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Post by yattongas on Oct 20, 2023 12:19:52 GMT
You can't compare the UK government against North Korea. Which comparable countries/governments do you think they're performing better than? It also didn't really answer the question whether you actually think they're doing a good job? ...there are nearly 200 countries across the world, not sure why you and Oldie have chosen North Korea, Russia and Zimbabwe as your comparisons... ...is the UK government doing a better job than the Italian government? The Spanish government? The South African government? The Malaysian government? The Brazilian government? Depends on what criteria you measure/judge them. At the top level, the country's not bankrupt, the electricity, gas and water is still on, no one in invading us, there are still jobs for people who want to work and *slightly tounge-in-cheek* lots of people seem to want to live in the UK bypassing lots of comparable countries en-route.... Didn’t the UK write article 50 ? 🙄
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Post by Gassy on Oct 20, 2023 12:31:07 GMT
You can't compare the UK government against North Korea. Which comparable countries/governments do you think they're performing better than? It also didn't really answer the question whether you actually think they're doing a good job? ...there are nearly 200 countries across the world, not sure why you and Oldie have chosen North Korea, Russia and Zimbabwe as your comparisons... ...is the UK government doing a better job than the Italian government? The Spanish government? The South African government? The Malaysian government? The Brazilian government? Depends on what criteria you measure/judge them. At the top level, the country's not bankrupt, the electricity, gas and water is still on, no one in invading us, there are still jobs for people who want to work and *slightly tounge-in-cheek* lots of people seem to want to live in the UK bypassing lots of comparable countries en-route.... Because you said most countries. Most countries are in a shocking state and aren't comparable to the UK. Of the countries you've listed I'd only really compare us against Italy and Spain. And honestly, I think the current government is at least as bad as them.
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Post by yattongas on Oct 20, 2023 14:24:37 GMT
Wow A few Daily Mail headlines in that post What exactly did the EU do to "protect" itself from us? The Single Market is a protectionist structure. That's not a Daily Mail headline or a right-wing claim, it's the design of the whole thing. The single market was in general great for the UK and under the EEC/EC we had huge benefits for many years - but then it got tied into political union as it became the EU and that's where the issues started and a decision had to be taken. The biggest problem with the EU was Article 50 - they had never considered how a country could leave and (when one chose to) nearly every decision they took penalised the UK for leaving in economic ways, despite their political treaties saying they should treat close neighbours who were not members on favourable terms... This is a bit weird to say the least . You say the single market is a protectionist structure , but then you complain that EU is protecting its single market …..ie not giving us the benefits of membership even though we’ve left. Then saying they’ve done it for spiteful reasons . It’s a bit like the old analogy….. why won’t the golf club let me play for free now that I’ve stopped paying my membership fees ? 🙄
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 20, 2023 14:28:36 GMT
The Single Market is a protectionist structure. That's not a Daily Mail headline or a right-wing claim, it's the design of the whole thing. The single market was in general great for the UK and under the EEC/EC we had huge benefits for many years - but then it got tied into political union as it became the EU and that's where the issues started and a decision had to be taken. The biggest problem with the EU was Article 50 - they had never considered how a country could leave and (when one chose to) nearly every decision they took penalised the UK for leaving in economic ways, despite their political treaties saying they should treat close neighbours who were not members on favourable terms... This is a bit weird to say the least . You say the single market is a protectionist structure , but then you complain that EU is protecting its single market …..ie not giving us the benefits of membership even though we’ve left. Then saying they’ve done it for spiteful reasons . It’s a bit like the old analogy….. why won’t the golf club let me play for free now that I’ve stopped paying my membership fees ? 🙄 Or as someone put it, we are filing for divorce but keeping the dog, staying in the same house and demanding conjugal rights while playing the field.
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Post by yattongas on Oct 20, 2023 14:31:23 GMT
This is a bit weird to say the least . You say the single market is a protectionist structure , but then you complain that EU is protecting its single market …..ie not giving us the benefits of membership even though we’ve left. Then saying they’ve done it for spiteful reasons . It’s a bit like the old analogy….. why won’t the golf club let me play for free now that I’ve stopped paying my membership fees ? 🙄 Or as someone put it, we are filing for divorce but keeping the dog, staying in the same house and demanding conjugal rights while playing the field. I’m not putting Super in the loons basket yet but he’s moved a bit closer with that utter nonsense! 😂😀
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Post by yattongas on Oct 20, 2023 19:00:40 GMT
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Post by supergas on Oct 21, 2023 9:55:38 GMT
...there are nearly 200 countries across the world, not sure why you and Oldie have chosen North Korea, Russia and Zimbabwe as your comparisons... ...is the UK government doing a better job than the Italian government? The Spanish government? The South African government? The Malaysian government? The Brazilian government? Depends on what criteria you measure/judge them. At the top level, the country's not bankrupt, the electricity, gas and water is still on, no one in invading us, there are still jobs for people who want to work and *slightly tounge-in-cheek* lots of people seem to want to live in the UK bypassing lots of comparable countries en-route.... Didn’t the UK write article 50 ? 🙄 ...well it was written by John (now Lord) Kerr, as secretary-general of the European Convention - and he has freely admitted it was written to force out "...an authoritarian leader..." or a "...dictatorial regime..." - he and no one else in the higher echelons of the EU/EC ever considered a country would choose to leave and invoke it themselves...
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Post by yattongas on Oct 21, 2023 9:59:56 GMT
Didn’t the UK write article 50 ? 🙄 ...well it was written by John (now Lord) Kerr, as secretary-general of the European Convention - and he has freely admitted it was written to force out "...an authoritarian leader..." or a "...dictatorial regime..." - he and no one else in the higher echelons of the EU/EC ever considered a country would choose to leave and invoke it themselves... Guess he thought nobody would be that stupid .
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Post by supergas on Oct 21, 2023 10:18:56 GMT
The Single Market is a protectionist structure. That's not a Daily Mail headline or a right-wing claim, it's the design of the whole thing. The single market was in general great for the UK and under the EEC/EC we had huge benefits for many years - but then it got tied into political union as it became the EU and that's where the issues started and a decision had to be taken. The biggest problem with the EU was Article 50 - they had never considered how a country could leave and (when one chose to) nearly every decision they took penalised the UK for leaving in economic ways, despite their political treaties saying they should treat close neighbours who were not members on favourable terms... This is a bit weird to say the least . You say the single market is a protectionist structure , but then you complain that EU is protecting its single market …..ie not giving us the benefits of membership even though we’ve left. Then saying they’ve done it for spiteful reasons . It’s a bit like the old analogy….. why won’t the golf club let me play for free now that I’ve stopped paying my membership fees ? 🙄 Article 8 of the Lisbon Treaty mandates the EU to develop special relationships with neighbouring countries (and the UK meets that criteria by any definition I can think of). At first glance of the treaty you would assume that by 'special' they mean less regulations, more unique deals and arrangements, making life easier and cheaper for people and businesses on both sides of the relationship... ...not really how Brexit negotiations panned out was it...
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Post by yattongas on Oct 21, 2023 11:29:34 GMT
This is a bit weird to say the least . You say the single market is a protectionist structure , but then you complain that EU is protecting its single market …..ie not giving us the benefits of membership even though we’ve left. Then saying they’ve done it for spiteful reasons . It’s a bit like the old analogy….. why won’t the golf club let me play for free now that I’ve stopped paying my membership fees ? 🙄 Article 8 of the Lisbon Treaty mandates the EU to develop special relationships with neighbouring countries (and the UK meets that criteria by any definition I can think of). At first glance of the treaty you would assume that by 'special' they mean less regulations, more unique deals and arrangements, making life easier and cheaper for people and businesses on both sides of the relationship... ...not really how Brexit negotiations panned out was it... I’d argue the limited trade deal and the Windsor framework were ‘special’ . You simply can’t expect less regulations when we chose to leave , anyone with half a brain realised this would mean more paperwork, friction etc .
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Post by oldie on Oct 21, 2023 11:32:18 GMT
Article 8 of the Lisbon Treaty mandates the EU to develop special relationships with neighbouring countries (and the UK meets that criteria by any definition I can think of). At first glance of the treaty you would assume that by 'special' they mean less regulations, more unique deals and arrangements, making life easier and cheaper for people and businesses on both sides of the relationship... ...not really how Brexit negotiations panned out was it... I’d argue the limited trade deal and the Windsor framework were ‘special’ . You simply can’t expect less regulations when we chose to leave , anyone with half a brain realised this would mean more paperwork, friction etc . Indeed I could never, still cannot, understand why some thought it unfair that the EU withdrew the benefits of the single market, after we chose to leave that very same single market. Bizarre.
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Post by yattongas on Oct 21, 2023 11:33:40 GMT
I’d argue the limited trade deal and the Windsor framework were ‘special’ . You simply can’t expect less regulations when we chose to leave , anyone with half a brain realised this would mean more paperwork, friction etc . Indeed I could never, still cannot, understand why some thought it unfair that the EU withdrew the benefits of the single market, after we chose to leave that very same single market. Bizarre. I’ll tell you why ….. they’re all a bunch of bloody loons 🙄🇬🇧
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 21, 2023 13:49:42 GMT
...well it was written by John (now Lord) Kerr, as secretary-general of the European Convention - and he has freely admitted it was written to force out "...an authoritarian leader..." or a "...dictatorial regime..." - he and no one else in the higher echelons of the EU/EC ever considered a country would choose to leave and invoke it themselves... Guess he thought nobody would be that stupid . He didn't indeed, I remember an interview shortly after the referendum when that was exactly why.
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 21, 2023 13:53:35 GMT
This is a bit weird to say the least . You say the single market is a protectionist structure , but then you complain that EU is protecting its single market …..ie not giving us the benefits of membership even though we’ve left. Then saying they’ve done it for spiteful reasons . It’s a bit like the old analogy….. why won’t the golf club let me play for free now that I’ve stopped paying my membership fees ? 🙄 Article 8 of the Lisbon Treaty mandates the EU to develop special relationships with neighbouring countries (and the UK meets that criteria by any definition I can think of). At first glance of the treaty you would assume that by 'special' they mean less regulations, more unique deals and arrangements, making life easier and cheaper for people and businesses on both sides of the relationship... ...not really how Brexit negotiations panned out was it... There were also HMG intransigence, we could have looked at Turkey, Norway, Switzerland but May and Johnson had to balance the conflicting elements of the Conservative Party over what was best for the country, and some wanted WTO or else. The big mistake was seeing Brexit as an event rather than a process. For all her faults, May recognised that but Boris wanted victory.
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Post by yattongas on Oct 21, 2023 13:55:27 GMT
Guess he thought nobody would be that stupid . He didn't indeed, I remember an interview shortly after the referendum when that was exactly why. 🇬🇧……. Hold my 🍺 ! 🙄
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 21, 2023 20:10:50 GMT
Justin Webb will be pleased. 😃 "Jeremy Hunt is expected to stand down as an MP before the next election, according to senior Conservatives, who say the chancellor is aware he could suffer a “Michael Portillo” moment on polling day. Hunt has already put himself forward and been selected for the new Surrey constituency of Godalming and Ash, after his South West Surrey seat was dissolved and split into two under boundary changes. His spokesman said on Friday that his position remained that he would stand. But with his party in increasingly dire straits as byelection defeats mount up, and Labour’s poll lead solidifying, several senior sources nationally and locally have told the Observer that they expect him to announce he is stepping down much nearer to the election." www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/21/jeremy-hunt-set-to-quit-as-mp-in-fear-of-a-portillo-moment?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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Post by supergas on Oct 22, 2023 8:00:38 GMT
Article 8 of the Lisbon Treaty mandates the EU to develop special relationships with neighbouring countries (and the UK meets that criteria by any definition I can think of). At first glance of the treaty you would assume that by 'special' they mean less regulations, more unique deals and arrangements, making life easier and cheaper for people and businesses on both sides of the relationship... ...not really how Brexit negotiations panned out was it... I’d argue the limited trade deal and the Windsor framework were ‘special’ . You simply can’t expect less regulations when we chose to leave , anyone with half a brain realised this would mean more paperwork, friction etc . ...in terms of the Northern Ireland Protocol/Windsor framework, 'special' arrangements were required by the EU (not the UK) to not break the Good Friday Agreement but still protect the border under their requirements. At this (and every other UK border) the UK wants/needs no checks on goods coming from going to the EU - all the checks, all the regulations are from the EU side....
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Post by yattongas on Oct 22, 2023 8:12:34 GMT
I’d argue the limited trade deal and the Windsor framework were ‘special’ . You simply can’t expect less regulations when we chose to leave , anyone with half a brain realised this would mean more paperwork, friction etc . ...in terms of the Northern Ireland Protocol/Windsor framework, 'special' arrangements were required by the EU (not the UK) to not break the Good Friday Agreement but still protect the border under their requirements. At this (and every other UK border) the UK wants/needs no checks on goods coming from going to the EU - all the checks, all the regulations are from the EU side.... Obvs ….. because they have the single market that they want to protect it . What’s hard to understand about that ? Leave the club and you have checks on goods going and soon to be goods coming . Are we still seriously having this discussion 6 yrs later 🙄😂
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Post by yattongas on Oct 22, 2023 8:57:49 GMT
Nigel Farage claims he will be Tory leader by 2026. How do those on the right feel about this possibly happening? Would you be happy or concerned? Do you think this would be a good thing for the Tory party and do you think it would increase your chances of winning future elections?
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Post by oldie on Oct 22, 2023 9:09:20 GMT
Nigel Farage claims he will be Tory leader by 2026. How do those on the right feel about this possibly happening? Would you be happy or concerned? Do you think this would be a good thing for the Tory party and do you think it would increase your chances of winning future elections? That would break up the Tory Partyin my opinion.
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