US will realise a couple of years too late there is a war starting in Europe, but how much louder do we have to shout at them...? They will wait until there's an attack on a NATO country, politicians in the US are wracked by isolationism and an almost cult like fascination with dangerous people like Trump A point that is becoming more and more obvious. I was about to ask if they even teach history over there but I guess even if they do the current politicians failed on that and many other topics.... |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 15, 2024 10:38:32 GMT
They will wait until there's an attack on a NATO country, politicians in the US are wracked by isolationism and an almost cult like fascination with dangerous people like Trump A point that is becoming more and more obvious. I was about to ask if they even teach history over there but I guess even if they do the current politicians failed on that and many other topics.... The US fight wars to teach geography, or at least that's the jibe. You just have to look at the demonstrations in the early 1940s, the world is a more dangerous place if the US looks at splendid isolation. Slightly off topic but I think is relevant in the round, Corbyn was asked if any war was justified. His answer was the Second World War. I wonder at which stage he would have come to that conclusion. 1936, 1939, 1940, 1942 or only once we discovered the Extermination Camps? This rings true for people even now, Ukraine "is a country far away of which we know little". |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 15, 2024 10:41:20 GMT
We need to wake up ourselves too. Plenty of people who just want to ignore what is happening or even support Russia (we've had them on here). Macron seems to have realised, Scholtz less so. Those with a border understand. Dead right,the Putin play book is playing out in Georgia,who's next? The central Asian countries, Caucuses and Africa. Possibly Moldova but I don't think the Baltic states are in any direct danger at the moment, their Achillies Heel is the large Russian population and the use of agitators. |
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Post by supergas on May 15, 2024 10:46:33 GMT
A point that is becoming more and more obvious. I was about to ask if they even teach history over there but I guess even if they do the current politicians failed on that and many other topics.... The US fight wars to teach geography, or at least that's the jibe. You just have to look at the demonstrations in the early 1940s, the world is a more dangerous place if the US looks at splendid isolation. Slightly off topic but I think is relevant in the round, Corbyn was asked if any war was justified. His answer was the Second World War. I wonder at which stage he would have come to that conclusion. 1936, 1939, 1940, 1942 or only once we discovered the Extermination Camps? This rings true for people even now, Ukraine "is a country far away of which we know little". But there are a lot of people in the UK (and other countries like the US, Germany, Japan, etc) from the parliaments to the universities to the schoolrooms to the pubs who are looking at this and realising that we're basically at the point of when vs if we will have go to war with Russia over this issue...if Russia 'wins' they won't stop at Ukraine, so surely we should stop them before they take Ukraine...? The Corbyn quote is interesting. I can't remember when he gave it but assuming he was LOTO at the time there was no really serious threat anywhere in the world - no wonder many in Eastern Europe described him as "...a useful idiot..." |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 15, 2024 10:57:26 GMT
The US fight wars to teach geography, or at least that's the jibe. You just have to look at the demonstrations in the early 1940s, the world is a more dangerous place if the US looks at splendid isolation. Slightly off topic but I think is relevant in the round, Corbyn was asked if any war was justified. His answer was the Second World War. I wonder at which stage he would have come to that conclusion. 1936, 1939, 1940, 1942 or only once we discovered the Extermination Camps? This rings true for people even now, Ukraine "is a country far away of which we know little". But there are a lot of people in the UK (and other countries like the US, Germany, Japan, etc) from the parliaments to the universities to the schoolrooms to the pubs who are looking at this and realising that we're basically at the point of when vs if we will have go to war with Russia over this issue...if Russia 'wins' they won't stop at Ukraine, so surely we should stop them before they take Ukraine...? The Corbyn quote is interesting. I can't remember when he gave it but assuming he was LOTO at the time there was no really serious threat anywhere in the world - no wonder many in Eastern Europe described him as "...a useful idiot..." I've been warning about Putin since at least 2008, in fact the alarm bells should have started in 1999 and how he handled Grozny. Agreed that we need to stop Putin now, we need to give Ukraine as much support as we can but we aren't ready for any direct involvement. The big worry is a Trump victory in November. |
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Post by supergas on May 15, 2024 11:03:08 GMT
But there are a lot of people in the UK (and other countries like the US, Germany, Japan, etc) from the parliaments to the universities to the schoolrooms to the pubs who are looking at this and realising that we're basically at the point of when vs if we will have go to war with Russia over this issue...if Russia 'wins' they won't stop at Ukraine, so surely we should stop them before they take Ukraine...? The Corbyn quote is interesting. I can't remember when he gave it but assuming he was LOTO at the time there was no really serious threat anywhere in the world - no wonder many in Eastern Europe described him as "...a useful idiot..." I've been warning about Putin since at least 2008, in fact the alarm bells should have started in 1999 and how he handled Grozny. Agreed that we need to stop Putin now, we need to give Ukraine as much support as we can but we aren't ready for any direct involvement. The big worry is a Trump victory in November. That is a worry, but you also have to ask the Democrats why they can't find a single candidate other than Biden who could easily win enough centre-ground to win a landslide vs Trump. From the moment Obama left office they should have been working on his replacement and in no sensible discussion should Biden have been touted, let alone for a second term. Is it an exaggeration to suggest the reason Putin went on the offensive is because the US Democratic Party can't get their act together...? |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 15, 2024 11:16:31 GMT
I've been warning about Putin since at least 2008, in fact the alarm bells should have started in 1999 and how he handled Grozny. Agreed that we need to stop Putin now, we need to give Ukraine as much support as we can but we aren't ready for any direct involvement. The big worry is a Trump victory in November. That is a worry, but you also have to ask the Democrats why they can't find a single candidate other than Biden who could easily win enough centre-ground to win a landslide vs Trump. From the moment Obama left office they should have been working on his replacement and in no sensible discussion should Biden have been touted, let alone for a second term. Is it an exaggeration to suggest the reason Putin went on the offensive is because the US Democratic Party can't get their act together...? Putin was emboldened by the US withdrawal from Afghanistan, that fault lies with both Trump and Biden. It's not just that, it was also the disunity of the west in general, the inability to do anything in Syria and a myriad of other smaller factors. So, I would say it is an exaggeration. |
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Post by supergas on May 15, 2024 11:24:22 GMT
That is a worry, but you also have to ask the Democrats why they can't find a single candidate other than Biden who could easily win enough centre-ground to win a landslide vs Trump. From the moment Obama left office they should have been working on his replacement and in no sensible discussion should Biden have been touted, let alone for a second term. Is it an exaggeration to suggest the reason Putin went on the offensive is because the US Democratic Party can't get their act together...? Putin was emboldened by the US withdrawal from Afghanistan, that fault lies with both Trump and Biden. It's not just that, it was also the disunity of the west in general, the inability to do anything in Syria and a myriad of other smaller factors. So, I would say it is an exaggeration. Fair enough, but six years ago I can't believe any senior Democrat was taking it for granted that Biden would win, and certainly not serve two terms. I assumed they were lining up Harris to step up this year... ...as for the second-tier superpowers, China and India will always side towards their nearby powerful neighbour, so we look to the EU I guess...muddled and infighting at best, empowering Russia at worst.... |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 15, 2024 11:33:21 GMT
Putin was emboldened by the US withdrawal from Afghanistan, that fault lies with both Trump and Biden. It's not just that, it was also the disunity of the west in general, the inability to do anything in Syria and a myriad of other smaller factors. So, I would say it is an exaggeration. Fair enough, but six years ago I can't believe any senior Democrat was taking it for granted that Biden would win, and certainly not serve two terms. I assumed they were lining up Harris to step up this year... ...as for the second-tier superpowers, China and India will always side towards their nearby powerful neighbour, so we look to the EU I guess...muddled and infighting at best, empowering Russia at worst.... The EU we used to be part of and lead on with regards to foreign policy and defence matters? That EU? 😀 |
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Post by supergas on May 15, 2024 11:53:35 GMT
Fair enough, but six years ago I can't believe any senior Democrat was taking it for granted that Biden would win, and certainly not serve two terms. I assumed they were lining up Harris to step up this year... ...as for the second-tier superpowers, China and India will always side towards their nearby powerful neighbour, so we look to the EU I guess...muddled and infighting at best, empowering Russia at worst.... The EU we used to be part of and lead on with regards to foreign policy and defence matters? That EU? 😀 If you think we ever had a serious voice in the EU in recent years (pre-Brexit) then I suggest you go back and look at some of the EU parliamentary debates and decisions. Foreign policy and defence has been run though NATO and the UN for decades, not sure why the EU even needs to worry about it... |
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Post by trevorgas on May 15, 2024 12:03:05 GMT
Dead right,the Putin play book is playing out in Georgia,who's next? The central Asian countries, Caucuses and Africa. Possibly Moldova but I don't think the Baltic states are in any direct danger at the moment, their Achillies Heel is the large Russian population and the use of agitators. Yep,the old " we're only here to protect ethnic russians" quote |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 15, 2024 12:04:08 GMT
The EU we used to be part of and lead on with regards to foreign policy and defence matters? That EU? 😀 If you think we ever had a serious voice in the EU in recent years (pre-Brexit) then I suggest you go back and look at some of the EU parliamentary debates and decisions. Foreign policy and defence has been run though NATO and the UN for decades, not sure why the EU even needs to worry about it... Sorry, Super, incorrect on all counts. |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 21, 2024 22:36:25 GMT
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Post by trevorgas on May 22, 2024 12:04:36 GMT
All part of the Greater Russia plan as anyone in those waters will be targeted as a threat to Russia. |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 29, 2024 17:21:55 GMT
Sweden being very generous today, including a couple of airborne early warning aircraft. When the F16s come on stream that will make for a formidable pairing.
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Post by trevorgas on May 29, 2024 17:40:16 GMT
Sweden being very generous today, including a couple of airborne early warning aircraft. When the F16s come on stream that will make for a formidable pairing. Agreed,let's hope it all arrives in time,got an uneasy feeling about the summer fighting season. |
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