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Post by gashead79 on May 8, 2023 8:28:49 GMT
You're stretching a bit! That's also not what the poster advertises.. It just looks like more divisive nonsense which serves zero purpose. The area was immaculate today btw. Protest legally? There were plenty of protesters there yesterday who had a large section of trafalgar square to shout and ball. They seemed to be enjoying the day like everybody else🤷♂️ This twitter video isn't that. It's just a saddo looking for likes and stoking controversy that doesn't really exist. You made me look again. But yes, the video shows abandoned tents and detritus spread everywhere. Which is a breach. As for the arrests, I never thought I would see the day that police in this country would arrest people for threatening to protest peacefully. What have we become...my god As with many things in the press, we only get what we're given. Social media and camera phones sometimes bridge a gap but then it's anecdotal and from somebody's perspective-biased. I would imagine that on one of the most important days of the Royal Family calendar, the authorities couldn't take a chance. Chat rooms will have been monitored. Covert ops will have infiltrated the groups, and people generally talk too much anyway, so any hint of something more than peaceful protest would be squashed. Did it work? I think so. Is it right? Possibly not. Risk/Reward? That's on the head of the decision makers. |
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Post by oldie on May 8, 2023 10:06:55 GMT
You made me look again. But yes, the video shows abandoned tents and detritus spread everywhere. Which is a breach. As for the arrests, I never thought I would see the day that police in this country would arrest people for threatening to protest peacefully. What have we become...my god As with many things in the press, we only get what we're given. Social media and camera phones sometimes bridge a gap but then it's anecdotal and from somebody's perspective-biased. I would imagine that on one of the most important days of the Royal Family calendar, the authorities couldn't take a chance. Chat rooms will have been monitored. Covert ops will have infiltrated the groups, and people generally talk too much anyway, so any hint of something more than peaceful protest would be squashed. Did it work? I think so. Is it right? Possibly not. Risk/Reward? That's on the head of the decision makers. Hi G79 I think, and to your point, the video couldn't have been stage managed, those scenes were exactly as the Royalists left them. I absolutely get the services protecting the family by all means possible, they were after all a sitting duck for those seeking to perpetuate violence in support of their aims. But that is not English Republicans who seek only a peaceful demonstration to make their views heard. The risk/reward calculation no longer exists as the current government has awarded the police "Carte Blanche" to arrest anyone they deem is being a nuisance. It's a very sad state of affairs that after our forefathers and mother's fought to prevent this sort of thing, we slip into passive acceptance of such government control of our lives. |
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Post by gashead79 on May 8, 2023 12:33:51 GMT
As with many things in the press, we only get what we're given. Social media and camera phones sometimes bridge a gap but then it's anecdotal and from somebody's perspective-biased. I would imagine that on one of the most important days of the Royal Family calendar, the authorities couldn't take a chance. Chat rooms will have been monitored. Covert ops will have infiltrated the groups, and people generally talk too much anyway, so any hint of something more than peaceful protest would be squashed. Did it work? I think so. Is it right? Possibly not. Risk/Reward? That's on the head of the decision makers. Hi G79 I think, and to your point, the video couldn't have been stage managed, those scenes were exactly as the Royalists left them. I absolutely get the services protecting the family by all means possible, they were after all a sitting duck for those seeking to perpetuate violence in support of their aims. But that is not English Republicans who seek only a peaceful demonstration to make their views heard. The risk/reward calculation no longer exists as the current government has awarded the police "Carte Blanche" to arrest anyone they deem is being a nuisance. It's a very sad state of affairs that after our forefathers and mother's fought to prevent this sort of thing, we slip into passive acceptance of such government control of our lives. I get it, but it's not quite as extreme as your last sentence suggests imo. People protest and make their feelings known quite regularly in the UK. Hardly a summer week goes by without something going off in Bristol alone. This event was an exception, and lets be honest here, would the alternative headlines be better than a few people getting plucked out for arrest? Just imagine the scenes if one psycho managed to anywhere near the King. |
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Post by aghast on May 8, 2023 21:42:32 GMT
Hi G79 I think, and to your point, the video couldn't have been stage managed, those scenes were exactly as the Royalists left them. I absolutely get the services protecting the family by all means possible, they were after all a sitting duck for those seeking to perpetuate violence in support of their aims. But that is not English Republicans who seek only a peaceful demonstration to make their views heard. The risk/reward calculation no longer exists as the current government has awarded the police "Carte Blanche" to arrest anyone they deem is being a nuisance. It's a very sad state of affairs that after our forefathers and mother's fought to prevent this sort of thing, we slip into passive acceptance of such government control of our lives. I get it, but it's not quite as extreme as your last sentence suggests imo. People protest and make their feelings known quite regularly in the UK. Hardly a summer week goes by without something going off in Bristol alone. This event was an exception, and lets be honest here, would the alternative headlines be better than a few people getting plucked out for arrest? Just imagine the scenes if one psycho managed to anywhere near the King. I understand what you're saying, and understand why it was done, because the alternative could have been disastrous. Not that it was very likely this group would have been responsible. But if it's going to be deemed acceptable to remove people from the streets then it needs to be enshrined in law, not just done as and when the government or the Met or an individual officer feels like it, and we can then all know where we stand, Or not, if we've been moved on, not because we were doing anything wrong, or considered likely to do anything wrong, but because it's possible we might have done something wrong. Which covers just about the whole population, at any chosen time. Good luck getting that one into the statutes. |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 8, 2023 22:22:07 GMT
I get it, but it's not quite as extreme as your last sentence suggests imo. People protest and make their feelings known quite regularly in the UK. Hardly a summer week goes by without something going off in Bristol alone. This event was an exception, and lets be honest here, would the alternative headlines be better than a few people getting plucked out for arrest? Just imagine the scenes if one psycho managed to anywhere near the King. I understand what you're saying, and understand why it was done, because the alternative could have been disastrous. Not that it was very likely this group would have been responsible. But if it's going to be deemed acceptable to remove people from the streets then it needs to be enshrined in law, not just done as and when the government or the Met or an individual officer feels like it, and we can then all know where we stand, Or not, if we've been moved on, not because we were doing anything wrong, or considered likely to do anything wrong, but because it's possible we might have done something wrong. Which covers just about the whole population, at any chosen time. Good luck getting that one into the statutes. Like the Public Order Act 2023? |
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Post by aghast on May 8, 2023 22:32:41 GMT
I understand what you're saying, and understand why it was done, because the alternative could have been disastrous. Not that it was very likely this group would have been responsible. But if it's going to be deemed acceptable to remove people from the streets then it needs to be enshrined in law, not just done as and when the government or the Met or an individual officer feels like it, and we can then all know where we stand, Or not, if we've been moved on, not because we were doing anything wrong, or considered likely to do anything wrong, but because it's possible we might have done something wrong. Which covers just about the whole population, at any chosen time. Good luck getting that one into the statutes. Like the Public Order Act 2023? Well yes if enacted properly, but it wasn't. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65527007 |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 8, 2023 22:55:53 GMT
It was even passed properly, after the Lords kept on returning it, it was eventually passed by 'viva voce' instead of a formal vote. Labour are being pressed to revoke it should they win the next GE. |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 9, 2023 23:20:22 GMT
UKIP all but dead, voters migrated to the Conservatives. We knew that, though. "But Dr David Jeffery, a senior lecturer in British Politics at the University of Liverpool, said there appeared to be no way back for populist parties on the right of politics. "Even Reform, the party to the right of the Conservatives with the most funding and media attention, without the galvanising issue of EU membership struggles to break past 6% in the polls," he said. "The party is over for UKIP." Many of those who voted for UKIP in the mid-2010s haven't gone away though. Instead, many of them switched to the Conservatives after former Prime Minister Boris Johnson promised to "get Brexit done". "We are now one of the only Western democracies to not have a successful populist party," said Matthew Goodwin, a professor of politics and the author of a book about UKIP's rise. "Much of this reflects how the Conservatives repositioned after Brexit to attract Nigel Farage's voters, though whether they can keep this force at bay, with rising immigration and a spiralling cost-of-living crisis, remains to be seen." " www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65538114 |
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Post by supergas on May 10, 2023 10:00:32 GMT
That's exactly the kind of thing the Electoral Commission will be judging in the coming weeks. Let's not forget all these changes were well publicised many months in advance, so ignorance is unlikely to be a key finding... ...I guess the biggest problem convincing people this has worked is that those who may have been doing it and getting away with it for years will now just stop doing it....but it is worth remembering this change just brings us in line with lots of other countries - Argentina, Brazil, Canada, France, Finland, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, India, Israel, Italy, Mexico, Namibia, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, *Northern Ireland*, 14 US States and lots of other countries that already have similar voter ID laws in place... ...I almost forgot your actual question. IMO I think there are people taking advantage of the current system. When you start looking for it there are a lot more claims about people doing this than their are investigations/convictions. Given that if you need free ID you can get it, there is nothing stopping anyone from casting their vote, but this will stop people casting other people's votes.... This will be a non issue in so far as people who want to vote will vote. I think the bigger issue is how many will just say "sod that" and not bother as a consequence. Participation is not fantastic in any event, the local election for example have well under 50% participation on average. National elections that achieve 70%+ are deemed a success, thich illuminating in itself. If participation rates go into steady decline, with wide differences between age groups and ethnicity, then this measure will be seen as more dangerous to our functioning democracy than an unproven and therefore most likely small number of fraudulent votes. Voter ID is definitely not the reason turnout is low. The lowest estimate of how many of the electorate already have the required ID to vote is 93% of the electorate, it could be as high as 98% (the difference is mostly due to whether people not born in the UK have the relevant ID). Turnout, especially in local elections is low for many reasons and it's not ID. Mostly it's about the politicians who are actually standing. Take the Bristol City Council elections in 2021 as an example. The margins are small anyway, so why would you want to talk about anything even vaguely important, let alone controversial? As a candidate you want your voters to get to the polling station and everyone else to forget there is an election. Examples: Avonmouth and Lawrence Weston, 26 votes between an elected councilor and the next candidate. Bedminster, 27 votes between an elected councilor and the next candidate. Central, 14 votes between an elected councilor and the next candidate. Hartcliffe & Withywood, 26 votes between an elected councilor and the next candidate. Hotwells & Harbourside, 26 votes between an elected councilor and the next candidate. Lockleaze, 67 votes between an elected councilor and the next candidate. Southville, 86 votes between an elected councilor and the next candidate. 34 wards, over a fifth of them decided by fewer than 100 votes. ...turnout is low as these candidates only want their supporters to vote, and so are preaching to the choir. ...and it's also a reminder about why ID is important. Because these kinds of local elections in certain seats can be swung by a handful of votes.... |
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Post by oldie on May 10, 2023 14:43:06 GMT
This will be a non issue in so far as people who want to vote will vote. I think the bigger issue is how many will just say "sod that" and not bother as a consequence. Participation is not fantastic in any event, the local election for example have well under 50% participation on average. National elections that achieve 70%+ are deemed a success, thich illuminating in itself. If participation rates go into steady decline, with wide differences between age groups and ethnicity, then this measure will be seen as more dangerous to our functioning democracy than an unproven and therefore most likely small number of fraudulent votes. Voter ID is definitely not the reason turnout is low. The lowest estimate of how many of the electorate already have the required ID to vote is 93% of the electorate, it could be as high as 98% (the difference is mostly due to whether people not born in the UK have the relevant ID). Turnout, especially in local elections is low for many reasons and it's not ID. Mostly it's about the politicians who are actually standing. Take the Bristol City Council elections in 2021 as an example. The margins are small anyway, so why would you want to talk about anything even vaguely important, let alone controversial? As a candidate you want your voters to get to the polling station and everyone else to forget there is an election. Examples: Avonmouth and Lawrence Weston, 26 votes between an elected councilor and the next candidate. Bedminster, 27 votes between an elected councilor and the next candidate. Central, 14 votes between an elected councilor and the next candidate. Hartcliffe & Withywood, 26 votes between an elected councilor and the next candidate. Hotwells & Harbourside, 26 votes between an elected councilor and the next candidate. Lockleaze, 67 votes between an elected councilor and the next candidate. Southville, 86 votes between an elected councilor and the next candidate. 34 wards, over a fifth of them decided by fewer than 100 votes. ...turnout is low as these candidates only want their supporters to vote, and so are preaching to the choir. ...and it's also a reminder about why ID is important. Because these kinds of local elections in certain seats can be swung by a handful of votes.... I am a bit confused by your remarks. Who claimed voter turnout was low because of ID requirements? This was the first election that it was required, so it's far to early to claim that, which nobody has. The I made was that turnout rates are low enough in any event, any incumbrance is not going to help that, is it. |
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Post by aghast on May 10, 2023 18:15:58 GMT
UKIP all but dead, voters migrated to the Conservatives. We knew that, though. "But Dr David Jeffery, a senior lecturer in British Politics at the University of Liverpool, said there appeared to be no way back for populist parties on the right of politics. "Even Reform, the party to the right of the Conservatives with the most funding and media attention, without the galvanising issue of EU membership struggles to break past 6% in the polls," he said. "The party is over for UKIP." Many of those who voted for UKIP in the mid-2010s haven't gone away though. Instead, many of them switched to the Conservatives after former Prime Minister Boris Johnson promised to "get Brexit done". "We are now one of the only Western democracies to not have a successful populist party," said Matthew Goodwin, a professor of politics and the author of a book about UKIP's rise. "Much of this reflects how the Conservatives repositioned after Brexit to attract Nigel Farage's voters, though whether they can keep this force at bay, with rising immigration and a spiralling cost-of-living crisis, remains to be seen." " www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65538114I'd certainly call the Tories a populist party. They're willing to move to something indistinguishable from Blair type social democracy when it suits them (quantitative easing, the COVID furlough scheme) and also to swing wildly to the right when it seems beneficial (Brexit, immigration). Boris was the master at that. He's had more faces than a dodecahedron. They're shameless. Must be infuriating for Reform and UKIP members to see the Conservatives hijacking and claiming their policies, knowing they'll be ditched on a whim when the wind changes. Not that I feel sorry for any of the damaging bunch. |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 11, 2023 17:48:37 GMT
Interest rates up again, apparently inflation may not reduce as much as the government hoped. "The Bank now expects overall inflation - the rate at which prices rise - to drop to 5% by the end of this year, above the 4% previously predicted." www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65554797 |
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on May 13, 2023 15:00:55 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on May 14, 2023 17:34:53 GMT
"Currently, EU nationals who are legally resident in the UK can vote in local and devolved elections but not general elections. A Labour source said the party was thinking about proposals "that will enable people who live and contribute long-term to our society to be able to have their say in how the country is governed". The source said Sir Keir believes it is "fair and right" to give those people a voice in elections. But the source said the details of the proposals have not yet been decided, despite suggestions made in newspaper reports by the Financial Times and the Sunday Telegraph. There are an estimated 3.4 million EU nationals with settled status in the UK, and a further 2.7m with pre-settled status. Settled status allows EU citizen to continue to live, work and study in the UK on an indefinite basis, while pre-settled status is a grant of temporary residence for five years. The idea of extending the franchise to more EU nationals in the UK is controversial, with the Conservatives branding such a move "an attempt to rig the electorate to re-join the EU". When Sir Keir was running to be Labour leader in 2020, he said the "government should give all three million EU nationals living in the UK full voting rights in future elections". "We were never just 'tolerating' EU citizens living in this country - they are our neighbours, friends and families," Sir Keir wrote in an op-ed for the Guardian. "To see their status in doubt devastates our sense not just of justice but also of fellowship." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65590121 |
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Post by Gassy on May 14, 2023 19:34:23 GMT
"Currently, EU nationals who are legally resident in the UK can vote in local and devolved elections but not general elections. A Labour source said the party was thinking about proposals "that will enable people who live and contribute long-term to our society to be able to have their say in how the country is governed". The source said Sir Keir believes it is "fair and right" to give those people a voice in elections. But the source said the details of the proposals have not yet been decided, despite suggestions made in newspaper reports by the Financial Times and the Sunday Telegraph. There are an estimated 3.4 million EU nationals with settled status in the UK, and a further 2.7m with pre-settled status. Settled status allows EU citizen to continue to live, work and study in the UK on an indefinite basis, while pre-settled status is a grant of temporary residence for five years. The idea of extending the franchise to more EU nationals in the UK is controversial, with the Conservatives branding such a move "an attempt to rig the electorate to re-join the EU". When Sir Keir was running to be Labour leader in 2020, he said the "government should give all three million EU nationals living in the UK full voting rights in future elections". "We were never just 'tolerating' EU citizens living in this country - they are our neighbours, friends and families," Sir Keir wrote in an op-ed for the Guardian. "To see their status in doubt devastates our sense not just of justice but also of fellowship." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65590121I like the idea, but for me it’s got to have some requirements met. Eg, minimum 5 years lived in the UK |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 15, 2023 13:27:44 GMT
JRM at it again. 👀
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Post by oldie on May 15, 2023 13:35:00 GMT
Comedy gold. His stupidity in sharp relief |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 15, 2023 16:23:52 GMT
Comedy gold. His stupidity in sharp relief At least he's being honest, could do with more of that in politics. 😁🤭 |
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Post by oldie on May 15, 2023 18:14:22 GMT
Comedy gold. His stupidity in sharp relief At least he's being honest, could do with more of that in politics. 😁🤭 😂😂😂 Caught you looking |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 15, 2023 22:27:52 GMT
National Conservativism doesn't sound too good to me, shades of something from history with unfortunate consequences. I presume this guy has forgotten about Boris.
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