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Post by rovers5charlton5 on Feb 26, 2022 10:37:28 GMT
Abramovichs Grandparents were Ukranian. Just because Roman Abramovich is a ridiculously wealthy Oligarch doesn't mean he stands with Putin. Utter nonsense Just read an article that If Roman demands his money back out of chelsea they will go bust, lives are more important than football but anciliated things like this may result. Yes, but pussy footing around with this nutter is what's gotten us into this situation in the first place. We need to sanction without worrying about temporary loss to our own businesses. After all nobody can say they didn't have some doubts about Russia before they started dealing with them.
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Post by station on Feb 26, 2022 10:40:29 GMT
How about getting back to simple suggestion that we in a free speaking country show our support at 14:55 today ✌️
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Post by bluecamel on Feb 26, 2022 10:41:47 GMT
✊👏👏👏👏
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Post by Gastafari on Feb 26, 2022 10:44:42 GMT
Polish FA refusing to play world cup play off v Russia, good for them not waiting for FIF suits and money men to meet and decide, feel desperately for Ukrainians, also spare a thought for the millions of average Russians who's country suffered greatly in WW2 and i am sure want nothing to do with Putin's mad ambitions, We and rest of West have been sleep walking to this scenario for several years IMHO, even now Europe is arguing about sanctions to the extent 'yes we are all for sanctions as long as it does not cost us' , would it be to much to ask them to put there own interest to the side for the wider good, probably , ok soap box away ,up the Rovers! Spot on. Sorry to go back to Abramovich but his family history is a sad story his Grandparents suffered greatly, just like many Jews in World War 2. I will defend him from this narrative that he is part of Putins gang.
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Post by seanclevedongas on Feb 26, 2022 11:06:56 GMT
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Post by olskooltoteender on Feb 26, 2022 11:16:15 GMT
I think there’s a lot more to this situation than it just being a case of “Putin bad, Ukraine good”. People are looking at this very simplistically, but ignoring the wider context. The elected (broadly pro-Russian) government of Ukraine was ousted in 2014 by what was basically a coup, backed by the US & EU. Historically speaking, the south and east of Ukraine have seen themselves as closer to Russia, whilst the west and north have wanted closer ties to Europe & the West. As a result of the govt being toppled, pro-Russian separatists in southern and eastern Ukraine started clashing with the Ukrainian military and have been fighting them for the last 8 years, backed by aid from Russia, while the present Ukrainian govt have been backed by the Americans and the EU; they’ve also been trying to join the EU & NATO, which quite understandably has made the Russians nervous, as since it’s inception there has always been the buffer of countries like Poland, Ukraine, Belarus etc between NATO & the old USSR/Russian Federation. All of a sudden the balance changes and NATO is right on their doorstep! I’m not excusing the military actions in Ukraine, but it’s not as simple as people are making it out to be.
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Feb 26, 2022 11:28:12 GMT
I think there’s a lot more to this situation than it just being a case of “Putin bad, Ukraine good”. People are looking at this very simplistically, but ignoring the wider context. The elected (broadly pro-Russian) government of Ukraine was ousted in 2014 by what was basically a coup, backed by the US & EU. Historically speaking, the south and east of Ukraine have seen themselves as closer to Russia, whilst the west and north have wanted closer ties to Europe & the West. As a result of the govt being toppled, pro-Russian separatists in southern and eastern Ukraine started clashing with the Ukrainian military and have been fighting them for the last 8 years, backed by aid from Russia, while the present Ukrainian govt have been backed by the Americans and the EU; they’ve also been trying to join the EU & NATO, which quite understandably has made the Russians nervous, as since it’s inception there has always been the buffer of countries like Poland, Ukraine, Belarus etc between NATO & the old USSR/Russian Federation. All of a sudden the balance changes and NATO is right on their doorstep! I’m not excusing the military actions in Ukraine, but it’s not as simple as people are making it out to be. Agreed, the policies and decisions made in the last 30 years (and some even further back than that) have led to where we are now. But let’s not forget Putin is the aggressor in this situation and he seems certain not to resolve it peacefully.
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Post by rovers5charlton5 on Feb 26, 2022 11:28:50 GMT
I think there’s a lot more to this situation than it just being a case of “Putin bad, Ukraine good”. People are looking at this very simplistically, but ignoring the wider context. The elected (broadly pro-Russian) government of Ukraine was ousted in 2014 by what was basically a coup, backed by the US & EU. Historically speaking, the south and east of Ukraine have seen themselves as closer to Russia, whilst the west and north have wanted closer ties to Europe & the West. As a result of the govt being toppled, pro-Russian separatists in southern and eastern Ukraine started clashing with the Ukrainian military and have been fighting them for the last 8 years, backed by aid from Russia, while the present Ukrainian govt have been backed by the Americans and the EU; they’ve also been trying to join the EU & NATO, which quite understandably has made the Russians nervous, as since it’s inception there has always been the buffer of countries like Poland, Ukraine, Belarus etc between NATO & the old USSR/Russian Federation. All of a sudden the balance changes and NATO is right on their doorstep! I’m not excusing the military actions in Ukraine, but it’s not as simple as people are making it out to be. If you're talking of a broader picture here, hasn't Putin fixed elections and manipulated the Russian constitution for years, desperately clinging to power so that he can carry out this expansionist agenda? He has absolutely no justification for invading Ukraine regardless of the validity of the current regime. He is undefensible I'm afraid.
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 26, 2022 11:43:09 GMT
I think there’s a lot more to this situation than it just being a case of “Putin bad, Ukraine good”. People are looking at this very simplistically, but ignoring the wider context. The elected (broadly pro-Russian) government of Ukraine was ousted in 2014 by what was basically a coup, backed by the US & EU. Historically speaking, the south and east of Ukraine have seen themselves as closer to Russia, whilst the west and north have wanted closer ties to Europe & the West. As a result of the govt being toppled, pro-Russian separatists in southern and eastern Ukraine started clashing with the Ukrainian military and have been fighting them for the last 8 years, backed by aid from Russia, while the present Ukrainian govt have been backed by the Americans and the EU; they’ve also been trying to join the EU & NATO, which quite understandably has made the Russians nervous, as since it’s inception there has always been the buffer of countries like Poland, Ukraine, Belarus etc between NATO & the old USSR/Russian Federation. All of a sudden the balance changes and NATO is right on their doorstep! I’m not excusing the military actions in Ukraine, but it’s not as simple as people are making it out to be. It didn't happen overnight, the likes of Poland have been members of Nato and the EU for the best part of 20 years.
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Post by wertongas on Feb 26, 2022 11:43:28 GMT
I think there’s a lot more to this situation than it just being a case of “Putin bad, Ukraine good”. People are looking at this very simplistically, but ignoring the wider context. The elected (broadly pro-Russian) government of Ukraine was ousted in 2014 by what was basically a coup, backed by the US & EU. Historically speaking, the south and east of Ukraine have seen themselves as closer to Russia, whilst the west and north have wanted closer ties to Europe & the West. As a result of the govt being toppled, pro-Russian separatists in southern and eastern Ukraine started clashing with the Ukrainian military and have been fighting them for the last 8 years, backed by aid from Russia, while the present Ukrainian govt have been backed by the Americans and the EU; they’ve also been trying to join the EU & NATO, which quite understandably has made the Russians nervous, as since it’s inception there has always been the buffer of countries like Poland, Ukraine, Belarus etc between NATO & the old USSR/Russian Federation. All of a sudden the balance changes and NATO is right on their doorstep! I’m not excusing the military actions in Ukraine, but it’s not as simple as people are making it out to be. That is not correct it wasn't a coup, the people rose up against the government because it would not sign a trade agreement with Europe , new elections were held a new government was elected with a landslide majority unlike Russia where the opposition are snuffed out and not allowed equal rights in so called elections.
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 26, 2022 11:45:31 GMT
The thing to remember is that targeting the likes of Abramovich isn't to punish him by association, it's to bring pressure on those with influence. And let's be honest, missing a football match or not having access to your last £bn isn't really comparable to what is happening at the moment.
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,329
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Post by pirate on Feb 26, 2022 12:07:10 GMT
I think there’s a lot more to this situation than it just being a case of “Putin bad, Ukraine good”. People are looking at this very simplistically, but ignoring the wider context. The elected (broadly pro-Russian) government of Ukraine was ousted in 2014 by what was basically a coup, backed by the US & EU. Historically speaking, the south and east of Ukraine have seen themselves as closer to Russia, whilst the west and north have wanted closer ties to Europe & the West. As a result of the govt being toppled, pro-Russian separatists in southern and eastern Ukraine started clashing with the Ukrainian military and have been fighting them for the last 8 years, backed by aid from Russia, while the present Ukrainian govt have been backed by the Americans and the EU; they’ve also been trying to join the EU & NATO, which quite understandably has made the Russians nervous, as since it’s inception there has always been the buffer of countries like Poland, Ukraine, Belarus etc between NATO & the old USSR/Russian Federation. All of a sudden the balance changes and NATO is right on their doorstep! I’m not excusing the military actions in Ukraine, but it’s not as simple as people are making it out to be. That is not correct it wasn't a coup, the people rose up against the government because it would not sign a trade agreement with Europe , new elections were held a new government was elected with a landslide majority unlike Russia where the opposition are snuffed out and not allowed equal rights in so called elections. Not a coup at all. mronline.org/2022/02/24/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/
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Post by e4bandrobinstubbs on Feb 26, 2022 12:25:53 GMT
FFS wise-up you Gas. This isn't about being a clever dick and spouting political theory. This topic is about Ukrainian people - people like us. Ukrainians have always been fearful of Russia because they know Russia can walk all over them, so they have been very benign and prudent. Ukrainian people are peace-loving, nature-loving, family & friends-loving, generous and kind to each other and their guests. THESE are the people we must talk about not pathetic politicians (Germany & Italy take note). One of my friends is right now queuing on the Polish border with kids, another has fled with his family to the countryside to escape the bombing, and another is......we don't know where, but lives in Kyiv. No contact. Very worried. Remember, you Gas, that Ukrainians are EUROPEANS. They have European tastes, behaviour, religions, understanding and hopes. They really love their country, not nationalistically, because it is their home. Now compare all that with the other lot. Ukrainian refugees are welcome in my house any time - they truly would enrich our lives.
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Post by olskooltoteender on Feb 26, 2022 12:30:23 GMT
FFS wise-up you Gas. This isn't about being a clever dick and spouting political theory. This topic is about Ukrainian people - people like us. Ukrainians have always been fearful of Russia because they know Russia can walk all over them, so they have been very benign and prudent. Ukrainian people are peace-loving, nature-loving, family & friends-loving, generous and kind to each other and their guests. THESE are the people we must talk about not pathetic politicians (Germany & Italy take note). One of my friends is right now queuing on the Polish border with kids, another has fled with his family to the countryside to escape the bombing, and another is......we don't know where, but lives in Kyiv. No contact. Very worried. Remember, you Gas, that Ukrainians are EUROPEANS. They have European tastes, behaviour, religions, understanding and hopes. They really love their country, not nationalistically, because it is their home. Now compare all that with the other lot. Ukrainian refugees are welcome in my house any time - they truly would enrich our lives. I also have friends in Ukraine, as well as in Russia; none of them want to be at war with each other.
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Post by trevorgas on Feb 26, 2022 13:12:52 GMT
FFS wise-up you Gas. This isn't about being a clever dick and spouting political theory. This topic is about Ukrainian people - people like us. Ukrainians have always been fearful of Russia because they know Russia can walk all over them, so they have been very benign and prudent. Ukrainian people are peace-loving, nature-loving, family & friends-loving, generous and kind to each other and their guests. THESE are the people we must talk about not pathetic politicians (Germany & Italy take note). One of my friends is right now queuing on the Polish border with kids, another has fled with his family to the countryside to escape the bombing, and another is......we don't know where, but lives in Kyiv. No contact. Very worried. Remember, you Gas, that Ukrainians are EUROPEANS. They have European tastes, behaviour, religions, understanding and hopes. They really love their country, not nationalistically, because it is their home. Now compare all that with the other lot. Ukrainian refugees are welcome in my house any time - they truly would enrich our lives. Well said and with heart felt passion good for you ,
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Post by olskooltoteender on Feb 26, 2022 13:39:15 GMT
That is not correct it wasn't a coup, the people rose up against the government because it would not sign a trade agreement with Europe , new elections were held a new government was elected with a landslide majority unlike Russia where the opposition are snuffed out and not allowed equal rights in so called elections. Not a coup at all. mronline.org/2022/02/24/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/The “people” didn’t “rise up”; it was all orchestrated by the EU & US because the then president of the Ukraine decided to resist implementing the changes that the US, EU & IMF wanted to see, ie lowering wages etc in order to make it more “attractive” to outside investors (cheap labour, lower cost/standard of living, etc). As a result a coup was staged, he was overthrown and replaced by a pro-EU, pro-US regime.
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Post by olskooltoteender on Feb 26, 2022 13:44:33 GMT
By the way, you might want to Google “Azov Battalion” . . .
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,329
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Post by pirate on Feb 26, 2022 13:46:08 GMT
The “people” didn’t “rise up”; it was all orchestrated by the EU & US because the then president of the Ukraine decided to resist implementing the changes that the US, EU & IMF wanted to see, ie lowering wages etc in order to make it more “attractive” to outside investors (cheap labour, lower cost/standard of living, etc). As a result a coup was staged, he was overthrown and replaced by a pro-EU, pro-US regime. That is what the article says.
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Post by socrates on Feb 26, 2022 13:57:47 GMT
Shall we have a show of support for the people in Damascus , Somalia , Yehmen as well as Ukraine too then because all of these places have suffered bombings in the last 48 hours and innocent people have been killed. All of them at the hands of either NATO forces or forces that are allies of the west other than Ukraine by that evil Putin.
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Post by filtongas on Feb 26, 2022 14:01:23 GMT
What is it with some on here, Stop turning this into a i know best debate, just show some support for the Ukrainian people at the mem,or is that to much to ask.
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